It might be difficult to contemplate for you, but people might actually be enjoying the game? Remember not everyones overly critical opinions are the same as yours. The WCML for me is really enjoyable with all the extra layers, especially the 710 (my personal favourite). Could the WCML better, sure. It’s only early access remember, plenty of improvements to follow. “Keep those route feedback comments coming”.
Long time lurker Been playing WCML since early release and I have to say I’ve enjoyed it despite some critical points I could make. I’ve had x1 crash just before Euston Station and x1 crash whilst being a conductor but apart from that it’s run well on my Xbox Series S and I’ve completed around 16 services. Just completed the 9G49 22:58 Euston to Wolverhampton on the Class 390 which was fun. You are on the slow line to past Watford, traverse onto the high speed line going 125mph for a section passing a freight train and then traverse back onto the slow line for the last few miles. Nice trip!
On PS5 playing conductor mode on a Milton Keynes to Euston service, mostly fine apart from the game becoming extremely laggy when pulling into a couple of stations, but everything back to normal once the service came to a stop and the doors opened. Though the service crashed shortly before arrival into Euston. However when it was raining it looked like the symbols marking someone needing a ticket check, had the rain effect applied to the symbol that was INSIDE the train. Image attached.
Strnge .. others on PS5 are having success running TSW5 .. wonder what the difference is? I do hope it gets worked out for you soon.
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but if so I haven't spotted it: There's clearly some serious work gone into that. Some will say the effort should have been put into a more complete timetable etc, but the developers doing scenery probably aren't the same ones doing the trains or the timetable. (Taken without the benefit of Jetwash's excellent mod )
From the September issue of "Wild, Baseless Conjecture Magazine" games' section. "DTG were forced to sub-contract work on their big UK release this summer because they're busy making an amazing version of the London, Tilbury, Southend line with a mix of Electrostars and Class 312s". When asked DTG Matt P might have said "WCML will be great when we've fixed the usual pre-release bugs, but frankly our next English release [a 2002 version of C2C) is just going to blow WCML out of the water with its mix of one-handle Electrostars, tradition slam door electric units, proper guard roles on the older ex-BR stock and all sorts of freight workings." "We've ignored Essex for far too long and doing an older version of a route avoids licensing issues, we're based in Kent but we wish we lived on the trendy side of the Thames estuary" a highly respected DTG Director might have added. Some of the above might be not be true.
I have never played a game in early-access that is so buggy/unfinished, some platforms are not even level with the train and you have to actually climb on. 1 platform i was on was slanted at a angle. LNWR branding is still in game at various locations. When making a scenario you cant edit the description half way through as it just resets your typing cursor so u have to re-write it all AND the scenarios don't load, i just get spawned at random locations, i noticed some of the 390 interior doors dont close even after waiting a few minutes. I mean, i might sound like a karen but im gonna be picky if i have spent £60 on a game. Why is there AI on closed platforms but then a empty Euston station at rushour. AI Trains spawning with no interior lights on, even when playing as guard. Shambles!
Immersion for me is ruined by trains always taking the same platforms, Weather taking a stormy turn every few minutes, no reverb under bridges and tunnels, massive stations empty, DB operating all modern UK freight, Steam locos doing 90 with the Cut off wound all the way to full, trains being dispatched on red signals, trains with red lamps on the front etc. CHOOSE YOUR BUNDLE!
It'll be interesting to see if DTG can break the cycle of promised patches failing to appear. It'll be a promising sign if they can rapidly overhaul the most common legitimate complaints. I think though that this iterations forum cycle is almost complete. If a meaningful and comprehensive set of improvements and fixes is not forthcoming, we will be able to conclude its still very much and literally business as usual at DTG. If fixes do arrive, it will demonstrate that feedback is useful, the bar can be raised higher, and that the debate about rushed over the line output is a valid one to have.
Had to stifle a cough watching the DadRail stream just now on the exercise bike. Two instances of AWS warning sounding approaching a green signal and no reproach at all. Think he was enjoying the Pendolino too much to notice, which being fair is probably the best part of the WCML experience. As I’ve said it’s not a bad route and not worth boycotting TSW5 over, but let’s see if Rivet and DTG can raise what I would put currently as 5.5/10 somewhat higher.
