Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Most probably performance reasons, or something is awry with the signalling and the disapatcher is struggling giving lock-ups/unresolvable red lights. Surely they would've tried very hard to get all the services running but ran into issues for maybe those issues above? Possibly something else though. Who knows.

 

I got it at a 30% discount, and routes seem to get sale discounts sooner after release than they used to. I'd see what reductions are available on the 16th.

 

As theorganist said, Suffragette is quite recent. Still, not all routes get the discounts at the same pace. Some get bigger discounts sooner than others. If you are a PC (Steam) player I would wait until September 16th. There is a sale event then and it will probably be discounted again.

 

That is what I suspect although I hoped that was a thing of the past. The TSC scenario editor would often throw a hissy fit and create conflicts.

 

I am going to say something that wont be popular. I am glad it has stopped at MKC and not Rugby. One thing I alway used to love when travelling the 390s was going through Rugby non stop. If the route stopped there it wouldn't feel right. Of course I also would of prefered to see the line through to Birmingham NS. Maybe that may be in the pipeline for coming out sometime. Also it would mean not stopping at MKC either and that would be even better in my eyes.

Maybe it's because of how long I have played train sims I just don't expect things being lifelike. Such as with ETS2. I have never driven up to Carlisle and gone through a tunnel on the M6 but in the game you do. I just overlook it and it's the same with TSW routes. I actually just not bother. too much about the scenery in the same way a lot of people would. The actual only thing that attracts me to TSW is the use of timetables. I spawn in somewhere and take the first train I see. So the Watford DC line does sound disappointing. hopefully there will be a patch to add more,

 

On the other hand, if you DO hold DTG to doing reworks instead of new content, you'll get a majority of the base whining about "not enough new content"... it's lose lose.

 

San Bernadino Line: 2 timetables
WCML: 0.5 timetables



(I don't begrudge our American friends at all actually, but San Bernadino looks good so far and the three routes should be made to a similar quality)

 

In a way, DTG has become a victim of its own success. One has the impression the company has grown perhaps too much, and it needs to churn them out at a high cadence just to stay afloat. For all the extra staff they have, the impression from the outside is they are understaffed in key areas, overstaffed in others, and for example lack industry expertise in core areas like Unreal Engine (or is it just poor staff retention?). Let's face it, the game is badly optimised on all platforms with no apparent plans to improve that going forward; the status quo seemingly just fine as long as the dough keeps rolling in.

 

Same! I'm on PS5 and I think it was in a sale with like 15% off once. I've just seen it is in the latest XBOX sale, so hoping when the next PS sales drop it'll also be in that.

 

Before the 700 came to TSW I was under the impression UK trains were mostly electrostars and a fleet mostly old or refurbished trains. UK routes are to me what DTG delivers so I will not notice. To me an overground every 90 minutes means that's how it is in real life. 350 is 4 units in real life for me because I saw it in TSW.

The only thing I will notice is the lighting but I don't play night services so probably won't be that disappointed with London at night.

Driving WMCL I will probably utter that UK players always oversell their routes as the railways in my country look way busier. So I changed my mind and hope DTG never builds a Belgian route or otherwise I have to apologise to everyone and explain that the route looks way better in real life than in TSW.

 

And I'd make a small bet the German route is better again.

The UK/WCML South looking to be the runt of the litter.

 

Marketing, Code, Community, art etc. All needed but who has the railway operating knowledge/experience? The earlier dispatching on red ls for instance should never have made it past the testing in early years. Signalling again on routes such as NTP were you can up to a red with no prior warning. No Ebula on German routes. No brake vehicles on some UK loco hauled formations (that's ok though as we are only doing multiple units from now on). That's without getting into bugs.

 

To be honest, the only scenery I found particularly bad was the section reused from Bakerloo (Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone)

 

To be fair the ETS2 dev team hadn't been along that stretch of M6 before making the game, they are also going to "fix" it when they update the UK scenery (though of course are spending most of their time doing new DLC and gradually fixing the older areas) - Promods and their map rework/expansion fix that issue anyway (which I'm sure you know about ) In a way it does draw a similarity to the older TSW routes which have been given new leases of life by modders (NTP, TVL, BML) and hopefully not setting a precedent but the Fife Circle patch too.

