https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/wcml-south-not-good-enough.84156/#post-886405 The streamers didn’t even mention it. Here’s the same problem from another angle; Rivet basically either don’t know how, or don’t bother, to set up a lot of the lighting correctly. They’ve used what are called Point Lights on all their routes where they are not the correct option and I’m fairly sure, alongside the baking, that that is what’s going on here. It almost certainly accounts for why some carriages are darker and some are thermonuclear blast white. I would hazard a guess that the ones that are white are sat underneath a concentrated and overly bright point light. So much of TSW is great but it is repeatedly let down time and time again by this LOVE. As I’ve said before I have no formal training in this and I know that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but it really isn’t hard. Even the the most basic bit of googling can point you in the right direction with ways to set up lighting properly. I’m going to call it what it is…with the collective knowledge garnered from 8+ years of developing this game it is utterly unacceptable that this is still happening. Unfortunately, as this is largely still the only show in town we’re stuck with it. When it’s good it can be great but when it’s bad, my God is it bad. In the same vein, I mentioned this to DTG a while back and included a link to another forum post elsewhere with potential solutions. On the one hand you can be happy (I guess) that they’re at least looking for solutions, but at the same time you have to wonder about the competence of Devs who are hawking the internet for answers to a job they are paid to do. Probably best not question the standard of English in the post, but to me that demonstrates how much care the person that posted it puts into what they do. https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/glowing-hair-in-sunlight/1747559
What I find annoying is that if I want the Class 710 to be on the WCML when I get it, I have to either pay £24.99 for the whole suffragette line which I am not interested in and is way too expensive at the moment for me to justify purchasing, or pay £94 for the TSW5 Special edition which has routes that I already own and is not worth it either. I wish they could just have the Class 710 as a seperate DLC for like £10 or something.
To show off the route before release. I dont use it for any other reason, why would I care about what they have to say?
yep, if I was to go about according to the outcry about Fife Circle being in fact the eleventh circle of hell, I would never buy it... got it, liking it this is in the same thought-vein as when someone says "oh, doctors wont complain about certain meds because they are paid by the big pharma" ... or customers getting angry (I work at a bookstore) because we dont have a book, thinking we got some sort of secret warehouse or storeroom where we keep books so we dont have to sell those to them ... aka conspiracy thinking, light version how about they just choose to keep the videos positive, just presenting the route as it is now, knowing full well those releases are going to get improved over time... I seriously doubt they are blind ... y know, the world isnt out there to get you all the time
I was watching the stream back through and I'm sure it has been mentioned before but I notice that the 350 is missing the door opening/closing 'hiss' and the clunk when they shut. I'm surprised that they missed that as when I personally think about the sounds of a Desiro I first think of the 'UFO' traction motors and then the clunk of the doors shutting, like they have to be the 2 most distinctive sounds of them.
I would say the ambassadors are there to talk up the route and encourage sales as much as just to show it off.
I think the 390s run sounds are too quiet too, if you compare their stream https://www.youtube.com/live/CPrpgsShLa8?si=2NmCIEI67892sFxZ&t=6767 to it feels like the 390 sounds are missing so much depth. I know the run sounds are synthesized but I feel like a better job could be done.
Tsw is terrible for sound. The in cab sounds are totally unrealistic on most trains and the outside sounds change dependent of what part of the route you are on. The sound phasing on multiple units is terrible also.
Haha you are preaching to the converted mate. I have been saying this for longer than I care to remember and every time I said that I encountered abuse from some forums members. As was mentioned above “be your own ambassador “
If I really were seeking counsel from a gazer of crystal balls, I would probably agree with you! I usually like to get my point across with a dose of humour, but I’ll leave you to judge if therapy will help on the run up to TSW5 release.
Not defending this in any way (the lighting issues really bug me too) but I've literally just been sat in a meeting incredulously asking someone why the lighting of a simple extruded solid can't just be fixed..... (The irony amused me.) Btw, there's nothing wrong with using point lights per se - light bulbs are point lights, so they are one of the main sources of artificial lighting - but there are also other types of light sources which form part of modelling the real world, e.g. ambient (daylight) and directional (the unobscured sun). The issues we're seeing above are more likely to be related to the polygons/triangles being rendered, e.g. dodgy normals or materials. Or perhaps there's something weird going on in the way things are optimised, perhaps at the baking stage?
At this point, I think we can all agree the best course or action here is to give all NPC’s The IMALENT SR32 flashlights. They can blast 120,000 lumens of light more than 2,000 m. Great for contacting the UFO’s and will definitely blind some drivers. As long as we have good night lightening, that’s all that matters
Re 390 sounds. This is the Youtube promo of a Bluray I have which I referred to earlier. In between the commentary you can hear the cab sounds. I watch this with Commentary OFF.
Ambassadors will give you early access to see the TSW5 working, like DTG live stream gave us early access. So, you will have several opportunities to see TSW5 in its full dodgy lighting, poor timetable glory. It is down to YOU to believe what ambassadors or DTG tell you and certainly one of them you need to take a truck load of salt (not a pinch)
If that ballast popping is a feature of all new TSW5 routes then that could be an issue for me. Likewise if the new track shadows solution that doesn't work on points. If that screws up any ini tweaks then that could also be annoying. Then there's the missing suspension which was originally promised for TSW4, then on every traction unit in TSW5.. Then theres those appalling glowing carriage screenshots of Euston.. Atm there's some pretty big question marks over TSW5. Fear of Missing Out should really be replaced by something else if one has even the slightest degree of self awareness. The free update is a banker option that can sit in your library alongside your existing TSW version, while you assess some less biased footage post launch. If its that good, I'll buy at full price. If its as is now the discount isn't enough. If you buy at discount and then regret it, you can regret it 10% less or whatever it is.. if its great and I buy at full price, I'll be happy knowing I've supported a great product that I'm enjoying fully. Unbelievably there's actually games in my library that fall into that category, so it is possible.
