The weird thing is, they actually did create some really nice LU speed signs for Bakerloo when it came out a few years back, correct font etc.I thought great, we're actually going to get updated speed signs for the rest of UK rail.....I thought wrong.
Each to their own, not everyone wants to have a route that has as many glaring issues as this route does. MKC is a bad endpoint because the 390 barely has any proper action south of there but go off I guess. Can’t judge people for willingly sitting with mediocrity
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my post. I like a good Volvo too, although recent models lack the character of the Amazon and 240/260. Not up to the latest standards but does the job.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on my post. MKC as those in the industry refer to it is a little short for the 390 but plenty long enough for the 350.
Tis the way its been for years! I remember playing my old mega drive, if I wasn't happy about the quality of a game, well I could send them a letter and get no response! Be grateful dtg do actually have a forum and take some of our suggestions on board.
A good chunk of 350 services run fast to Milton Keynes tbh so it negates it a little bit. Rugby would have ultimately been better off
This thread hasn’t told you how to feel at all, so stop acting like it’s somehow anyone’s fault that they give constructive criticism on a route that so obviously needs it. Sure, if you can find happiness in a route boasting a very lacking timetable, very broken features (some of which have been around since tsw 2!) and a very clearly rushed quality then go ahead, but your inability to care about a quality experience doesn’t mean others won’t notice the obvious. Fact is that TSW is a train simulator, meaning to immerse you in the belief you are actually driving on that route in real life, and all the aforementioned and lots more are huge immersion killers that take you out of gameplay, and for a staggering £54 pounds to play in a route that was advertised as “busy” and talked up as a quality product feels at the very least underwhelming. Like I said, if you can deal with that, go ahead, it’s ur money, but don’t come in here acting like people told u what to think
Tbh I don’t, I don’t think they are bad developers, when they are given products within their capabilities they do great at it, I seem to remember that the Bernina line was actually well received despite people being ready to blitz it. But if it is true that DTG gave timetable work to Rivet, I’m sorry but they are both gonna take warranted backlash. It should be obvious by now that whenever they are given heavy projects that carry a proper weight to the timetable they fumble. On E2G they had some leverage to say it’s not our fault a little as they didn’t have a proper scotrail dmu, but when fife came there was no excuse. Barely any ai with the 385 at Edinburgh, no use of the main depot for the 170s and they flat out missed the entire Cowdenbeath service pattern! IF dovetail did actually outsource that work to them however then they should get the criticism really, what I’ve said here should be obvious to experienced developers
But reality is factual, meaning we can devise a baseline for immersion based out of what is meant to be there, so if for example a 4tph service with the 710s to Watford has big gaps in that timetable, we can reference what actually occurs in reality and base immersion from what didn’t happen in the sim that did in real life
Again, immersion is subjective, and by that very definition cannot have a baseline I am immersed in the driving of a train in the cab stopping at stations picking up passengers You are immersed by counting the number of trains that pass you Not everyone is equal, and different people find themselves immersed by different things - this is a fact
Fair enough, would have added Northampton Loop and Daventry. But then someone would have wanted an extension to Coventry, Birmingham, Soho Depot, Crewe, Holyhead and a Bryan Ferry all the way to Ireland!
Have a look at the speed limit signs on the Bakerloo Line and the East Coastway. Then compare to routes in and after Rush Hour. We used to have the correct font, but it changed for development ease.
But your perfectly fine with certain members of of this forum near enough telling people what they should and shouldn't be spending their own money on, just because they don't like the company that made this game....... Clearly sarcasm isn't a language you speak fluently, unlike some of us here......
Be nice folks. If you're enjoying it - hurray! If you're not, that's unfortunate, but that's fine too! Nobody's wrong here unless you're trying to tell others what they enjoy. Chill out and play trains, whether it's this route or another. Matt.
People have literally said "don't buy this product because I don't like it", then proceeded to attack those who dare go against them.
Hi Alfie, Thank you for your comprehensive reply to my post. My comments were very much tongue in cheek, hey I even remembered the smiley for once! No one here influenced my decision to buy or not to buy. And immersion means different things to different people and coming from the era of Southern Belle on the Spectrum 48k perhaps my standards are a little lower than some people. Anyway, happy to agree to disagree, enjoy your weekend!
There’s a reason this dlc isn’t called “some busy line” or “line that happens to have a lot of traffic”, it’s because this dlc is called the WCML, because it’s called that we can take that this is a line trying to simulate immersion on the west coast mainline. If it was called anything else and didn’t reference the area and just said “some busy line” I wouldnt fight it, honestly this line is busy, but that’s not what I paid for, neither anyone else, they paid for the west coast mainline. Your right, immersion is subjective, we can all be immersed in different ways by different things, but we are all here to comment on one point of immersion that isn’t living up to it’s potential, the west coast main line, and we are all here to share criticism as to why that immersion isn’t something we feel. If others have found other outlooks of immersion they didn’t pay for but are getting, then cool, the one we payed for is however is a recreation of the west coast mainline, not a half attempt at what it might be like
One thought, since Class 730s are being introduced on the WCML right now may that be the reason DTG didn't feel the need to have more than 30 350s in the long run, since if that gets made as an add on there would be 730s and 350s, after the /2s are withdrawn there will only be 20 additional 350 numbers that we don't already have. A 730 pack could also layer onto the BCC, so it would be a bit of a 2 in 1 expansion.
Makes me wonder if the gaps in the 710 timetable are in anticipation for another London Overground line including a 378 to layer in. I think 378s are still the primary traction on the Watford DC? Edit: I found a drivers eye view from 2023, never mind its all 710s.
