Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Idk if no news on the dc timetable is good news or bad news.

 

I suspect the timetable issues are much more involved. I still wonder if there is a technical reason for the gaps.

 

Historically that optimism has more often than not proved to be misplaced. I wish it were not so..

 

Until its there in a patch, it's just words. History has taught us that.

 

What a joke.. No off map destinations in a 2024 TSW5 route??!

I cannot believe that this is an issue. I don’t care who made the timetable, those should not be left out. What an absolute immersion killer, for me at least. If Rivet really did make the timetable, then I don’t understand how DTG thought it was okay to give the timetable a green light with it missing so so many services, and off map destinations.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I really don't know. I don't know the process of compiling the timetable.
I remember them saying class 700 services would crash bml but I've not had any problems with the mod that is available.
I hope it will be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

The announcement next week regarding the MUCH needed fixes will determine if I order even the standard edition or not.

 

Just don't fall for the "x will be rolled out in an upcoming patch" line. Without a date its just an empty phrase to be included in your DTG Bingo home edition game. Happy to be proven wrong..

 

This is really starting to give me Trenton vibes where they included all the Amtrak services but only a fraction of the NJ Transit because they basically ran out of time. That was eventually fixed mostly thanks to Joe but it took a loooong time.

Again we don't know for sure what the final product is so I am cautiously optimistic that it was just a in progress timetable.

 

I don't blame LNWR in the slightest for wanting to remove their name from this mess...

 

The mod is pc only so they would also need to test on consoles to see how well it works

 

Nothing in the Q&A from Alex about the dreadful lighting, in tunnels and at night or the alternate light and dark coach exteriors at Euston. Or the general poor route building indicative of Rivet being involved.

Complete silence on the DC line timetable gaps oh and the lack of 8 car formations on the outer suburban. Then the thread got locked.

My mind has been made up now. Going to sit back, take the free update and wait for a deep sale in the winter or next spring.

 

It should be ready for TSW6, just as the suspension is (almost) ready for TSW5 despite being touted for TSW4 etc.
I'm not seeking to point score. Just pointing out a cautious approach is better than an optimistic one when it comes to DTG delivery.

Broadly consumers can be split into a few categories at this point. Choices will largely be based upon which category they fall into. I suspect only marginal demographic changes between these groups and the relative size of them means no meaningful change will occur.
Just an opinion.

 

There are huge chunks of services missing from the timetable, the Bakerloo timetable seems to use the same one from TSW 2 which was barren and there were no 710 AI services during the Lioness part of the preview stream where there should have been at least 2 in the opposite direction since it's a quarterly hour service. That combined with PIS with no off-world destinations is poor and amateurish for a flagship route.

I can only assume that Rivet games were responsible for this mess of a timetable.

 

Hopefully that is the case.

 

First I just want to say thanks for Alex for the communication, I am sure we all know and agree none of this is on him, or in fact a lot of the faces we associate with DTG and that they have been told exactly what they can or can't say. With that out of the way that post said so much whilst saying nothing useful at all, all the key glaring issues and questions have been pushed aside just to tell us there will be all stop services. Bloody hell DTG, I have no more words.

 

Absolutely incredible how they managed to answer so many questions while addressing almost none of the community's concerns.

 

We've not heard anything from Dovetail for nearly a week why can't they come out and explain what's happening

 

Would be nice if the gaping holes in the timetable were addressed tbh

 

Very telling how DTG are managing to answer none of the community’s most important questions. How can you claim to be listening to community feedback and then proceed to address nonsense questions that nobody is asking?

 

"Here is a list of answers to questions none of you were actually asking, apart from the off map destination one".

What is the saying about what isn't said is as revealing as what is (if not more so)!

Still going to wait and see what the early access players say about the state of the route come release on the 12th and if it really was a final build being played in the stream, even though it was implied it was not...

 

Their market model effectively demands it. I loath it just as much as you but I think they are probably unable to change course given their organisational structure/and or business strategy.
Incremental movement is about all I hope for these days, which is why I so enthusiastically embrace the core update being free move, then almost as vociferously decry the self defeating release of a sub standard route alongside a deadline for that free update..

You really couldn't make up a more cack-handed situation..

 

Absolutely.

 

I liked how someone asked if the route goes to Clapham Junction. That would have been cool to be honest and would give us something new to do with the Class 377 and LO.
It says something about questions from the stream... I think they are not to be adressing stuff from the forum. That would explain why none of the concerns here have been adressed.
I think the big problem here is, that DTG always underwhelms players... DTG used to be good at delivering more than expected in the past with TSC routes. Just like others have said: the route to Birmingham in TSC or even stuff like the Leipzig extension in TSC including the S-Bahn City tunnel.
I really think DTG need to start doing this with TSW.... take some more time, heck, even make the route more expensive and take it to Rugby (including Northampton Loop) and maybe even to to Clapham Junction. Same goes for Frankfurt-Fulda. It´s a solid announcement, but looking closer it´s also the bare minimum. No S-Bahn tunnels, no diverging route via Frankfurt-Ost, no Frankfurt Airport.
Why can´t they suprise players and create some "wow" effect? At least with the flagships routes? I guess someone from DTG might answer: "it´s too much work, we can´t do it". Well, that´s back to old question we have discussed in the past: why even start a new franchise, that seems to be so complicated, that most devolpers struggle to build long routes or proper networks with it?

 

Again players still can't get their head around the idea that an individual is not the company, they may act as its representative, but that's it. Alex & Matt seem to be a really nice, but they are not your personal friend, they are just an employee working for DTG as nice as they are. They will not take offence if you complaining about TSW, it is just a job, pays the bills or not.