So the update for the improvements for the WCML have been released, I don't know how I feel about it at the moment. Not particularly buying the timetable...
Hello everyone, as mentioned above we've shared an update regarding the WCML improvements coming post-launch, and also makes an acknowledgement to LNWR branding, Track Shadows, Neutral Sections, Night lighting, as well as the full service count details for the WCML on launch. We hope this has helped to provide some clarity and we thank you for your patience as we've investigated all your feedback Please read this in full on our WCML thread: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/your-feedback-for-the-west-coast-main-line-updated.84188/
You’re absolutely right, there’s nothing wrong with using point lights in the manner for which they were designed. When you use them on street lamps, fluorescent strip lights etc etc though you open up a Pandora’s Box. Rivet has always used them far more liberally than DTG have, and it shows again in this route. I’ve also just seen the ‘update’. Exactly as I said, the stream build was the release build (hint, unless they delay release it ALWAYS is), the 390 GSM-R doesn’t work and very clearly what we’re about to get our hands on is an absolute mess. Many of the things they’re committing to rectifying are things that should have been done right in the first place and should not, at this stage in the games life, be an issue. Please DTG, please make it public who built this route. I don’t think it’s throwing them under the bus, Rivet need to understand that this simply is not good enough. They’ve rather landed you in it as well because you’re taking undeserved flak here. You would have thought they might have figured it out after the Fife Circle debacle (which was the last time the community managers were having to apologise and commit to doing better in future). What steps are you putting in place to make sure this doesn’t happen again?
im less fomo and more terrified of messing up my setup. Ill stick to what I know in tsw4 its a safer bet at the moment.
Maybe I've misunderstood something, and please feel free to clarify with me what this means, but what does "working in conjunction with multiple development partners mean" ?
I'll wait until I see the promised fixes actually delivered. History has taught me at least that promises or intentions are seldom delivered in a timely manner if at all with DTG.
Exactly, I want to see this improvements in place and working before I hand over my cash. I just don't trust these merchants anymore.
If you play on steam preorder the deluxe edition and ask for a refund if not happy with the result... You keep youre lower price when you happy and would like to keep the deluxe edition
It's words accompanied by smoke and mirrors, I'm going to hold back and await these patches to see what they really bring and what the community think of them.
I've been saying this in the previous thread to about holding Rivet accountable if proven... Transparency about route development needs to be a thing going forward. I can guarantee if people were aware from the start this was possibly a Rivet route that sales would be very poor without the preview stream from previous experience of their products. I think with the standard this is being released in I'm not entirely happy. The timetable is still completely lacking and the question about the 350/1 duplication possibility hasn't been answered. I think, for once, I'll be cancelling my pre order until such a time another route for TSW5 comes out or the WCML is fixed to a better standard with further post launch updates. That timetable is completely poor still. Not good... Not good at all. Disappointing stuff DTG I have to admit. I'm glad that issues have been acknowledged, but these updates don't seem thorough enough. Is "working in conjunction with development partners" an admission of 3rd party involvement. Not to stir the pot, but can anyone tell me what this means?
I don't agree with that because you are rewarding DTG and showing trust by doing that. I've seen the DD stream with my own eyes and there is no chance in hell that can be fixed in 2 weeks, as DTG have admitted. I want to see improvements first which means waiting for the patches to arrive.
That timetable is pathetic, not sure who made the decision on that being ‘final’ but it can’t have been anyone remotely knowledgeable or interested in the route. It makes you question why they’d even bother at an attempt of WCML if that’s all they can manage for traffic.
HI there. This article states that I need Bakerloo to get the 72 stock, whereas elsewhere DTG have said it's coming with the route. Please clarify
"They're in the current development cycle which has started today - and once that is completed and tested, we'll be able to confirm a release date." Sound familiar..?
Not really convinced by the long discourse from Alex and the comments about the night lighting... Sadly just indicates how out of touch DTG are about how TSW appears compared to other games. Sheesh SimCity Build It on the iPad looks better at night. Free update it is. Pop open a beer, watch the fireworks on the forum and get on with enjoying TSC, SimRail and Run 8 while waiting for a good sale.
It probably means R***t were involved, but they didn’t want to actually state it due to unpopularity. Yet in another sentence they say “in the interest of transparency…”, so some mixed messaging there.
It completely avoids the difficult issue of ‘ambient and environmental lighting’ that a city like London has. However dark it may be it is not inky black, nor does every window in a given building reflect a uniform, non-existent light. If they are happy with what they’ve achieved I really do give up.
Slightly disappointed that I have to own the suffragete line to use the Class 710, which is £24 alone, or by purchasing the Special edition which is £94, is there no way of having the Class 710 as a seperate DLC?
How was this even considered acceptable and given the green light for release when the route is very clearly incomplete? This was 100% rushed.
Absolutely, that is also due in part to them using these point lights that don’t actually cast light beyond the defined point it’s aimed at.
Yeah, you are better off sticking with what works because DTG are known for releasing what shouldn't be released and you are left with a dead duck.
Exactly. It doesn't matter what stream or video you watch if you are using your own eyes to make the decision.
Yep. If it wasn't for the 390 I wouldn't even be touching this route at all, I'm clearly a sucker for the chance to drive a Pendolino. It's just going to look WAY off on the stretch between Watford and Euston.
