this is exactly what happened with Rivet's Fife Circle. There were around 90 Class 170 services across the ENTIRE 24 hour period, yet if you looked closer some of these were simply 2 minute 'Glenrothes Shunt' services, making the actual number of proper services across 24 hours something in the 70 region. then Rivet updated the timetable with an additional 33 Cowdenbeath services.. yet one third of those were again 'shunt services' so despite saying there were 33 extra services, in reality only 22 were actually additional in-service passenger journeys. it simply cannot be denied that Rivet have produced underwhelming and disappointing UK timetables. They did the same with WCL, where not only did that not include the Falmouth branch but for some reason got extended to St Austell which added no real positive gameplay, but the timetable was incredibly weak.. including zero Penzance to St Ives trips, which exist in reality at the start and end of service. I'm not trying to upset anyone at Rivet or hurt anyone's feelings.. i'm just talking about the facts of mine (and many others) experiences of Rivet's UK timetables. I gave them the benefit of the doubt up to and including Fife Circle, but the timetable created for that was frankly unbelievably poor, and i'm holding out hope that when Leven gets added the timetable is significantly enhanced (credit to Skyhook for what they did with the new E2G timetable in fairness) The simple fact is that no developer, under any circumstance, can look at this flagship TSW5 UK route of WCML South and think for one second this timetable is good enough, because it simply is not good enough.. i still can't believe we're even still having this conversation, DTG for me really need to come out and tell us exactly why this is the 'final timetable', i genuinely want to know specifically why this is what it is
Oh I know the route quite well, albeit from the 1970’s and early 1980’s, the latter commuting between Northampton and London. (Cobblers!). Back then the DC Line was the rattling old Class 501’s, but still every 20 minutes in the off peak. Then in the morning and evening you had the through trains to and from Broad Street, also 501’s plus the through Bakerloo services to Watford Junction. In fact a period DC Line/North London Line would have been great in its own right, maybe not built by Rivet. What’s quite astonishing and DTG should really be taking note, is on the eve of early access instead of the forum abuzz with anticipation of the new version and content. Instead the determination to get the message across re WCMLS still dominates the discussion.
Very true, it smells very much of a lazy shortcut in this case. Instead of making the full solid timetable, (and cut it for gen8), its looking like doing the gen 8 timetable for all platforms to save time. Totally inacceptable!
Do DTG have plans for voyager or a new Freight locomotive.It could explain the gaps left in the timetable. It was the lack of suspension on the 350,72 stock and the 710 that has me disappointed personally . I'm aware that things go wrong, life's like that sometimes. I also wonder if recommended system specs are up to running the three new routes.Thats a real worry. I have about six months before I can build a new PC. I'm still looking forward to the route though and the American and German routes also. The pendalino and Vectron look good.
I had a look at that preview stream from a while back. It's a tiny thing, but I was gutted I could not see the old "HST STOP" signs at Euston. I always look out for them when I go to Euston, they are a nice reminder of the station's past.
Lets face reality and make a positive suggestion to DTG as an idea of a very much needed feature for TSW6. DTG should focus on bringing a solid timetable editor for tsw, so players can share their timetables on cc. What can i expect from a dev that is not even seeing a point in populating the empty sidings of a depot? Yes exactly, nothing. Different thought: was the "accurate timetable feature" dropped to save money and performance?
Considering the biggest gap is with the London Overground line I'd say that if they were doing something like that it would have to be making the North/West London Line and having a 378 included with that addon to then layer on to the WCML. Also I feel like they probably wouldnt make a Voyager since Avanti are currently phasing them out for their new class 805s.
BML is still one of the most enjoyable routes and its years old. It really feels like you are commuting into a busy London. the amount of traffic is insane.
That's not how timetables work in TSW unfortunately. They need to be simulated (which takes a long time, over an hour even on a great PC), so they aren't something that can be created in game.
