Wcml South - Not Good Enough

I hope so, it is the main reason I wanted wcml.

 

I think DTG can see if they make false statements or false promises regarding the WCML it will backfire so badly their reputation will be as bad as Rivets and I'm sure, that secretly, behind closed doors they do not want that badge either. As I've said it's not ideal to have noticable errors in a game that no one has even set hands on yet, but I'm hoping next week's statement will be reassuring and I'm willing to give DTG the benefit of the doubt at the moment, as for me personally I've never really felt let down by their products in the past. (I speak for myself but I think the suspension improvements were well intended but they didn't anticipate how tricky it would be to master and made a promise they lived to regret). The only exceptions I've felt deflated with DTGs products is with them creating routes that have so much potential but lack the AI necessary to bring it to life, such as Glossop or Birmingham Cross City...

They've read the vast amount of completely valid criticism and errors in this thread, and its begining to sound like a broken record now, so for me I'm going sit back and see what next week brings and go from there. It sounds like a statement specific to the criticism will be made. So for now I'm on the fence until I see what that brings.

 

More 350s DLC
More London Overground services DLC

 

I know that I'm probably in the minority as I am used to the cost of flight simulator add-ons but I would 100% spend the same amount for the deluxe pre-order for just the WCML if the WCML was that long and obviously included all the 350 variants.

 

Exactly, when DTG gave the convenient excuse for not putting a 700 timetable on BML they used the "it'll crash and blow up", yet not long after we go a very busy 700 timetable by a modder and it runs as smooth as a baby's bottom. So treat excuses with caution, what they probably mean to say is "it'll cost us too much time and money". Treat what they say as politician speak.

 

I have to wonder if even Gen 9 consoles are holding things back with their RAM situation, Gen 8 for sure is and should've been dropped by now, they were underpowered in 2013 and its just ridiculous that DTG are insistent on supporting them in 2024. Most PC gamers have at least 16GB of system RAM and 8GB of VRAM, The Series X and PS5 after their OSs are taken into account have around 12-13.5GB of total RAM to work with.

 

Jesus, stop giving them ideas, they're bad enough

 

Treat what DTG say as a politician? You mean they lie [Removed insult - DTGHarry]

 

Yep Rockstar stopped last gen consoles for GTA 5 but DTG won't do that they said they will continue to support last gen which is ridiculous

 

The only thing culled from the Gen 8 timetable is freight services, there is no way with double the RAM that Gen 9 can't handle a full timetable. Besides the minimum spec for TSW is 8GB of RAM and 2GB of VRAM, sure it won't look pretty, but that's considerably less RAM than Gen 9.

The reality is timetables in TSW take a lot of work, adding more and more trains in and then resolving issues as they crop up, I suspect they added stuff in until they hit some dispatcher issues relating to the 'choke point' outside Euston station, and rather than put in the time to make it work they just stopped adding in the rest of the services.

Sadly DTGs definition of 'good enough' is a considerably lower benchmark than that of their customers.

 

Money talks, even gen 8 money.

 

I’ve just had a look back at part of the WCML preview stream and it’s interesting that at 44:40, Matt says that there is “quite” an extensive timetable for the 710. It remains to be seen what that actually means.

 

When DTG drops 8th gen consoles you will see a lof of PC gamers on here complain because their systems won't be supported anymore as well.

 

That's evolution, in TSC world where everything is heavily modified on my install there is no way I could run it on my PC 10 years ago, despite it basically being a updated version of the same core game.

 

Yes I agree, I don't think we will see much at all if before release but I am sure they will improve the route after. They have done so in the past, I remember the anger over the fencing and ballast on SEHS.

They clearly know what the feeling of the forums is and they won't ignore it and aren't ignoring it.

 

I built my current pc for the demands of specific games back when..
I'll build my next pc pretty soon to meet the requirements of 1 specific title, but with some others in mind. TSWx will easily fall into its capabilities because at no point will it become next gen dependant, the only caveat being specific hardware efficiencies.
Upgrading hardware is just a part of life for dedicated gamers or simmers.

