I for one am very interested to see the thoughts of the Ambassadors. If the WCML is as bad as it was on the stream (and it was poor, you can't deny it), then they'll be spinning hard on the positives. Presumably they'll have access tomorrow?
In UE4 that’s what you would use a spotlight for. In TSW point Lights are very specific. Again, only an interested amateur here, but from modding the game you can see DTG use very little by way of point lights. Rivet use a lot of them. This adds a little context https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/s...-lights-to-emulate-ceiling-lightbulbs/55189/8
Point lights are fine - as long as you configure them properly. They're sending out photons in all directions. The issue is more that to have them look realistically, they need to have a "ShadowCasting" flag set. If not, the light will protrude solid walls. Shadow Casting is too performance intensive still, so it's disabled almost everywhere. It's fine for small FPS maps and slow player movement, but a problem for a train sim. To compensate for missing shadow casting dynamic light, baked prerendered lightmaps are used. (Not sure who introduced them first - Unreal or Quake).
Whilst I think a lot of the community concerns have been addressed directly, I think the timetable for the LO/LU services need to be fixed. We pay out of our own pockets for the best experience possible, and although other details will be tweaked and fixed, the timetable is paramount to the experience, and without the full timetable it feels as though we as player’s are not getting the full experience.
This. They’re fine when used as designed and configured properly. Unfortunately a lot of the time in TSW that isn’t the case. I’ve also noticed that a lot of the time they are also set to be incredibly bright, far brighter than they need to be.
I agree. I was just clarifying something you said that wasn't quite right. You may have been thinking of falloff (or whatever they call it in UE), i.e. point lights don't emit light at the same brightness infinitely.
Thanks for that latest update, just what i needed to decide to refund my £54 deluxe pre-order not only is the timetable nowhere near good enough at this point in tsw's life cycle, but it's clearly been stated improving it is not a priority. for this to be the flagship uk route for tsw5, i'm actually not just frustrated i'm frankly embarrased this is the offering. I genuinely thought we were further along and more ambitious than this, it's just sad to see such a major requested uk route be so let down, and in reality we shouldn't even be talking about this, a comprehensive and enjoyable timetable should be the foundation of any new route.. it really should. i'm usually the first to give dtg a chance but as i've said before, this is simply nowhere near good enough
Yh I think their is some similarities I noticed, I mean without getting my hands on the timetable I can’t say for sure but missing massive gaps in timetable is something they did with the fife circle route. They also screwed up end destinations on the ai 801 services at Edinburgh and the noticeable lack of any Railtour content or unit drags is was another criticism of the timetable on fife and e2g when that came out. I wouldn’t also be surprised when i get this that they end up missing ECS movements from depots, fifes other stupid thing was to not use Haymarket depot at all. Just depressing really, this was shaping up to be cool but DTG always seem to be terribly bad at reinforcing quality control across their products and across the 3rd Party content as well.
If the Rivet rumours are true, outside of the timetable and scenery that have been discussed, does that leave the possibility that they have developed the rolling stock for the route too? That would be another huge concern for me...
Rivet Need to be canceled for ever for any TSW Content Enough is Enough with there terrible Work for Full price
Just for completeness (not being argumentative), spot lights are directional point lights that emit light in a cone.
Imho their UK flagship route stays SEHS. Lots of variety and decent length. As in TSC, where Victoria / Blackfriars to Dover and Ramsgate was their pinnacle, using all their experience to deliver their definite home route. Blackpool may be the best looking, but it's still only a small branch line.
My feedback is wcml should more services (pointing to overground) this route is a flagship route i also think dovetail should of told us about gen 8 issues eariler as a game devolper they should tell us stright away when they know
DTG promised some improvements like lighting Improvements, and add GSMR to Pendolino. However, the two main issues, nighttime lighting and timetable remain unsolved. DTG thought that area is "generally very dark" irl so they are happy with the current horrible nighttime lighting, as the timetable, they said "making improvements to the volume of services in the timetable isn't something we can promise" even that they are capable of making a busy timetable. In the end, WCMLS is still an unacceptable and DTG's explainations are still are far from sincere. If DTG can't fix WCMLS, it would become the least popular modern UK route made by DTG. DTG is capable of making a busy timetable, BML, SEHS (TSW3 version), CCL (new timetable), all of them have a very busy timetable, even the new Frankful-Fulda route has a very promising timetable (at least around Frankful Hbf). I can 't understand why DTG would make such an empty and horribe timetable for the busiest section on WCML, and they even cannot promise a improvement. Maybe the rumor is true, WCMLS is actually made by Rivet Game, that can explain the horrible timetable, among with all other issues.