Unfortunately as seems common across a number of routes, from the stream it appears they haven’t even bothered adding half of the current operational stop boards. Harrow & Wealdstone was one I noticed, as well as for some reason having two AWS magnets right next to each other which was glossed over quickly.
Exactly, that's why the route is so good, the traffic. If 70% of the traffic was missing, people wouldn't touch it.
DTG should no longer allow Rivet to touch WCML. It should be in house now. Rivet have been a disaster and should never have been tasked with developing the route in the first place.
Thanks for the replies. I'm still getting up to speed on current railway news.And I did buy the 700 thinking it would have timetable other than ECML depot to platform and the SEHS branches onward BML turned out to be another story.I'm up to speed with layers now. Bit spooked of mods at the moment,had a gigabyte install of FSX that had random stability ten years ago. I know there's a dedicated bunch doing good mods and paint jobs. 805 class; can that run the West Coast at design maximum speed ? Hadn't realised the underground layer/extension had disappointed everyone too.
It's all about the immersion, each route having it's own characteristics and flavour. WCML South should be choc-a-bloc with traffic, pulling you into your virtual train driver world, and making you feel you're there. Very much like London-Brighton which is a beacon of how a heavy commuter traffic route should be done (although not perfect, but what is). So please Rivet, leave the platforms lifts, bagpipes, and pianos behind and focus on the essence of the route; what gives it it's soul but out on the track. Look at a real cab ride video and besides the traffic you will see all manner of lineside clutter. Use your eyes and try to reproduce this in the game, it all adds ambiance and immersion to the route.
The thing that gets me with the poor timetable, is it really does come down to laziness by Rivet- that word gets thrown around unfairly, but afaik, building timetables is less about skill than time, attention to detail, and sheer determination- many many hours of fixing something, resimulating the timetable, seeing if something new broke, fix that, res-sim again, etc. The results we've seen suggest Rivet just didn't want to put in the required time and effort.
One suggestion would be to enable PC editor to export timetables and scenarios to creators club. This was suggested on a recent live stream. As they do not contain extra assets they may even get past the console restrictions.
I think the major problem is that DTG or whoever is pulling the strings has actually factored into their business model that TSW players are soft and they can take advantage of TSW players. That is what it seems to be were I am sitting and from what wcml is proves it. TSW4 arrived a complete mess, DTG spent months trying to fix it and there are still issues they will not fix. Then DTG launch TSW5 and oh this is in a mess as well and by the looks of it this will take months to clear up as well. Then TSW6 will arrive....can you guess what that is going to be like? And players get hurt when I try and advise them because they think I am attacking their "friends" at DTG or their way of life. I said it months ago in a poll, should DTG stop making DLCs and fix what is wrong with TSW4 and some players complained about that idea, but look where we are today.
To build on this, what really disappointed me about the WCML we're not fixing a lot of it announcement is there was no we are going to be all hands on deck to fix this and make it right it was just a oh well if we fix it. I personally would've had a lot of respect for DTG if we had an admission that its not up to standard, an apology and a commitment to fixing the timetable and them stating that all projects will be on hold until this is rectified. Pie in the sky here but I think they should also add the Abbey Line to make up for what will be a poor day 1 experience.
BML and SEHS have really good traffic which makes the routes feel alive it's a shame others can't be like that
[Deleted; Inflammatory - DTGHarry] Just for the record of those reading this thread, I couldn't care less if Dovetail went bust and folded tomorrow, It wouldn't make any difference to my life and they definitely ain't my friends, they simply make a product I want to buy......
Ultimately everyone will make their own minds up and I’m still weighing what to do. We have until the 16th to make a final decision whether or not to spend the £54 (or £34). However in noting DTG’s undertaking for post release fixes, some of us still have a rather dim view as to the state in which steam traction has been left with the company completely unrepentant about their actions.
SEHS is what WCML should've been. There's a reason it's my most played route to date, and pretty much the only one I touch.