 

Sure but I first need to see a TSW version that matches my expectations of a true PS5 console game. Why would a PC version be held back by consoles? There is no law that says you can't build a higher end version for PC. On console we are used to see the same games perform way better on PC because of an optimised version for PC.

 

My series x runs fine with a full timetable

 

Going to the questions of F & Q.

Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla, Bla nonsense. To make this even bizarre, most of the questions there were asked in the stream funny enough. I generally feel for Matt, Alex and possibly JD as well, I wouldn't think it's in their nature to let us down being they're doing the best they could, but someone clearly higher than them wants this to happen regardless.

 

I guess all we can do now is wait until next week. We've made our points abundantly clear.

 

I think all of the questions that Alex addressed were from chat field in the WCML Stream video.

I saw no reference to the valid points being made in this made in this thread.

As if by pure coincidence I had a Blu-ray arrive this morning that I picked up about the WCML and the 390 from the drivers eye. I compared it with the Stream and the first thing I will say is that Euston, once off the platform and it's surrounding building are a lot dirtier and a lot darker than seen in the DTG version. Even in day light, the video was set on a sunny day with light cloud at 12.30pm. DTG's WCML, It is too bright during the day, and way too dark at night, you would think London has no street lighting and what it does have are stark crisp spot lamps. A couple of the guys commenting from Train Sim Community commented here about the lighting. There needs to be some hidden flares in the scenery with softer light. The sky should not be black, light pollution is everywhere in London.

The stations on route are not right. I will check again.

 

I've long thought and sometimes said that it would be nice to see a pc only version that really let rip with the possibilities..

 

One every hour instead of 90 minutes?

 

Yeah I'd agree. The TSW5 launch trailer was really nice, very professionally done. Whoever is responsible for that is a DTG asset. It must be frustrating and not a little disheartening to see that effort and excellent work undone by a very poor follow up reveal for the WCML route.
Accountability where its due, likewise credit.

 

If Sony bought DTG you would say "why can't we get such a good looking sim on PC?"

 

I don't think I understand..
Tbh, it would just be nice to have time and effort invested in a product that then becomes the benchmark of success. Atm DTG hasn't got the external competition to push it, and it probably suffers now from organisational inertia such that it couldn't respond if it had to.

 

I thought the same. They have purposely swerved the points & questions raised in this thread. Very disappointing to say the least!

 

You suggested a PC only version so I understood PC exclusive. I meant an optimised version of the same game but that is probably what you also meant. A game that is dedicated to your platform will always excel over multiplatform. PS5 exclusives always look so much better than multiplatform games.

 

And when the person ostensibly responsible for presenting the turd on the best light possible hasn't got a great mastery of the subject matter, the order of presentation or indeed the salient direction of a script, then that turd really does end up looking a little underwhelming.
It would have been so easy to pick a run, or time of day that presented the least worst options, and then drilled down on the good.
What is it they say? Prior Preperation and Planning Prevents a Piss Poor Performance..

 

Yeah that's what I meant. I was being a bit dense trying to unpick the Sony link.. sometimes I look for layers where none exist (no pun intended but I like it.).

 

Absolutely baffling how so many basic issues exist on a new game launch.

 

That's because over the past seven years and five iterations of the game, core problems haven't been properly addressed, design flaws not corrected. The game binaries still read "Prototype" after all, changing the name require re-baking of every and all assets and their references.
So bugs have accumulated, are still being ignored and DLC just abandoned.
Development on UE to DTG's standard of "ultimate in realism" seems much more complicated, time consuming and expensive. Deadlines and budgets rule, and a large part of the clientele doesn't seem to care, glad they can play with trains using their thumbstick controllers.
What wonders me, is the focus DTG's new owner Focus Entertainment has or has not given DTG's management with a clear path to a much improved version of the game instead of more of the same half finished mess that shows an absence of Quality Assurance at the company level. Leaving everything to the paying customers to report, sort out, wait for and get angry over, ultimately resulting in disappointment, rejection and abandoning the game. Unfortunately, the competition in the guise of SimRail and others haven't yet made sufficient impression and inroads to really put pressure on DTG's management to finally get their act together.

