If DTG can't release a yearly edition of TSW without two of the routes being a disaster at launch, then having to waste development time releasing multiple fix patches later, why not just have one yearly core route instead? I know that the argument would be "If TSW5 only releases with a UK route, German and American players won't buy it." but that argument is made pointless after TSW5 released with a free edition. Many people will just take the free edition of TSW5 and ignore the paid version, no matter how many routes it includes. So what if DTG spent 12 months making one really good route, sell it for £59.99 (the price of other new game releases), and people who don't want to buy the core route can take the free edition and ignore the main release? Everybody will buy the "regular" route and loco DLC releases through the year anyway, so DTG will still make money, and people who buy the main TSW release will get a route that rivals the quality of Niddertalbahn or Blackpool branches. You also wouldn't have to sell a £79.99 Deluxe or £104.99 Special edition of the game, if the single base game price was higher. I mean, outside of hardcore TSW fans, nobody buys the deluxe or special edition of TSW until it goes on sale for £15 around 6 months after release anyway.... Even if they try to bribe players with "5 days early access" sales are probably much lower than the standard version. You could do something like: TSW6: US route TSW7: German route TSW8: French route (You get the general idea)
I like the current setup with 3 routes in a bundle (It means I get them cheaper). DTG already do regional bundles for those who only want one of the routes. The Free Starter Pack is meant for existing players to get TSW5 for free, kind of like a core update. New players are unlikely to get the free starter pack because it offers so little, and even if they do, they'll realise that there's not much in it and either ignore the game entirely, or they'll buy one of the editions anyway. The main purpose of the yearly release is to get new players. If it weren't for that, we would still be getting 'Rush Hour' style updates. There being three countries in the bundle means you get customers from more places (meaning you get more customers). Furthermore, I doubt that making one route every year for only double the price would make as much money as their current 3-pack setup.
*germans and Uk players riot* *US and UK players riot* *everybody including the French riot* No honestly, it's a bad idea. It's hard to satify everyone with a release. This approach would make it worse.
2 of them being a complete disaster? san bernardino and frankfurt fulda are both excellent routes, wcml needs a bit more polishing but they’re all far from being a disaster
Technically, the only core route is the Training Center. Core routes (meaning they are inseparable from the game and cannot be uninstalled) were Sand Patch Grade (TSW1+2), Bakerloo and Köln-Aachen (TSW2). No core routes ever since, everything's DLC and free to choose from.
Nice idea, but I really like the way they did it this year! No “cash grab” but rather a reaaaaaally good occasion to grab three routes plus two trains for the price of two routes and especially Frankfurt-Fulda and San Bernardino are the best routes DTG ever made! My top five at the moment are: 1. Frankfurt-Fulda 2. Salzburg-Rosenheim 3. San Bernardino 4. Berninaline 5. Riesa-Dresden I see the point of “releasing only one super good route”- but actually if they keep up the work they did with Frankfurt and San Bernardino for future routes, we would have three super good routes with TSW6- and I am a happy customer and will continue to have a lot of fun with the future and already existing routes
Or, just do one new route and the other two be older routes that've been tarted up or extended in some way, bit like what they did with Southeastern High Speed for TSW3, or even just do three existing routes in a bundle like in TSC.
Three routes are fine but they need to be within grasp and resourced properly, rather than what we got. It seems everything started off well, but WCML in particular they just ran out of time. Maybe a better way to approach it would have been to sell the three routes as a season pass with one good to go at the update date and the others following a month, then two months later to allow the extra polish to be applied.
The " Rush Hour " model is the best, 3 new routes and keep the core as a free module with updates as they become available. No massive download of existing content needed. No naming changes needed. I mean what is there about the " new " TSW5 that requires a completely new game? UI cosmetics, an improved map? Does anybody really think that the free TSW5 starter pack is likely to attract oodles of new players? No, it's the routes that are the attraction. Offer a standard 3 route pack with appropriate stock and leave it at that. As far as this year's routes are concerned, well, DTG sourced material for San Bernardino over a year ago and didn't they outsource most of the German and UK routes? At least that's the conventional wisdom. So how could they run out of time? SBL and WCMLS should have received a lot more spit and polish when DTG got hold of them.
And Rush Hour was a really disappointing launch. Everything got delayed and when it launched the Rush Hour bundle still needed years of updates. TSW5 is more appealing than Rush Hour was. I'm still waiting for the TOD4 upgrade to finally start playing BML because back then it was unplayable at launch.
Yeah, this whole argument requires us to agree that the routes are "terrible" but I don't think they are. So it fails.
Yes, the starter pack does seem to be attracting new customers. It's near the top of the new games sales charts for the genre. The "hey it's a higher number" crowd definitely exists, especially on console which is most of the market. Having 3 routes for a cheap bundle ALSO helps. Just because you "outsource" doesn't mean it saves time necessarily. If we're guessing on average a route takes a year to do, and that "spit and polish" adds another 50% (which would be normal for game development) then you'd have to START them 6 months earlier and get 2 instead of 3. I mean... that's a possibility... but as I've said elsewhere what YOU see as problems aren't necessarily widespread. The new customers don't see it as a problem (since they didn't have to download anyway), and the majority of existing players aren't complaining. Yes, some are. However, they aren't by and large denting sales numbers or stopping the game. You make decisions as a business person based on actions, not words. If most people buy the new product and a few complain... but keep buying the product... why change your practices? If anything, they are reluctant to do so because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." If they do go to an 18 months development cycle and do 1/3 less routes and content.... that COULD result in lower sales.... and the people complaining are ALREADY buying the product. They won't buy it twice.... so you gain nothing and possibly lose a few customers. That'd be silly. The third party devs like Just Trains can afford to do a top notch 18-month cycle because they aren't limited by the yearly release marketing of the core game.
