Wcml South - Not Good Enough

Because it functions the same as the /4.

 

IT DOES NOT ITS A DUAL VOLTAGE TRAIN. /4 IS 3RD ONLY.

for god sakes i am really tired of people like these trash talk about the electrostar when they clearly have their differences. Please do your research.

 

My hope is that the modders that rescued Fife Circle, will also take this route on. They are all legends in my opinion. The Fife Circle timetable in particular is way better than Rivets and has been updated more than once to improve it. The timetable is the worst thing about WCMLS so would be great if the modders do take it on. Won’t help my PS5 though.

 

If I knew how to begin modding in TSW I'd gladly try it out and help if I could. I've developed on other platforms but never done much with UE / Train Sim World. If knew where to get started I could happily go from there, so if anyone involved in modding would be so kind as to point me in the right direction with making mods for TSW I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

1000%

 

as always thank you for taking the time to come on here JD, for what it's worth i have a lot of respect for what the likes of yourself, Matt and Alex amongst others do here.

in this case i'll hold off on cancelling my £54 deluxe pre-order, although as i've said before as i only drive UK routes, everything rests on the WCML offering for me.

if the timetable concerns that myself and so many others have raised are addressed then perfect, although as i've said before routes are made or broken by the timetable mode offering, so unless the WCML concerns do get adressed early next week i have no choice but to cancel my pre-order and hope for improvements down the line.

but i'll remain hopeful nonetheless, thanks again JD for the updates!

 

My last Rivet based comment, but if this has been outsourced to Rivet expect any updates to be a one off, post release update and then abandon it... That is what really concerns me with their track record.

 

Small question to gauge a kind of community response? How many of you would actually care that a 350/1 model was masquerading as the /2, /3 and /4 assuming the /2 numbered units had the correct London Midland transitional livery? Or would the detail differences between the variants be too much to ignore? I went to sanity check and APs Class 350 EP for TSC uses the 450 as its base so all units have 3rd rail shoes which are only present on the /1s and I don't remember that getting too much backlash for the decision.

 

Can't buy this route until the Euston lighting is fixed. Several other problems, but that is the main one IMO. How all carriages bar one, which is glowing, can be dark is shocking...

 

I know you did a TVL route timetable, do you know how easy/difficult it would be for DTG/Rivet (whoever wrote the timetable) to correct the PIS and show services off map?

 

It would be so nice if DTG added a section for Creators Club where you could upload and download custom timetables so consoles could experience them.

 

Which to be fair will still run on the free version of TSW5 as I can’t see it needing any layers from WCML South.
Likewise WCML Over Shap which will be the other route, along with the Dutch offering that I’m really looking forward to.

 

Already asked them with no answers just yet...

Anticipating next week now!

 

Yeah I couldn't resist TSW4 because I was seduced by all the core updates, but the radio silence from DTG regarding (most of) the big WCML community feedback issues does not bode well for TSW5's launch. If they stated those issues would be fixed in a day 1 patch or very soon after, that would be fair enough, but the silence is deafening (and frustrating).

 

You don’t. They’re missing.

 

Thank you JD for the update.
I honestly don't think anybody expects the big issues to be fixed day one, but a commitment to address the community’s concerns over things like the OG timetable and others would be most appreciated. I know we complain and make a lot of noise, but all anybody wants for this route is for it to achieve its full potential.

 

Yeah it's pretty easy. Would take me maybe two hours to add new off map destinations for everything on Fife?
Steps 1-2 only need to be done for each new off map destination, so Birmingham new street for example.
Steps 3-5 need to be done on every portal command. Which is literally selecting the stations from a dropdown list for each portal command. If the portals have the same stopping patterns you can even control click select them to apply to more than one.


1.
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4.
5.

 

Regardless of please be constructive requests, it's difficult to possibly invest more money into TSW products. JTs offering looks great, however I already have Preston To Carlisle on TSC which I have 86s for, a freeware 85, not to mention 156s, 150s, 101s , 31s, 37s, 47s, etc and a full selection of mk1 and mk2 rolling stock (including buffets). To invest in the DTG routes now would be madness, my TSC install looks great (last night flew out of Carlisle heading north behind and 86 with a set of Mk3s in IC). I have yo yo,d between TSW and TSC and now TSW latest core updates is a guard mode which I have no interest in and some photo options. Where is the update to the Signalling system so it can behave like a proper railway operation. Why is the save system a lottery and has one slot only. When the fun stops as they say.