 

Definitely seems like the TSW business model is treading towards the TSC model where they let third parties handle the ultra-realistic routes and trains while they just pump out average to below average DLC along with a new "game" every year. I would like to see the timetable overhauled on WCMLS though. The community complained about New York-Trenton long enough that DTG eventually gave in and contracted Joe to do a proper realistic timetable. This was despite DTG saying there were no plans to change the timetable in the months after initial release. So persistency can pay off. The overwhelmingly negative review rating on Steam probably also helped.

I wouldn’t be surprised if TSW5 sales go down compared to TSW4 because the core update is free now. I guess DTG think getting all past TSW players on the new platform is going to improve future DLC sales? Personally, I'll probably pickup the deluxe bundle when it inevitably is 80% off in next years Steam summer sale like every other TSW core bundle has been.

 

I knew well from Alex's statement when he used the word "if" in the something might be done before launch sentence, nothing was going to be done, told everybody on here. So, basically in true DTG fashion, the new version of TSW will arrive this autumn a hot mess as it did last year and still is. AND PLAYERS ARE EXPECTED TO BUY IT...WHY? I AM CONFUSED?

 

All I can say is congratulations to DTG / Rivet / whoever was involved in throwing together this route.
You've managed to take all the hype and praise from the UK playerbase that came from the Direct and completely turn it upside down. May God help you if the other routes turn out similarly.

 

Likely wouldn't work on the older consoles that have a reduced timetable anyway but shouldn't be a problem for current gen.

 

Desperation, boredom, half baked timetables.

CHOOSE YOUR BUNDLE!

 

DTG are the same company that did TSC so why would TSW be different. The WCML South for TSC came out with some big issues. Deja vu anyone?

 

Probably because the old franchise couldn't be put on consoles.

 

Aligning with the DTG model for a moment, consider the following..

Lighting upgrade DLC
Timetable enhancement DLC
Better Bushes DLC
Passenger Announcements DLC
Better Tunnels DLC
Reverb Enhancements DLC
Better Audio DLC

Edit-
Better Cars DLC
Better Shadows DLC

Etc etc
The funny thing is, I'd probably buy a few of those..

 

Poor route building = rivet games? Dtg also have routes where they have poor route building.

 

But here's the issue for me, it shouldn't be a post release update any more than the Suspension update coming after release, the PIS is standard now, has been for a while. That it's still being missed is LOVE.

 

My advice, save your money and wait until the updates are out, it took almost a year for Suspension to be added to TSW4 stock.

 

Regarding pis, how come dtg can't put the actual destination, yet a mod for bml has Thameslink services showing Luton etc...

 

Oh Decisions...Decisions, spoilt for choice which do I choose???

 

If you actually analyse the routes recently, the majority in TSW are formulaic. usually single in length, with one new loco and usually inheriting or bundled with previous locos. It's all done to minimise the outlay.

Look at Semmeringbahn and Rosenheim/Salzburg, in essence nearly identical in formula, its just one has a mountainous pass, but they are both roughly the same length (68vs89km) have one new loco and both use rehashed stock from earlier routes.

What's happened to branching? It's either a long, slightly boring route or a very short commuter one. Lirr was probably the most interesting but is not very consumer friendly with its constant stop start safety measures.

 

People here constantly gloss over this, just take a look at London-Brighton!

 

Because they're incapable of showing even a micron of respect to the community.

 

This does not inspire much confidence tbh.
After much hesitation, I pre-ordered the deluxe edition a couple of days ago, with the hope things would be improved before release.
If this is not the case, I'm cancelling my pre-order until the notoriously flimsy promise of "post launch improvements" actually comes to fruition.

Delay the game and sort yourselves out. Come back when the half-arsed Rivet route is actually up to DTG standards.

 

Yes, there is a trend developing here, can you guess what it is? The new norm now is for DTG is to deliver TSW in sub par state and BECAUSE PLAYERS KEEP pre ordered the game, DTG will keep doing it, simple.

 

With no disrespect to Alex or JD the response is really still quite inadequate. They know quite nicely where the issues and concerns lie, in fact they walked in with eyes open by giving a green light to releasing in that state.

Sorry to be cynical but really just more PR "mindspeak" to try and contain those who might be wavering about cancelling the preorder or not bothering with it.

 

A simple yes/no question for the DTG team (Matt would be best as the Exec Producer putting his name to this, but also JD or Alex, given they speak on behalf of DTG as a whole):

Do you think WCML is in a fit state ready for release?

 

The carefully well worded response from DTG delivered by Alex, JD, John or Mary or whoever (again representatives of the company DTG NOT an individuals) This statement probably took DTG several inhouse meetings to arrive at what they came back with and it basically states they have no answer to the problems this side of launch, if DTG made a space shuttle would you get on it? They assume they could pedal their unfinished producted, bull their way through the TSW player base as they always seem to and get away with it as they do every year, but well done to everyone who spotted the problems. Now the shoe is on the other foot, rather than us blindly handing over our money to find out DTG what a mess TSW is in and then we have to wait months for THEM to fix it. NOW WE CAN HOLD ON TO OUR MONEY AND MAKE DTG WAIT TILL THE GAME IS PATCHED... AND THAT ARRANGEMENT THEY WON'T LIKE!!!!

 

I think you already know the answer to that.

 

My interpretation of the fact it's not in the FAQ is that it's one of the things they're currently looking at. The OG services are after all one of the selling points of the route; to put in a half-baked timetable would not be a commercially sound idea.