PC We Are Here To Make Tsw Better Dtg!

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by matthewbguilford, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    2,328
    Hello everyone!
    We have about a week until the release of TSW2020. I wanted to take this time to talk about something I feel we all care about going forward in the future. People have always said that the key to a strong and healthy relationship is communication, I believe that to be true for love and friendship and I also believe that’s true for a company and its consumers for an evolving train simulator that we invest our free time, money, and passion into. DTG should be a lot more open about what its plans are bug fixes and optimization of content already released. I’m sure there is a hard balancing act between fixing content already in the game and also keeping people interested with new content releases. A roadmap would be something that could help a lot, even if for example a fix for NEC was three months away at least the community would have a rough estimate on when they could expect to see changes instead of wondering if the team is aware of these problems at all. Even if they released a list of things needed to be looked at without any dates attached would let the community know that they are aware. TSW is still growing and I hope with the release of TSW2020 they take the opportunity to be more open with the community because especially everyone of us on these forums has a passion for this simulator and we all would like to be apart of its journey as it continues to grow. Please feel free to leave a post letting DTG know that we are the reason TSW is alive and that we want to be more involved with what’s going on behind the scenes!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
    • Like Like x 8
  2. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    265
    I think you can assume that DTG knows TSW fans are passionate, and that the developers read everything posted on the forum. All the bugs and issues reported will be in the team's bug tracker. The developers are also extremely passionate and dedicated to making TSW the best it can be. However, as you point out, there is a balancing act between fixing bugs and releasing new routes. They are doing both, all the time. If you think they're getting the balance wrong, I'm sure they'll note that opinion.

    What would be the advantage of publishing a roadmap of bug fixes? They won't get fixed any faster. In fact, if they did publish it, I think the discussion would rapidly descend into an endless flame war over which things should be fixed first, or in what way. There's enough of that here already, I think.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    Well you know what they say about assumptions. Rather than assume, I'd prefer to know.

    The advantage of publishing a list of bug fixes is simply good communication and an acknowledgement that the bugs exist and they are being worked on. It also tells customers that they are being listened to. This is likely to give customers confidence in investing further time and money in TSW. At the moment, I'm holding back on doing just that, as I'm sure are others. However, I do take your point about the likely bickering.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    667
    Sadly you are falling into the common trap of assuming that all bugs are worked on. Bugs are prioritised and only the top bugs are targeted for solution. Like all software firms DTG has finite resources and only a proportion of those resources will ever be devoted to bug fixing.

    I believe DTG tends to use tickets as one of its primary methods of prioritising bugs i.e. if people aren't complaining about a particular bug then it's pretty unlikely to ever be fixed. Key takeaway - if some bug is annoying you then raise a ticket and encourage others to do so as well.

    I used the phrase "targeted for solution" above because some bugs require engine enhancements, some bugs require core enhancements and some bugs require a lot of resource and these requirements may just not be met for one reason or another. Even if a bug meets the requirements for a top priority it doesn't follow that it will be fixed quickly or at all. If a bug requires an engine change then this may have happened in a later version of the engine but is of no use until TSW is upgraded to that version. Equally the impact of fixing one bug may cause knock on effects in other areas that may be deemed undesirable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    I'm not assuming anything. I'm not really interested in the details about how bugs are prioritised or the internal workings of DTG. That's for DTG to sort out internally. What I'm concerned about is the communication (or lack of). If a bug is reported on here, I'd expect DTG to raise a ticket for their internal procedures. Otherwise, what is the point of the bug report forums if the only way to report them is by a ticket? As a paying customer, I'm not going to jump through their hoops after 1, finding a fault in their product and 2, taking the time to post it on here. DTG should be making it easy for us, otherwise customers just don't bother and spend their money elsewhere. I don't think they want that. Maybe my expectations are too high or maybe regular gamer's expectations are low.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 6
  6. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    265
    The joy of conversation?

    Posting a bug on the forum has precisely no effect. Instead, you should report it via the official support channels. It's very likely that someone else has already noticed and reported it, but one of the ways DTG prioritises bugs is by how many people have reported them. So a bug that affects hundreds of people will probably receive more urgent attention than one which only affects two people.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I see bug fix maps from companies all the time
    I mean Boeing, Ford and Amazon release their project road maps so why not the small fry like DTG?
    Note heavy irony

    The only reason people would want a road map is to then hold them to it and if they don’t meet those targets then they’ll complain, again.