The lighting in tunnels is interesting. Jump to 1h.08m in the video below... I'm happy I've held off on this. It's looking fundamentally good, but having lighting like that is very poor. The route itself looks very very quiet, not just in timetable terms but more a sort of general lifelessness, and my tongue in cheek Covid Lockdown Edition comment appears accurate. Stop markers missing and signalling errors make it hard for hudless play, and several immersion breaking jarring moments of which the lighting is one make me happy with that hold off purchase decision. Free update and wait is my personal assessment, and I fully appreciate that others may be happy with their choice to purchase. I will point out we've been here before with TSW4, TSW3 etc and atm I see zero reason for DTG to change their rushed approach to release strategy.
I have to say that I have been having some great fun on this route. I did my first MKC to EUS doing conductor mode, left MKC with 1 ticke to check and then the next stop was EUS. I even managed to get minus points because I forgot I changed the date and then wrongly checked that said ticket. So I think that conductor mode comes to the 390s. Whilst I was looking for collectables I did notice that the railings on the end of MKC are non collision, also I fell through some steps at one of the stations. I also think the torch needs to brighten things up better and I could hardly see still when using it at night. Now if anybody who is 100% for the scenery, seeing passing trains and also lighting, May I recommend another simulator to try. It is by a company called Dee-Kay softwear and is available for free from the world of spectrum website. One of the games is called Royal Scot, and you have to drive from EUS to Crewe. Now there are no 390s or 350s as the game is set in the mid 80s. This is because the game was made in the Mid 80s. So it is Class 87s. Just out of intrest if anybody does play it. I would like to know what you think of the graphics. Well when I say graphics I mean the coloured dot for a signal. I am not having a dig, nor trying to upset anybody but would be interesting to find what people think of one of the sims I grew up with.
Yes it’s all relative. Contrast even this flawed WCML with what Simudrive offered us in the 90’s. Or the Amiga (Emulator) Train Driver 3 which had the full route from Euston to Glasgow but the at best rudimentary cab view with simple monotone blocks and a single white sound whine for the Class 86 or 87. That’s not to say WCMLS shouldn’t be everything it can be, but we would have given anything for these sort of graphics in 1999.
That’s a smaller list than I was expecting. You’re not wrong though. From experience it’s always best to choose a different month/time of the year if you’re getting too many stormy transitions. Matt has mentioned this many of times on stream.
But we're not in the 1980s, or 1999. We're 25+ years later. The issues we've seen in WCML even DTG have acknowledged are not good enough. Excusing mediocrity by referring to 30 year old games as a comparative standard is an astounding proposition tbh. Opportunity missed for this year's relaunch. DTG have probably not seen a significant downtick in sales and so next year the same cycle will occur. Just don't be surprised or disappointed when it does.
I could extend it, but have many times mentioned things that I find take away from.the experience and it now looks like TSW has gone in a direction that I can't get on with so will observe for a bit while getting my kicks in TSC, Glasgow in the 90s with 303s, 314s, 156s, 85s, 86s, 87s, 90s etc West Highland with 37s, and more. TSW seems to obsess over the modern and mundane with only JT attempting to reverse that but even then JT can't quite match the TSC rolling stock stables.
A new steam sale focusing on trains, planes and locomotives is happening in less than 12 hours. I plan to expand my collection with both modern and older era content. Good chance for you too to snag some deals too.
Another fault I've found is, when playing in the 390/0 that the stop car markers set for it at Watford Junction heading north are incorrect and need to be brought further up the platform. If I had used the stop car markers currently in the game a few carriages at the rear of the train would have been left overhanging beyond the end of the platform...
PS5 just told me I’d completed all the scenarios on WCML south and awarded me a nice trophy, the problem is I’ve only done half of them.
TSW5 with 50% off on day one? Would be wonderful . I'm considering getting goblin or Fife circle or Blackpool branches, not sure yet... anyway, I've gone off topic
I think everybody will agree we are all passionate about our hobby and enjoy playing TSW despite our differences in opinions, we are certainly all train fans at heart. However, we have become use to a certain high standard that DTG have proven they can do and as result they have blown us away with it. So, when these standards that DTG previously achieved are not met, things may get a little heated, DTG are a victim of their own success, but feedback is never personal and should never be taken as such. Feedback is given not to step on anybody's toes, but to help TSW be as good as we know it can be, to help get it over the line for sure.