TSW had so much potential. Its now lost in a sea of negativity. I really enjoyed it at first and have dipped back in. But it really feels so restrictive and that's a big negative in my eyes.

 

I am aware of the differences between the two subclasses, thank you very much.

But on BML, the pantograph has no purpose as the entire route is 3rd rail, its therefore purely cosmetic. So with that, what can the /2 offer on the route that the /4 can't?

I'm not "trash talking" the electrostar, just pointing out why the /2 on BML is pointless when it doesn't use its pantograph on it.

And, next time, be more polite with the tone of your posts.

 

I mean technically it would be more correct for the services that are timetabled to MKC but that is really splitting hairs at that point.

 

I will be buying it regardless

 

I've not watched the preview, one thing I've noticed with rivets routes, is that the signals only go clear when you lock the doors! Anyone noticed anything like this?

 

That's down to the timetable. Not using the "Dispatch Beyond" Command properly.

 

I'm not sure why DTG haven't put Rivet in the corner with the safety scissors and glitter with their track record let alone for a flagship route

 

Could I say that it's a mistake to compare WCMLS to SB. They really are apples and oranges.

SB is a mostly straight, single track route with fairly simple track work and runs through a semi-rural landscape for much of its length. It doesn't really have any new rolling stock, and has a sparse timetable with almost no passing AI, just a few well-planned meets.

WCMLS, in the other hand, has a minimum 4-track layout which, like BML, has extensive track work running through a suburban cityscape. It has a couple of new trains with a much busier timetable and much more AI traffic.

Both routes have a number of issues but very different problems to be sure. So comparing and contrasting them is not a fruitful exercise in my opinion. They both need serious remedial work. Whether it will be forthcoming no-one knows, but history is not on our side in either case.
.

 

As I said in an earlier post I have chopped and changed on my purchase option. Every time I watch the WCML stream I keep going back to the TSW5 Free core. The route is so bland and lacks any character. It is too clean, too new, the tracks as if they were laid a week ago, no litter, no maintenance and no life.

No doubt Frankfurt will rub our noses in it.

I'll check out the Youtube videos from early access next week

 

I mean everybody keeps saying rivet made the route. Was wondering if there are any tell tail signs in the preview.

 

What I will say is, DTG don't make timetables the way that one has been made.

 

I see. I'm hoping the timetable is better than what people are saying. The dc lines are the reason I bought deluxe with wcml.

I hope dtg clarify before early access otherwise we will be shafted.

 

this is a really good point.

last years uk flagship release (ECML) was an almost 1:1 accurate representation of the real life timetable, with even Hull Trains, Lumo and Grand Central services represented using LNER stock

not only that but a full Class 158 timetable between GRA and PBO, along with full Class 158 AI at Doncaster (for Lincoln), Newark (for Lincoln), Grantham (for Nott'm and Skegness) and Peterborough (for Lincoln), alongside full AI timetable for Class 700 at PBO and full AI timetable using Class 323 at Doncaster..

And that's not even getting started on the many freight services, RHTT services and others, it was and still is just full of life.. and in fact if it wasn't for the simple fact i wish it was Peterborough to York, and not just Doncaster, i would say the ECML is about as close to a 10/10 modern-era route in the entire TSW history.

i mean if it runs on that section of the ECML, it was included (i must say whoever created the ECML timetable, which i believe was Joethefish but happy to be corrected if not, did an incredible job on that one!)

which makes the fact this new tsw5 release feeling like a big step backwards timetable-wise a real surprise,

 

It’s abit of a shame that things like the RHTT & ROG37 have already been forgotten, at the very least the 37 can be seen quite regularly on the southern end. The 08 should have been featured too as one of the TMD’s has a couple that are usually out & about.

There are obviously a couple of people at least at DTG who know how important timetables are, they’re the meat & potatoes of DLC’s. I don’t get why, in their own words “the most requested route in TSW”, is in the current state that it is.

 

As Fawx said, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc.