    I don’t see a reason for DTG to do it as it benefits almost nobody
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    Plenty of other places to chat on the forums. They are structured for a reason. Is the "support" forum on DTG's own message board not an official channel then? Seems odd and misleading, don't you think?

    I'll stick to reporting bugs in DTG's own support and bug report forum. If DTG chooses to ignore them and don't communicate, then so be it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    Not the only reason at all. Maybe one reason. For some. And so what if people complain again?

    Starting to think gamers are so used to being treated badly by software companies they just take it. Wake up. It's not how it should be. You deserve better.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    Project road maps and a list of bugs is not the same thing though is it? We are talking about bug fixes to existing products not a disclosure of future product lines or marketing strategy. Never had a product recall? Boeing not the best example after their recent crashes and grounding of the 737 Max.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Hence using them as an ironic example...

    I do not see any company saying "hey, we know about these problems and what we're going to do is make public statements about them that people will hold us to, especially in an environment already known to speak in very very literal terms..."
     
  12. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    Yes, I got the irony bit. But your analogy doesn't work if you are holding Boeing's lack of providing an admission of faults in their products as exemplary and suggesting DTG should follow their lead.

    I just want the product I've purchased to work properly and if it doesn't and I've notified the manufacturer, then I want them to acknowledge the problem and tell me when it will be fixed. I don't think that's unreasonable so I'm not sure what others are arguing against. Perhaps just for the sake of arguing? If so, then some of you are useful idiots to DTG. Don't you want better communication and products or are many of you just happy to sit in the dark and hand over your money in Pavlovian response to the latest DLC? Think some need reminding that they are the customer and DTG want your money. Well they have to earn mine.

    I'm happy to hold DTG to account. Let them say "No, we aren't going to provide a list of bug fixes". Stop letting them off the hook. They are big enough to respond or do some see themselves as a kind of saviour hoping to curry favour with them?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 4
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    No, we're just realists who live in a world where saying for example "we are aware of this issue and will have it fixed on X date" will cause as many issues as saying nothing (which has been proven time and again)

    If YOU want better communication in all facets of your life, good for you, it's a laudable goal, but realistically there is no reason why DTG would want to, nor would it benefit them in any way
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    No, it sounds like you have become very used to poor customer service. And you accept it and hand over your money anyway. Nothing will change if you continue this way.

    What's been proven time and time again? As long as it is fixed on X date, what's the problem? And if it really causes as many issues as saying nothing, again, what's the problem? And issues for whom? For DTG, for the customer?

    I've already explained how it will benefit them. Are you seriously suggesting that better communication is a bad thing for customers? That really isn't my experience.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I haven't said any such thing, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. I am saying that communication of the nature you're suggesting WOULDN'T necessarily be constructive on either side, in fact we have a good example in the editor for DTG where when there is communication people say it's not enough, and when there isn't, they say it's not enough

    People don't necessarily want words, they want actions
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    You seem to be throwing a whole lot of negative on what is a very positive first post in this thread. How about we try it and see? As far as I'm aware, the editor is a future product, not a fault in an existing product. Yes, people do want actions but they also want to know when or even if that action will happen and that gets conveyed through communication. That's what we are not getting enough of and if it continues it will ultimately hurt DTG and it's not good for us that want TSW to improve and have money waiting for them.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    And when they get told that they will just idly sit back and wait?

    And this is absolutist. There's a whole grey area between "positive" and "negative". I haven't said communication would be either. I've said it wouldn't be beneficial, or even helpful UNLESS the fix is already there and they're announcing when it will be put out, but even then people want it sooner and to know every little detail
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    643
    I can't tell you what others would do but speaking for myself, yes, I would sit back and wait for the fix to happen and be thankful for the communication. And then provided it gets done on time, I'll be a satisfied customer.

    I'm calling you negative, I'm not pre-judging what the response to such a bug fix schedule would be. My gut feeling is it will be taken positively and a vast improvement on silence which you seem to be arguing is better. And for the life of me, I don't understand why.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,423
    Likes Received:
    18,140
    I think most of us can agree that we want better communication from DTG. However it’s been like this since day one, and despite multiple requests for it, nothing has changed.

    It seems they’re too stuck in their ways.

    ‘A leopard never changes its spots’
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Yet another food fight.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page