 

Well, I don't do XBOX Gamepass, but I just got a 3 month ultimate subscription for £6 from a grey market reseller, which is still £30 cheaper than actually buying TSW5 if the routes end-up being a disaster.

DTG support love it when I spam them with bug tickets anyway, so they'll be happy.

 

Yes and no, there are already third parties creating content for TSW. The core game needs to be fixed, it needs investment into that to give a more stable product going forward, otherwise creativity at DTG will grind to a halt anyway because they will just spend their time fixing bugs, they will add content and it will crash something else. It will just end up a unstable hot mess. Maybe the whole game at this point needs a complete new rebuild? Yes players will moan due to not enough content, but they are getting plenty of content now and they are complaining. Quality not quantity is what is needed. Maybe DTG need to hand over route creation to third party and from them to just concenrate on the core game itself, operate it like a franchise model, so they get a percentage without tying up their resources.

 

Exactly this. Scenery wise past harrow and before Queen’s Park looks good. Scenery is one of the better parts of this route apart from that area. It would be nice if DTG completely redid it

 

As I know Harrow and Wealdstone as it was my local station, I can tell you from first hand experience the station is way off the real thing, just google photos or you tube videos of the station, they even got the platform building upper section above the bricks the wrong colour, never mind the layout and that is TSW2 Bakerloo days, so good luck to DTG fixing it now, the whole route would need a remaster and I don't know if they will do one? Another member on here pointed out DTG got Wilsden wrong.

 

Exactly. Players complain ALREADY there's not enough content. Imagine ONLY third party content meaning maybe 1/3 of what it is now.
Temper tantrums galore.
Plus fixing bugs doesn't sell as well since most "bugs" are relatively minor and over 90% of players don't even notice them.
You say "quality".... but that's what people say about "Buy Local" too and yet how many discount stores are around selling cheap junk imports that break in a couple uses? Society as a whole favors "new" and "cheap" not "quality."

Not saying DTG doesn't have quite a bit of quality, but they are (like most businesses) offering what the customers are buying the most of.
The whole post title says it all to me "good enough" is the standard. Not "perfect."
And I think for DTG's mass playerbase, "good enough" is what they're getting.
If you keep the 80-90% happy, that's enough to stay in business even if the 10-20% are unsatisfied.

On an aside, if you think "handing over building to a third party" isn't going to be criticized too, go look at the Train Sim Classic forum next door. HUGE outcry about DTG "abandoning Train Sim Classic" and the "end times are near" because they aren't building routes and only supporting the core game in house.

 

They got willseden and Wembley very wrong considering it’s one of the selling points of the route

 

They got Wembley wrong as well? Ok, maybe we need to work backwards, what did they get right?

 

The sky?

 

I can confirm that when there have been lean periods of content release, there has been much disgruntlement on here about lack of new content. Then the conspiracy theories start to form as to why!

 

Easily solved; DTG fix the trillion annoying bugs whilst 3rd party devs build new routes and locos for a while. Also "whining" is how you end up with the better game - example free core update this year. So don't shoot the messenger.

 

You go to McDonalds, it has a certain standard, they are done though a franchise system and certain levels have to be met or kept to hold on to the franchise. DTG need to bite bullet and fix what is wrong in the game either by working on the core or rebuilding a new game, a good time to use unreal 5.3 or whatever. Fixing bugs doesnt make money, but it stops DTG losing money because they do not have to spend as much time on fixes, but it doesn't give them money now and now is probably important, but they shouldn't be doing it at the cost of the player base by offering a dodgy product, people will only put up with that for so long and DTG can only bla bla bla for so long before people stop believing them.

 

Ask them on the TSC forum how well they like that solution.
They're convinced that TSC will soon cease to exist because it's been "abandoned by DTG"
=-)

 

You can exclude Rivet Games from that idea.... Letting them touch anything only creates more problems.