I think it is a bit like people supporting a football team, you dare not say anything against their football team, even if their team keeps missing the goal.
Hear hear. DTG have set their own yardstick with the likes of Suffragette, San Bernadino and Frankfurt-Fulda - it's not the playerbase asking for something that isn't achievable. DTG have done this to themselves by, we believe, farming at least parts of the route design, and timetable, out to 'Partners' who either weren't up to the job or couldn't deliver on time, or both. From the Dev Diary videos, I'm sure at least the 390 was done in-house, and probably the 350 too, which is why there are fewer complaints about them. I've no problem with subcontracting, but that's a choice that should mean no quality disruption to the consumer if you're presenting the work as your own (and this is branded as a first-party route). WCMLS fails to meet the standard that DTG have set this year when lined up against its peers. For what it's worth, my purchase is held back.
Thanks dude, if players go to the effort of posting, I feel they should get a reply to them alone, only manners.
Just bought TSW5 deluxe edition and now my entire family is screaming at me for spending too much on this game,
That's why I sneak the odd spare £5 note into the back of my wallet, then when I've got £20 set aside, "Off for a bike ride, dear", then rock up at Asda or Sainsburys and buy a £20 Steam wallet gift card. Avoids all sorts of angst...
Just my tuppence worth and apologies if it has been mentioned already. The slow lines should be 110 mph max, they've been that speed for years. Suspension seems too horse and cartish, if your train has airbag suspension it is more bouncy it's more like your driving a pre suspension change rail hammering AC loco! The bridge and tunnel reverb is way too quiet with the cab windows open and it goes quieter the faster you go which does not happen in reality.
Hi all, I'm planning to get WCML on release date. Without sparking a huge argument...what's everyone's general take on the timetable? How sparse are we talking? I can deal with the odd 710 missing on the DC lines - but not miles and miles of deserted track.
There are services missing and it's quite flawed but I still think its quite busy, and with a good variety. My main problem is the wrong calling pattern for some services. In an ideal world, a new timetable would be scratch made by DTG and released as an update, but the current one is OK for now.
As follows: Class 350 Most but not all services present, several service types have missing intermediate stops (especially around rush hour, where real services will commonly make additional stops), and timings are slacker than reality particularly on the fast services due to calculated rather than real-world timings being used (this means that for instance, most of the in-game Euston to Crewe services have an arrival time in TSW of something like 4.5 minutes later than reality, despite the real world timings being manageable if you drive competently). Some of the less frequent service types (eg. a service from Euston to St Albans at around 4pm) are missing entirely from the timetable. All services except Crewe-bound services are inaccurately 4 cars only instead of 8 cars as they would usually be in the real world. There are no 12-car services that I've found, and none of the services as far as I can see involve any coupling or uncoupling. Class 390 Most services present, timings after departure are slacker than reality due to calculated timings used rather than real-world timings. No Class 805 services are present in the timetable, only services that would be a 390 in reality (this isn't necessarily a bad thing but you should be aware). Class 710 Most services missing (approx 2/3 of the timetable is missing), with several 90-minute gaps between services in the middle of the day 72 Tube Stock Most services missing (approx 2/3 of the timetable is missing) with again large gaps Class 377/2 All but two services from reality are present (36 out of 38 services). Class 66 Most scheduled freight services are present, but instead of being as per reality with regards to the stock used, absolutely everything is intermodal freight (including, hilariously, 1S24 which is a Class 325 EMU in reality). Additionally, the appropriate maximum speeds for each freight headcode classification are ignored entirely, so you will frequently come across a Class 66 running a Class 6 freight on the slow lines at 100mph. I would not recommend this DLC in any way to anyone who cares remotely about the accuracy of freight services. It's quite easy to get stranded on the Watford DC line when playing a continuous session unless you use fast travel or are happy to wait for significant periods between services (45 minutes to an hour or more, even with both 710 and 72TS present). I have personally driven a 710 southbound from Watford to Euston and encountered just a single Tube service coming the other way over the whole trip. There are very, very few AI services to speak of, so don't expect many St Albans Abbey services at Watford (although I have seen one or two) and I don't think there are any North London Line services at all at Willesden Junction. In summary The main line is something approaching busy enough but there are several problems with timing, and the Watford DC line is very underserved. Freight is very inaccurate.
