Me and my wife call them Vomiters. I'm an enthusiast and hate them, my wife isn't an enthusiast in anyway shape or form, to her a train is a mode of transport to take us from A to B (Though she does have a soft spot for the Deltic and 33s lol) and she detests Voyagers. If we are going by train anywhere she'll avoid travelling on them at all cost.
Bad odours, vibration, poor seating layout, always overcrowded, atmosphere like an overcrowded late 90s McDonald’s. The list is long.
And they replaced relatively capacious and comfortable HST's and loco hauled consists. In some ways Cross Country followed the Regional Railways doctrine of replacing longish loco hauled formations with short units, then tried to justify by saying the service was more frequent. Maybe on the core sections but when a 4 car Voyager turns up at Truro on the Penzance to Aberdeen with all the seats either occupied or reserved, not the best travel experience.
Personally my main experience with Voyagers has been the VT/AWC 221’s from North Wales & along with 158’s they’ve been one of my favourite sets to travel on. Of course the NWC journeys are in comparison to overcrowded 2 car sprinters that TFW deem acceptable. That being said, I do prefer the 197’s now to the 805’s. Conversely the few times I’ve been on an XC 220 they’ve been the worst journeys I’ve had, they are woeful for the journeys they put them on, essentially 3 car consists too if you minus off 1st Class. Little off topic but it would be shame if we never got a 221 for the WCML:S. Now the 805’s are on scene I think DTG will be more partial to doing those.
Yes, I personally have found the Voyagers quite good. Overcrowding is something we can't really change about them right now so I don't factor it much, but the seats are quite and looks good. However I've only been surrounded by the commuter trains (the usual 444/450s, 700s/387s), very rarely ever taken the high speed trains.
Always avoided Voyagers on WCML services too, Pendolinos slightly better but only by a fraction. When we looked at replacing Mk2s and Mk3s we should have gone with something that had the ambience of the German ICE 3, modern and spacious and longer. Not short and cramped. The tilt mechanism was pointless on the XC ones, overall a train introduced with the usual bluster of being modern and frequent etc but the reality is when compared to what came before and what is on offer internationally they are awful.
I suffered the hell of a Voyager to Birmingham yesterday. It was noisy (engine under the floor), it constantly vibrated, it lacked air conditioning and the seats were about as comfortable as sitting on a spike. The bad news is they are going to be refurbished rather than scrapped so we will be stuck with these very expensive "budget" trains for years.
Yes, unfortunately they will probably be around for a while yet, Scotrail are supposed to be getting rid of the Intercity7s so could see the 222s being in the frame. Back on topic I hope JT are not producing the Voyagers for TSW although it's their right to produce whatever they like. I'm very much an observer in TSW now hoping it turns a better corner after seeing TSW5 firmly entrench itself in gimmick land.
Has that been confirmed? Wonder what will happen to the MK5As TPE had, Chiltern seems like a nice option since they already are familiar with the 68s.
I'd imagine it'll be an APT, as it'd sell quite well. Out of interest, what services did the APT run (all I know is that it wasn't much).
I think it ran one return Euston - Glasgow per day for a short time, for trial purposes. It wasn’t a timetabled service - it was additional to the normal timetable - but the public could board it.
Ah, I thought it was confirming some replacement stock like the 222. IIRC the lease ends for the HSTs in 2030, doesn't seem to hint of an earlier retirement.
I think if they can get shut earlier they will, maybe last until 2030 which is 6 years from now. So a brand new train could be ordered and shook down by 2030 easy or second hand stock but that too would take a while with crew training and refurbishment possibly being needed. The Intercity7s have brought a comfortable style train to routes that for years often saw overcrowding with tourists carrying large back packs and cycles so what comes next may be specced to offer similar facilities. I'm not sure that Scotrail will want to go back to a 2 car unit on Highland Mainline daytime services.
I think Scotrail will try and push it earlier. Supposedly the HSTs are the most expensive stock to maintain to the point it wouldn't be unreasonable to terminate the contract early. I dont know how true that statement is but wouldn't be surprised as they are coming up close to 50 years! I heard 43128 re-entered service a couple days ago after not being in use for a while, but failed on the same day - resulted in the service being replaced with a 2 car. I think another issue that adds onto the whole cost issue is the WSP upgrades being undertaken right now, supposedly the GW power cars were never fitted with the more modern variant while the other regions power cars were, hence they are having it done now. Let's hope SR do get a worthy successor to the HST in terms of comfortability, I don't think it would be too hard to excel in terms of reliability against the HSTs right now. XD Just searched it up, it was the 1A79 0930 Edinburgh - Aberdeen, got swapped for a 158 at Dundee.
With a lot of people hedging their bets on an 86 for the dlc I thought I'd share this I came across on YouTube! Really interesting overview Great little video at the end of an 86 pulling away at the end is worth a listen!
Front runners are the 25 or 86. Personally the 25 just edges it but 86 would be cool too. What did the 25s do back then? Any passenger duties? Double heading?
Much as I would like a Class 25, by 1986 the fleet was being wound down to eventual withdrawal in 1987. With a bit of artistic licence they would be seen on the longer distance trip freights around Carlisle and Preston but not much else. Which leaves the Class 86 IMHO as the likely front runner. If the route was set back in 1981 or 82 then the Class 25 would be far more widespread.