 

Biggest beef is not the scenery rather the lighting which returns London to the blitz, the 710 timetable of one service every 90 minutes instead of 15 and the 350 lacking 8 car trains. I'd call the scenery cherry picking!

 

TSC is doing better without DTG!

 

Yes I forgot to mention that - have them fixing their own bugs instead, should keep them quiet for 10 years. Though to be fair their trains aren't too bad.

 

Well at least everyone can make and sell content for TSC, as the tools are available for everyone. Unlike TSW, where the Public Editor is a stripped down version, and you need to sign a contract with DTG to get access to the full tools, support, and being able to export your route into the game.

If trainsimcz hadn't given the community the option to cook files, we'd have no custom timetables or scenery enhancements, and be victim of DTG's gatekeeping.

 

In all fairness as I said earlier past Wembley the scenery really improves massively. It’s a shame DTG just copied and pasted BKL

 

Mmmmmmm are we sure?

 

Yeah, copy and paste saves money, but does nothing for the product.

 

Anyone hoping DTG even gives a response on this before release needs to give their head a wobble. Alex's post was merely to try to calm people down. I doubt we'll even see suspension on the 350 before the new year.

More than happy to eat my words, and in a way, I kind of hope I do.

 

DTG will only give a well edited, well timed measured strategic response that is to their advantage and not the players. DTG will only pedal positive stuff about their product and will gloss over any short cummings.

 

Just don't use the "Light Clouds" (40%) preset. Stay below it. Lighting is worst between 40% and 50% cloud cover in daytime.

When choosing dynamic weather, the Light Clouds preset will default to 33% clouds initially, which is better.

 

Agreed. I think the reason why most of the 350 services are 4 cars is because they only made the 350/1, of which there are 30 units, so they might potentially have to duplicate numbers to have all the trains as 8 coaches. They should have made the 350/2 as well.

 

I honestly think the decision to not have all 4 variants for such a busy route is quite pathetic.

 

Holy LOVE the amount of entitlement here is amazing.
99% of people wouldn't even NOTICE if all the 350 sets were the same number of cars.
Obsessing over the inconsequential....
If there were no 350 at all.. or it didn't move... or if it were missing doors... THOSE would be "pathetic."
Simply whining about the car counts?
Yeah that would go under the heading of "pathetic."

 

Right, okay calm down 'operator'
Right I don't have a problem if they are to duplicate and that and just use /2/3/4 as same variant wouldn't bother me but I hope 8 car services are included

 

Well you have a problem.
But is it actually a problem?
Let's be kind and call it "exaggerating" on your part a WEE bit.

 

Yea probably is mate.

 

As a point of interest, DTG have never said that this route was developed and built by Rivet (though it seems to be acknowledged that they had a part to play) so we have to blame DTG for the shortcomings of the route and comparisons to the high quality of the Goblin Line, rather than the less than acceptable Fife Circle, are completely justified.

 

That’s two points

 

Just want to say, reflecting after ages of all of us bashing WCML out. Are we being too brutal. I just want to cut it down.
Again, I am very grateful that WCML South is coming to TSW, my most requested and loved route with the 390 and 350 being my Fav 2 trains.
My Grudges;
Distance. I understand why, mainly focused for the 350 but why not for 390 as well? I would of accepted Rugby. Milton Keynes still very good. We get depot and lots more. What will make me forget the distance is the immersion of the route, being able to Get off at MK from a 390 and then hop onto a 350 or another 390 or just watch trains flashing by. Goes same with 710 and the UNderground. So many services and should be no gaps at all!
If rivet are to be involved. I just 'hope' they have done a good job but I just don't see why DTG would do that!
But overall I am very excited to drive this route on Thursday 12th! Shame I don't get all my content till 17th but Oh well as I am on PS5!

 

To put it simply, it isn't realistic. Most 350 services on the WCML operate 8 cars at least. Maybe a very few 12 cars, though I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

Any word from DTG yet on whether all this is being heard?

 

Nothing at all i’m afraid

 

Thanks Matthew. Been away from the devices for 24hrs.. trying to catch up and was hoping there'd been some good news. Appreciate the response.