I’m perhaps not using the right terminology to be fair. It is definitely a hallmark of rivet content though that they use a lot of incredibly bright, very tightly constrained cones that cast very little directional light. Anything underneath them is always completely over-exposed and they often shine through surfaces etc that they shouldn’t. The Forth Rail bridge is a good example. Whatever they did there with the lighting is just so very wrong. It looks good from a distance but driving through it at night you can see the way the lighting has been set up is a total dogs dinner, it’s almost blinding to see it.
I mean i seriously doubt they had their hands in a little bit of everything, but already pretty weird for them to (if they did) farm out timetable to the one 3rd party dev that is notoriously bad at handling highly intensive service patterns. I mean Christ they couldn’t even do Edinburghs timetable properly and it wasn’t even scotlands busiest terminus
Agreed, but not forgetting London Commuter too. Hard to believe that by TSW 5, a TSW 2 Rush Hour still to this day has the biggest and most impressive timetable in TSW history...
Any word from DTG yet about what improvements they can make to WCML? The best thing they can do is take it back in house (if they did indeed entrust it to Rivet). Then they need to slap themselves for ever having given it to Rivet in the first place.
Yeah, here's their update https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...st-coast-main-line-updated.84188/#post-893554
think its clear to say whoever is setting deadlines at DTG needs to get their head checked... i know the developers would want this to be better. just like the players, but just the sheer lack of accountability from the higher ups drags this game down.
Class 350 EMU – 244 services Class 377/2 – 36 services Class 66 – 38 Services Class 390/0 Pendolino – 49 services Class 390/1 Pendolino – 60 services 1972 Stock – 198 Services Class 710 – 65 services (Requires London Overground Suffragette Line add-on) I see now, forgetting the 710! Class 350 - 244 services. 1972 stock - 198 services. Appalling.
Well, I am finally off the fence. I will be spending my money on nothing. I will take the Free Upgrade TSW5 and wait for JT WCML, look forward to the Remaster of GWR and keep an eye out for Cardiff. See you all in the post Frankfurt Stream thread Jetstream and Bescot, good seeing you on here you guys are gonna have your work cut out.
Also to add, that timetable is final, so very much doubt it will be fixed. So yeah, nail in the coffin for me, this is abysmal and for this to be allowed to release in the condition it is in is shocking by DTGs own standard. If modders can rectify these problems in a very short space of time amongst their own working lives, I really do no see much of an excuse for people who do this as their daily job. This all screams Rivets laziness, and being trusted with such a complex route. More disappointingly DTG knew their capabilities and have still (again not officially confirmed) trusted them with a complex route. DTG really need to reflect on this and question why such a complex route was left with cowboys. And if this is Rivets work don't be under any illusions, they will produce a route, release minor fixes and abandon their products... DTG really have let themselves down. I have always been the first to jump in and defend them, but in this instance they deserve all the criticism and flack they are receiving on this. It's going to take alot for them to bounce back from this for me personally... and this has certainly tarnished their image. What more can I add to what I've already said I'm this thread and the last one? Just complete and utter disappointment in the route, in DTG and shocked this standard of work was allowed to be commissioned and released to players.
It is all about money, their finanical turn over and getting money in regardless if TSW is ready or not. And if players keep preordering, DTG will keep doing it, so stop preordering, simple.
That's true, but from a route perspective BML is absolutely linear, running through a corridor of tree embankments.
So once again dtg make a route with the potential to be the busiest route on tsw and do a half assed job. Is this a train simulator or a dr beeching cuts simulator! What was the actual point of modelling watford dc lines, really?
What I find most interesting is the tone of surprise in the response. Assuming it's genuine, this would suggest that things are pulled together very late, so no one quite knows how it will turn out until it's too late. I could be wide of the mark but it's just a thought.
Dtg if you can't make a route that's represents real life then don't bother wasting dev time on it. Make something else!
It's also telling how nobody has come on here yet to defend DTG. That says a lot because you can't defend the undefendable.
Absolutely ridiculous. Well, I will not be pre-ordering again after I cancelled. If DTG can’t be bothered, neither can I. Simple!
Well, emotions are pretty high atm. I think it's probably a good idea to choose the moment. We probably don't need another round of personal attacks, and Im guilty of flirting around the edge of that today. Disappointment makes one behave poorly at times, but are we really that surprised? Get past the emotional stuff, and I find myself wondering how damaging this episode may prove to be to the Brand. Its a poor showing for DTG to have ended up here, and at some point the two lines of recurring revenue and negative brand reputation will cross.
“Track Shadows – During our preview, we’ve seen feedback that track shadows weren’t appearing to be functional on junctions, this is intentional and due to the unique nature and design of every junction being a complex process to render reliably.” Yeah, no. A lot of us are aware of the issue at junctions. During the San Bernardino route preview specifically the issue of track shadows popping in, in front of the trains - was happening dozens and dozens of times on long pieces of straight track. Again why do they continue to directly avoid even the smaller details of our constructive feedback?