DTG built San Bernardino and the quality shows. WCMLS, on the other hand, bears more than a passing resemblance to Fife Circle, very obviously so. DTG did not build WCMLS, I’m very confident of that.

 

As mentioned if we only look back to last year with DTG layering the 158, 47, and 323 as AI, and a pretty 1:1 timetable on the ECML, it would be a huge step backwards for them to release one of the TSW5 routes in such a shoddy condition... The WCML is definitely not DTGs work. A disastrous move on DTGs behalf by allowing it if so...

 

I hope when DTG put out more info next week they answer this question and put the speculation to bed. It’s not for purposes of a witch-hunt nor throwing another studio under the bus, but there is no getting around the fact that a proper balls up has been made of a much anticipated and looked forward to route which is clearly going to impact the game’s standing. IMHO it’s only fair to tell the people buying the product which dev studio is responsible for it.

The fact that the question hasn’t been answered so far speaks volumes to me.

 

Well it is the turn of Frankfurt to face the public next Wednesday.

I have to say it's great to see you, Fawx and Bescot on this thread. I should image you are putting a game plan together between you.

Your joint work on Fife was well appreciated.

 

Is it still a witch-hunt if we've found a boiling cauldron and a cupboard full of broomsticks?

 

I'm calling this fairly convincing proof- you know your timetables.

Subcontracting happens, but nobody's forcing DTG to hire any particular contractor?

Why use someone whose reputation is, to be kind, less than good?

Why on the TSW5 flagship route, of all places?

DTG's timetables since TSW4 launch have been pretty darn good IMO, Fife and now this one are the only real stinkers.

What could they have in common? Hmmm...

 

Could just be a broomstick salesman making some soup?

 

If that’s one of the collectibles then that’s a pretty big giveaway

Barring the obvious issues that exist with the core (sweeping statement but we know what it means) DTG’s post TSW4 content has been almost universally very good. Everything they’ve trailed for the future also looks great, particularly the GWE revamp.

WCMLS is so very obviously not of the same standard, but it does share many of the hallmarks of Fife Circle.

 

I assume even if they don’t answer the question the answer will be easy enough to find in the credits section of the route manual?

 

A cleaner AND a cook?? Youre hired!

 

Yeah, I fell for all the glitter and shiney stuff including a suspension system with TSW4 and what I got wasn't so shiney. Fool me once....!

 

Here's food for thought:

WCML and SB were both built by DTG. But, because of the many complaints about US stuff being left behind so to speak, they put more effort into SB to appease those customers. The side effect: WCML is not up to standard, and this time was the one they neglected.

 

Nods as good as wink to a blind horse!

 

Could be, and would speak again to poor project management- is there not sufficient staff? If not, why not? If there is enough staff, why aren't dev resources being allocated properly?

 

Even though the current state the route is in isn't really acceptable, I'm still hopeful that most of the issues will be fixed, as it is a core route, and several issues on the TSW4 ECML were fixed.
I'm still trying to remain positive, as I really like the line in real life, and the TSW counterpart could still reflect that. Better late than never, I suppose.

 

It's fair to assume from what DTG have said so far that there will be 'minimal changes' (read: no changes) from what was on the live stream. So any improvement will only happen when the first patch is downloaded to our PCs. Anything before then (including the phrase "firm commitment" is just a useless word salad of promises left unfulfilled.

The errors are there for all to see, the test now is the speed and quality of the fix to sort this mess out.

 

If it is a rivet route, hopefully it's not like Fife circle where the first patch completely broke the train running sounds and they still remain broken to this day, many months later.

 

Or the 150/2, which remains broken after years.

 

The one thing I find funny is, there was a comment on a thread recently that said "if people were not told something was a Rivet product they wouldn't be able to tell the difference"... Yet in this instance, me and others in the TSW community have spotted the the hallmarks and poor standards straight away...

I know it is a terrible thing to say, but I think it would be a perfect scenario for DTG to throw Rivet under the bus if our suspicions turn out to be true. And DTG have a lot of questions to answer themselves on why they would trust them with such a large and complex project for TSW5.

I just hope DTG acknowledge this and take the WCML in-house and fix and improve it themselves as it's the only way forward to bring it upto tolerable standard.