Didn't Kingmoor have the small fleet of 25/9's which if I recall were mainly for engineers trains? That could make for some interesting services especially as some still ran with brake vans if memory serves me. I definitely recall seeing some (trains with brake vans) at Stourbridge junction in the 80's.
A split-box Class 40 is a must, also a headcode box Class 20. They are unfinished without those. What about a Black 5 to go with the 8F?. The most numerous mainline loco after the 8F...
The Class 20 and 40 variants you mentioned are long overdue. Surely this is a simple remodeling of the original versions. It is silly things like this that could have been done from the start in order to save on resources later on.
All variants should ideally be created, mixed 25/1, 25/2 or 25/3 locos working in multiple were very common.
They could easily get away with a 25 if the route is set mid 1986 - there were still 30-odd of them in service then, all subclasses except 25/0, all concentrated in the North West.
The 86 is used on TSC as the star of the route. Didn't they already say it was the 86 in a press release anyway?
The 86 came with the Carlisle to Glasgow section, the 87 came with the section JT are modelling. The class 87's were built for the Euston to Glasgow service after the electrification was complete in 1974 so it is right and 87 comes with this pack. I believe even after the class 90 was introduced class 87's were still the dominant loco on the Anglo-Scottish right up till the Pendolinos replaced the loco hauled services. WCML in 1986 without a class 86 is not realistic though.
To be fair, they're almost the same loco. They look near identical; the 87 just had more power. Even the 90s don't seem all that different except in body styling. Which, I guess is really important to some people. Would be cool to have a "tap changer" on a UK line but I still will prolly drive the 47 most of the time on it.
Saw this picture of a Class 50 a while ago, maybe 2-3 years like that. I don’t know who made this but it would be great to have it, in TSW and if possible by JT.
A class 50 would be wonderful but we don't really have a decent route to realistically run one on. WCL is half a route and is set really after they were gone from there. Plus it's flawed with silly layers and the other issues. WCML is set over a decade after they were sent down south, plus they were in their pre-refurbished guide. And diesel legends for me is not a substitute for a proper BR western region route. Ideally one would come with a South Devon route or something similar.
DLoGW is not suitable for 50’s anyway as it is meant to be 1971, 5 years prior to the arrival of the 50’s.
I would consider getting TSC and the JT products. All available now. JTs Cornish mainline isn't too bad for giving them a run, far better than the TSW monstrosity.
Yeah I still go back to TSC for a few bits, I may have a look but I’ve just done a hefty PC upgrade & haven’t got round to reinstalling TSC yet, after the TSW PS5 transition I’m not sure I have the energy this week.
I'm now BR stuff TSC and TSW for European (mainly German) basically as I have collected with a bias on each sim in those areas. Despite JTs efforts which are great (Blackpool) it isn't as good as having APs 37 packs and the like with all the rolling stock. TSW is miles behind with BR UK DLC and thanks the mainly modern only policy isn't likely to catch up soon. Routes such as WCML North still provide great entertainment with enhancement packs used. I will watch JTs WCML with interest but am put off by the fact I already have it in TSC.
Supposed to be. However in 1971 class 45's and 47's would have been showing headcodes not plated over headcode boxes, a 45 would have been very rare too. The local DMU's would have been plain blue and would not have been Met-Camms.
Yeah that’s really what puts me off going over to TSC for anything more than I already have. It’s just a lot of faffing around with EP’s, dependencies & other gubbins. I find TSW is much better at ‘scratching an itch’, whereas TSC is much better at giving a singular, focused experience. I pretty much exclusively use TSC for anything Wales related & find I get a very consistent experience, whereas when I try to move to another region/era I have to dig around for stuff to get a good experience out of it. JT seem to be taking TSW more seriously than DTG, but I do fear they’re ultimately going to lose their battle with it, TSW is just progressively becoming more & more casual IMO.
TSW has gone for guard mode, photo mode, route hopping, fast travel. None of which have any real operating relevance, I was expecting an upgrade to the dispatcher which mirrors real life being able to route trains and prioritise better than the rigid one we have. I think though DTG have found the market they want and supply it with shiny new trains and gimmicks. I am usually found in TSC quick drive as its close to random if set up right, the last thing that mirrors realism is for me is having a timetable that everything strictly adheres to. Scenarios in TSC really don't sit well with me. Same Numbered stock and locos every time. Not realistic in the slightest.
TSW is the land of massive compromise unfortunately, isn't there a BR Blue 47 running round Germany on one route?
You mean this hungarian one (BR Blue ingame) on Austria's Semmering? https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/5...-47-conquers-the-world-famous-semmering-pass/
Austria, as it happens... Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go about messing with liveries on regularly scheduled services, but I'm not sure I'd describe a livery change on a single railtour in one season that you can now turn off using the layer selector with two clicks as 'massive compromise' to be honest.
Ok, probably not the best example. The railtour layers in general though haven't been great imo. When I refer to compromise its timetabling either missing types of train (because they don't exist) or using one that is in the TOCs correct colour but doesn't go near in real life such as the 323 at Doncaster. I understand why these compromises are made but don't have to like it.
If they modelled 50008 in Hanson & Hall livery, or 50007 & 50049 in large logo livery and some suitable rolling stock they would layer on to all modern day routes on railtour services.
Actually modelling a UK diesel would be a result. Seemingly off the menu indefinitely despite requests.