Unfortunately you undermine your entire post by using the word "we". While there are others here that share your viewpoint, there are also a sizeable amount of others present that do not. Discussing what you don't find immersive is of course absolutely fine, but everyone here is not part of some hivemind that dictates one opinion is better or worse than another. You find that the fact the timetable does not reflect real life immersion-breaking. I do not. My opinion is not better than yours, and your opinion is not better than mine, it is simply different, and that is also a fact
True, it irritates me a tad, knowing the route is generally going to be a bit of a boring green light fest until the extra layers arrive to give signalling variety.
If your standards are a bit lower that’s totally fine, I get just enjoying the other parts like the pendo u know? All I’m saying is that for something that’s advertised as a recreation there’s nothing wrong with being critical of something u bought and then saying “hey that doesn’t feel right”, and while it may not be a dealbreaker for some, for others it’s not really fair they pay for a level of immersion only to not get it. I do get what u mean for example on the branding, but I’m more fine with it not being there because it wasn’t a failure in production as much as it was unlucky, for that one I’ll give it to DTG, I don’t know if they could’ve foreseen an operator pulling their permission at the last minute! For everything else however it just screams rushed, and while yes it’s not gamebreaking or unplayable, the hype of owning a line that is prompting a new line to built solely to take traffic off of this line only for it to be half finished is a hard pill to swallow. Appreciate your kind tone btw, never know how these posts will go!
While I haven't looked, by chance does the tube route mirror the original Bakerloo timetable? I ask due to two observations: 1. A lot of services terminate Queens Park from the underground section, my assumption is these may not be present as AI 2. The OG Bakerloo timetable was quiet too, and the one that your hero and mine Joe made is much much busier
Just finished the first Journey Scenario at Watford Jn. Couldn't wait to get back in the 390 this time for a run to MKC.
Was it just a timetable run equivalency again? I really do wish all scenarios had some event or unusual circumstance occurring them
While I didn’t write we assuming that’s what everyone wanted, I took we from just making a simple assumption, which is that people wanted a realistic product. If that’s not an opinion held by others then that’s ok, but this thread even being here shows that there is interest in presenting feedback, and a sizeable amount of posts made in at least two separate forums spanning lots of pages in each have given lots of feedback to big aspects about this route linking to immersion, so you could say I made a judgement that there is a lot of discontent with at the very least how realistic this route is to the real thing. You are right that my opinion does not trump others no the other way around, but my point wasn’t that my opinion is king compared to others, my point is that a very large amount of people at some level are dissatisfied with the route, an assumption I’m making based on the amount of pages of threads, a poll made literally asking about wether the timetable should be fixed and dovetail themselves responding to this feedback saying they will do something about some of the concerns, in which they listed what they’d be fixing. While yes, you are right that some may not consider the above immersion breaking, considering the overwhelming amount of feedback which would go against that opinion (not making it true) I’d say it’s more likely that people are taking the lack of reality with the timetable badly, which really why should’t they? Anyway ima tap out for a bit, my hound needs walking lol
Unrelated to the discussion, but if you're going to make a post as long as this one, some paragraphs wouldn't go amiss.
The problem with using "we" in the context that you did, is that it feeds the egos of those who shout the loudest on these forums (and there are a lot of shouters). This amplfies the perception that anyone that doesn't kowtow to their line of thinking is at best wrong, and at worst inferior. Unfortunately you are also guilty of this with your usage of the "lower standards" in another post. We are all playing the same game, and as with opinions, "standards" are different for every individual here. One's position on what they deem as acceptable (their "standard") does not make it lower/worse or higher/better than another person's. Enjoy the walk
First Journey is a scenario where you take a 390 ECS into Euston then work a special train to Watford, but other than a few messages nothing out of the ordinary - no Emily Turner or anything!
As usual you find a way to talk twaddle. Might as well make fictional routes if it doesn’t matter if everything isnt proper and correct, there’s no need to advertise it as a sim either.
Ah was this the 390 journey rather than the route journey? Nice that they have multiple units (I assume) in one scenario, but does sound like it could be beefed up a bit On an Emily Turner related note, has anyone come across any AI voices yet, and if so how are they? Are we talking Amiga Narrator style or the stunted Google maps voice, or perhaps something completely different?
Ah dear Freddie (I’m guessing you are a corrie fan) reality does indeed exist, and I’m looking forward to not investing in tsw for a while. I’ll let you little lot take the hit and I’ll pick it up as and when it’s at the quality required.
And I hope you enjoy it, whatever shortcomings it may have! Unfortunately I am also not purchasing it, but I will enjoy (hopefully) the new core features that make their way into old routes when the free version arrives
Likewise ref your post above about the free update (im loath to call it an upgrade as I havent seen anything that suggests it is one), but I thought the context of standards interesting, so heres my take on it. If there's problems like lighting, floating cars, glowing carriages etc that even DTG have acknowledged as problems, then we can safely say that they are indicators of poor quality. It depends on how ferociously one wants to defend mediocrity I suppose, but I think a better product that resolves these issues is possible, and thus worthwhile pursuing as a goal.
I dont think anyone is defending the individual things you mentioned (which indeed, are poor and shouldn't have been missed), but individually and grouped together, do not make a product mediocre. There are (at least) two measures of quality here; the standard by which it is judged compared to previous products (eg. did a previous route have glowing objects? If not, then the older route on that metric is better), and one's own personal standard (eg. Do I like the number of services on the route? Yes/no/don't care as appropriate) If a product meets one's own standard, then that is all that matters. Equally, if it doesn't, that is also all that matters. What does matter, is that people should not be criticising others for not aligning with their own standards. I have strong negative feelings towards ready salted crisps (honestly they're the devil's own spawn) but I don't judge other people for liking them