H How many 350 services should there be? Regarding the 1972 stock the number seemed right to me. Remember they are only every 15 mins between Queen’s Park and Harrow and Wealdstone. Happy to be corrected but the 350 schedule and 390 one looks right to me. According to WMT there is 142 trains each day in either direction between both operators. Which roughly adds up so it’s hard to see how there can be more 350 services? The 710 is utterly unacceptable but the others look about right to me
There are three 710 trains going up and down the line taking 2 hours to complete a loop. I think you would need to duplicate the services for a further 5 trains and alter the times to fill in the gap. Its not hard to do this in the timetable editor. So I assume the full Overground timetable was not implemented to save resources because its seen as tertiary to the route after the trains included with the route and the Pendolino. We know this is challenging timetable because its been cut down for gen 8 consoles but even outside of that, the game has to cater for user devices with a wide range of capabilities. I am sure that once the route is released there will be creative people looking at making a fuller timetable and I am sure they will be successful but it will not matter if a timetable from Train Sim Community does not run well on lower end PCs. Dovetail have to be conservative with the timetable because everybody has to be able to run it without issues.
They have to learn. Like a lot of companies, just going for the quickest way to make money is the quickest way to lose money. You get customers and loyalty by producing worthwhile products that people love. Ditch the yearly releases Ditch the partners that can't deliver Fix the issues most pressing to the customers and for the foundations of the future game Stop dropping content for new content Work within your means - Its better to release three quality pieces of content per year than 6-7 half baked ones. If this carries on for the next year TSW might be finished by TSW6 as people leave the franchise behind. Its does and can happen, even with a niche game such as this.
Also noticed some of the service that were on the timetable are non stop through Milton Keynes Central in real life with same headcode so this is strange
Most of the DC line will be the Bakerloo line & I’m guessing for what they would have needed to model of that from a WCML perspective, it was easier to do the transplant from TSW2. For the DC line itself, outside of the station detailing along the mainline it would only be Watford High Street that’s actually separate from it. It’s amusing to me that it’s also one of the stations that needed lighting sorting out - it was the one thing on the DC line that needed modelling, how’s that missed? Much like what Matt was saying about the Highway on SB being a great feature, then showing it off in a comically poor state - he also buzzed up hype over this DC line, yet it has less than half of its IRL services. Say what you will about things being the fault of higher ups & such, but that is really disingenuous in my eyes. Basically there was no way DTG could have done this route without including the Bakerloo & Watford DC line, other than just having no traffic on it. Given the short scope of this DLC in general & AWC being a separate DLC, this is very much a local commuter route & from a Timetable perspective, it’s a massive failure. I don’t know what exactly has caused these issues, be it Gen8, Rivet or Time, but taking into consideration all of its problems, this route should never have left the drawing board. DTG really need to get their cards together & assess what it is they can achieve, because these yearly releases are clearly not achievable.
Unfortunately, this might not be true. And a good pre sales indicator is the amount of discussion, not necessarily its content. As long as your product is spawning discussion, it will sell. DTG would have to worry if everyone just ignored WCML.
My company I work for is the same. Im in UX and I do research on behalf of the company. They are losing subscriptions and customers by the shed load and the customers are telling them why - they just want fixes and features they need. And yet the company, driven by stupid shareholders and stakeholders continue to chase innovation no one wants, wasting money and crippling our user base. Utter stupidity.
You can only get away with that for so long. Once you lose a customer you lose them for good usually.
The 350 services I'm not worried about, I'm guessing that's the right amount of services. Lu services on the other hand should be more than the amount of 350 services surely.
I couldn't have said that better. They should have just copied and pasted the dc lines, stuck a couple of ai services on it and spent the wasted time, modelling the line beyond Milton Keynes.
I may have misunderstood so stand to be corrected, but usually ambassadors make preview streams before the public release, (including early access), and it seems that their are no ambassador streams before then? Has this always been the case with each new game?
British Ace is the only honest DTG Ambassador that I know of. If something is rubbish, he tells it straight. I stopped watching the other channels, because they say every DLC is fantastic, just to keep the free Steam keys coming.
I think with this, they were so determined to try and do something to equal ECML from last year ambition got the better of them and they completely overstretched. If they no longer have the resources in house to undertake major projects and the associates aren't up to the task then it's time to trim the sails in a bit. Instead of a main line with frantic service levels and complex locations, do a rural line with a train every couple of hours. I would rather have had the Cambrian Coast Line or something like Wherry Lines to a decent standard of finish and the fullest possible timetable, but not so onerous to build.