Having just drove a mid afternoon northbound DC lines service I concur with the above. I passed two tube trains, one in the turn back siding at Harrow and Wealdstone c/w passengers! I passed two other class 710's. The DC lines timetable is too quiet for sure. The actual service is fun to drive especially with the trains rushing past on the AC lines. I hadn't realised the timetable timings was not real world but calculated, I feel that this shouldn't be happening now. I still think the route is decent and does potentially have a lot of variety with the DC lines, stopping service on the AC lines, fast trains and freight, plus the tube trains, although I personally wouldn't bother driving those, I would just drive on Bakerloo. However the timetable does let it down, the thought of 100mph freight trains is ridiculous. It certainly isn't a timetable which matches DTG's usual offerings. If they can sort the timetable out (although I feel it could do with a new one with correct timings) and of course fix the lighting issues and other route bugs (which I am sure they will) then this could be one of the best routes in the sim potentially.
Echoing what others have said already, I don't like the way freight has been set up on this route. I've always disliked UK freight in TSW, mainly due to the sole freight loco we currently have, the 66. This route was the perfect opportunity to make freight interesting, but it was clearly just an afterthought. Why weren't any new wagons included, or better, a different loco? Freight is such an integral part of the WCML, but it sees the short end of the stick yet again.
The poor cousin if you like. Yeah, some nice freight wagons, maybe like cars on train wagons or pipes. Dare I say new freight loco?
Skyhook can potentially help out with that on their upcoming packs. Personally I’m hoping that container pack will include the Tesco rakes, combo’d with the DRS66. I know there’s obviously an issue with licensing which is why we don’t see Freightliner, GBRF & Maritime (which would be far more realistic for recent UK routes), but someone really needs to get a focus put on the UK freight locos. 92’s, 90’s 88’s, 70’s 68’s & 60’s are sorely needed.
To anyone holding off… I get why you’re doing so, I really do. However, Fulda and San Bernardino are really excellent and there’s a lot of gameplay there. WCMLS is not good enough by a long chalk but it’s not unplayable and it is enjoyable. It will be a nice route when it gets put in to the state it should have released in, officially or unofficially. The 390, in particular, is beautiful and a blast to drive. Although it may stick in your craw for all the reasons we know and love I’d say the 2 good routes alone are worth the £54. The 390 is excellent. WCMLS is a bonus route that is enjoyable and will get better. None of it excuses the problems, but I honestly don’t think you’d regret buying it. There are mods out there that improve things already and that will only grow as time goes on. I don’t regret buying it even with everything that’s been said. I just wish it didn’t all need saying.
That's true, but for those who have little interest in German or US Routes, there's not much value there for 54 quid. Even with interest, floating cars on the US route are just too poor when the highway parallels the railway for significant chunks. Once seen, the eyes are always going to those floating cars and immediately I start feeling like an idiot for buying something so LOVE, despite the excellent work done elsewhere. Likewise all the other well documented issues. I'm just tired of going through the same sorry saga every year now so screw it, the wallet stays shut So yeah, not convinced.
Well said. My only gripe with wcml is the poor timetable. I imagine it will be put right at some point. I certainly don't warrant avoiding it.
Once I see fixes for the lighting in tunnels on the wcml, in Euston and other issues, I'll buy happily at full price. If they don't get fixed, I've got other options to spend my money on. Train sims are not my only gaming interest and within the genre Century of Steam should release into early access soon.
Rubbish! I'm married and I can spend as much of my money as I wish, as long as the Mrs gives me permission!
Have to agree. About the freight. Also there are two services that are Sellafield and.dungeness to Crewe. They are Nuclear flask trains run by DRS. There's also an Old Dalby to Old Oak Common ECS listed as an intermodal. IMHO the route does have its good points and I like it, but it does have a lot not flaws operationally. But the freight timetable needs to be ripped up and redone. Also use the other rolling stock that comes with the other routes. The RHTT, Railtours, etc etc. Not only that static consists around Wembley and Willsden Yards. The people who did this timetable obviously never bothered to check Google maps to see what type of rolling stock was in the yards. Also they never checked RTT properly either. Hentis
Yeah, good point, but the only route I was interested in was wcml and from what I have seen the quality in the live streams and the feedback players have left on here about crashes. So, until DTG fix all of this I stand steady in terms of not buying TSW5. I didn't make this mess, so I will wait.