Free TSW5 upgrade for me, and I'll see how it goes from there. I vote with my wallet for quite some time already when it comes to TSW.

 

In short, everything is clear with you, DTG - see you at the Summer Steam Sales 2025 with an 80% discount, then we'll talk, aphahah. Don't expect money from me, as well as from other British, German and American fans.

 

Yeah everyone knows trains are driven with keyboard and mouse

 

Have just rewatched the stream and looked at the figures displayed

The screen shows
Total services - 690
350 - 244
377 - 36
710 - 219 - which would be about right for the 15 minute service (4 trains each way x 18 hours is 144) plus depot moves for both DC and NLL lines via Euston.
390 - 49, but when they show the timetable list its showing about 60 for each of the 9 & 11 cars - but its around 30 5-10am and 30 for rest of day.

I think that they may have pushed out a basic timetable for the stream that would allow them to show AI traffic during the AM peak.

If there is more to be added than what was shown, then just tell us.

 

Even if free, it still is a sold item technically.

Baffling only if you're new to the franchise... best to keep your expectations low at all times.

 

When the announcement came about TSW5 and the inclusion of WCML for the UK I was thrilled. I added the Deluxe version into my Steam basket, but did not order because was on holiday. Then I found out the line finished at Milton Keynes, I was disappointed, the USA and German content does not really interest me. I then scaled down to the Regional UK version.
Now I'm waiting till all of the DTG Ambassadors have their copies and have filled Youtube with their video content to see for myself how WCML turns out post launch before I order anything. I really hope that DTG take on board the comments made in this thread and make at least some positive steps to fix things

I have a feeling it will be the Free Version I finally settle for, then wait for what I am sure will be the DLC of TSW5, West Coast Main Line: Preston - Carlisle.

 

And that's the good side of it - they're not forcing the new "core" routes on you now. You can decide to just get the new core and continue shopping as normal, only buying what you like.

 

Just to point out the number of 710 services is across ALL routes. So that 219 includes the 154 from Goblin.

 

DTG won't ignore the forum, but if players are still silly enough to give them money for this broken piece of ****, then good luck.

 

Thank you, DTG need to read this!!!

 

Ah yes, the 7 P's!!! Polishing the turd is one thing, trying to make the turd look good on a live stream is another, the funny thing is they got caught with their pants down so to speak and unlike previous years players only found out about this stuff after they buy the version of TSW and we are usually left with a broken train sim. Now players can make their informed choice....NOT TO BUY!!!! TILL TSW IS READY?!?!

 

Only if you guys promise to stop spamming the San Bernardino threads with WCML talk.

 

I highly doubt that. I've never seen a PC player complain about a castrated timetable because their computer can't handle the full one.

 

You're probably right about the route itself, but the timetable update will likely take a considerable amount of time, if they do it at all. The NYT timetable took many months to bring up to an acceptable standard, courtesy of Joethefish.

 

Agreed. I was recently playing on an 8 year-old machine, well below spec. It ran perfectly, barely even stuttered. Even with the graphics card removed it ran with no drop in performance. Ultimately I had to stop playing because the game started detecting it wasn't supported and refused to open rather than because it actually couldn't run. I don't know how they come up with the required specs for this game but it doesn't seem to correlate to what it actually takes to run the game, at least in my experience.

 

it took about 7 months for the updated NYT which Now has one of the best timetables in the game

 

Yes, but don't forget that the NYT timetable eventually had both a regular and a low fat version which were selectable on all platforms I believe.

 

I highly doubt there are many PC gamers left using slow by 2013 standards hardware. As an example the PS4 and Xbox One have roughly the same CPU processing power as an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, a processor that was launched in 2007, and they have similar graphical horsepower to AMDs Integrated Vega 8 Graphics found on their 3-4 generation old Laptop APUs.

 

The PS5 can handle the London Commuter timetable with ALL trains for the route active without issue. When the route first launched, the PS5 did stumble and there were lots of crashes, but it seems stable enough now. As such, the PS5 should be able to handle the full timetable for ALL trains included in the WCML route.