Yeah, I am not a steam guy, I don't know much about steam, but even I am disappointed they dropped it. I love just having a load of locos to mess around on, steam included and they dropped it because not enough money, there is a red flag right there. Yeah, DTG have put everybody in this position, making it really hard to decide or warrant buying a broken game.
A lot of what you say has merit. We are too soft and easy for sure. I just wish DTG would check their subcontractors if they are going to farm out the work. If they'd of said it was being done by rivet then there would have been a riot on here and rightly so. Secondly they need to take longer on the three flagship routes upon which the standard of the new release applies, they cannot just be treated as normal dlc releases because they carry the next new version of the game. I wonder whether this years free upgrade was because they knew the state WCML was going to release in? It's not really that hard to get right once a year.
That can't even get acknowledged without a classic PR answer. We still don't know why that's been dumped the way it has been and swept under the rug. They won't even acknowledge that now. Unfortunately it seems like that is now the way DTG are set on doing things.
I think DTG needs to employ proper quality control for its products. Just because they are virtual doesn't mean they don't have to reach a certain standard of quality. Imagine FIFA releasing a mess such as this. Can you imagine it? Sorry folks we've missed a few teams out and a few others have last years strip. We will try and fix it later.
DTG have a hear no evil, see no evil policy. They are a business and they box clever or try to do damage control because it affects their bottom line. Players on here may not know how businesses work or think, but usually any comment they have had a meeting about it, how to divert, change the subject and so on. DTG have been caught red handed, but they can't or are too scared to come out and admit they made a mistake because it would cost money. The reality is DTG have done this over several version of TSW and it has got worse and worse, to the point even the loyal fans are saying enough is enough.
DTG probably don't even need to pay quality controllers, I would say a lot of players on this forum would keep DTG honest.
Someone leaked WCML earlier this year, access for beta testers was withdrawn following that, while WCML was still in development. A few months later, WCML is publicly revealed, and is in a poor state. Coincidence? I think not.
Didn’t Matt say in another thread they had a new batch of beta testers on tap? And even without beta testing, the management at Rivet (ha!) and DTG should have had ongoing close oversight of the route building process.
They dropped steam because they couldn't make the physics work properly in Simugraph (not to mention the AI audio) and didn't consider the time and resources necessary to make it work worthy of investment, despite having massively hyped steam as the pinnacle of TSW development. After taking a lot of heat from the community, they reversed the rhetoric and more or less blamed players because steam didn't sell enough. All in all a disgraceful episode of which DTG should be thoroughly ashamed.
I don't recall him saying anything, although it does sound familiar. I do agree about the quality control and that it should exist (and if it does, it definitely needs to be better). But it wouldn't surprise me if even the change in beta testers contributed to this in some way.
This could be the the reason why we haven't got a full timetable perhaps and I've heard rumours of an class 86? But it's all speculation but you probably aren't wrong with they could be leaving gaps for the voyager too
Looking at your response I take it that to create what would be a more true to life timetable for WCMLS would be quite a task
Yeah, I remember DTG ramming steam down everybodys throat, I am not a massive fan of steam, but I was delighted to see it come to TSW and then........
I do not envy beta testers. It must be frustrating reporting unanswered bugs/deficiencies whilst at the same time keeping a cool head so as not to get kicked off the beta program.
The problem isn't rivet, it's dtg! Rivet have done what they have been contracted to do. It's down to dtg to say this isn't really up to our standards, do something about it. I own all rivets routes, I've not always been happy with the quality but it's a route dtg ain't gonna produce at the end of the day. In any business, if you subcontract some work out to someone, and it's not up to standards then that's on you, not the subcontractor! Because at the end of it, you should be checking it's upto standards and putting it right if it isn't.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...e-london-euston-milton-keynes-feedback.84525/ This thread will certainly explode on day one.
They will probably put all replies on pre-moderation. I kid you not. This is going to be one helluva party!
Saying they've listened is one thing. Actually delivering on their "promise" is another. History has taught us that the hard way many times. PS: Be nice to Rivet everyone! They're always trying to deliver their best!