I think It would be better if DTG upgraded and extend 3 older routes rather than have 3 new and unfinished routes. And make this into a DLC instead of a new game every year.
I like the three core routes in a bundle. And I like the Free Starter Pack idea. It's similar, as I recall, to something they did a couple of years ago before they started rebranding the game each year. It's basically a sell point for TSW5 with the old add-ons. I would have done that had I not decided to buy into the new core routes.
Newcomers from neither of the three countries need a chance to try out everything before they could know their preference as well as giving their game some variance (only one route + one training center to play is not a good idea).
I think a lot of people here have probably answered OP's point, but I think when people say they'd like 'one longer route', over 'three shorter routes', what they mean is 'they'd like one longer route (that I want)'. We see already with routes we create that there are so many options, and so many individual preferences, that one longer route, whilst it may hit all of your particular buttons, would be something someone else (be it because of where it is in the world, the type of route it is, the rolling stock included, etc.) doesn't have any interest in whatsoever. I can see the appeal of a longer, more expansive experience as a core route, but from an overall appeal perspective, I couldn't see us moving in that direction for TSW.
An alternative would be to issue less dlc during the year, specifically in the run up to the new TSW release, and make the 3 core routes better and longer. For example do the WCML route yourself and not sub contract it out to companies who have a reputation for falling short, and in addition extend it to Rugby for the Pendolino to stretch it's legs. I feel this would compensate for perhaps losing income on just a dlc or two because everyone would buy the core routes with the new game. Many have passed on the paid core upgrade this year because WCML does not represent the reality especially in services.
I'm not sure "many" have passed on the WCML. Outside of the forum, I see a LOT of support for WCML and quite a few newer players. I don't have the sales figures, but TSW 5 is up there on the Steam, Xbox and Playstation rankings (for it's genre) so..... not sure why so many people are so intent on ditching what seems to be an effective marketing model....
Deluxe edition of TSW 5 , three routes, two trains, it's a bargain. Still on the WCML and only done cache runs on the other routes. Looking forward to them though. I'm happy with the way it is.
Just do whatever you want. Wanting the long term is also a kind of "hope". As long as this "hope" does not become a reality, it will always be a "hope". Let "hope" always accompany their "hope". If DTG adds the long term to reality, it is also a "hope".
WCML is the only bad route, and even then there are worse. SBL isn't my cup of tea but I'll still give it a spin. Maybe, one day, I'll do a full run along Cajon Pass, through the SBL, and then up Antelope Valley, because why not. FFA is a bit long for me, but there are plenty of shorter runs, an ICE to play with, and ultimately it's not *too* long. I'll still play WCML because of the 390 and DC Line (even if the timetable is abysmal), and the 350 will get to stretch it's legs a bit. Standard Edition's three routes for the price of 1.3 is a good deal regardless of anything else, as is Deluxe Edition's 4 routes + 2 Locos for the price of 2 routes. I'd prefer we stick with three, thanks. (Ideally on the same core, though. It's taking the piss with the redownloading now.)
Thinking back to when I first purchased TSW2, just prior to the Rush Hour launch, the familiarity of the London underground pulled me in, along with the £16 tag. I'm not really interested in trains, outside the good Reverend's good books as a kid, plus some Science Museum pictures on my wall later, but I'm a 20th century boy with a mechanical adoration. I was soon studying Matt's PZB vid and tearing my hair out over SPG's faulty setups, but the 3 disciplines sum up, to me, what makes this game great. Familiarity, Technicality and Slog. Heart, mind and soul? Different for everyone, but I'd say the 3 routes, as is, is best.
Have you not read the WCMLS feedback thread? For me the service timetable for 710 services at one every 90 minutes instead of one every 15 minutes is little short of a joke. Yes a very good marketing model selling mutton dressed as lamb. I've gone free upgrade because I know the WCMLS and this rendition isn't it, and I'm happy with that. If DTG amend the timetable to make it more realistic then I will buy it at once. Can't say fairer than that.
Three routes per release is fine as long any third-party contributors know the subject matter well, provide quality workmanship, and complete the work on time. Something tells me that did not happen with some aspects of TSW5.
The words over stretched comes to mind, I think DTG are just busy producing what they can make money on rather limiting what they do to get quality and troubleshoot any bugs....?
Haha I got TSW4 de luxe edition for 8 quid just by buying it a year later! Then I got the free upgrade for TSW5.
Still happy; profile from 4 and all my dlc went smoothly over. Feel some pity for the foot warmers though;it went terribly for those poor peeps. And 5 runs better than 4 on my pc.
I think if they ever do a longer route it will be like the Expert 101 as a stand alone DLC It will be a higher price and a test to see how many people would buy at a higher price rate. If it does well and makes profit quickly then more will come. If it doesn't...well that will be the end of that.
I have a suspicion we might yet see this with the JT WCML Over Shap route. A much sought after, iconic BR Classic Blue era route offering over 90 miles of running - would not surprise me to see that come in at £35 or £40 see if us thrash heads are prepared to put our money where our wishlists are.
My feeling is combining an expert loco AND a first longer route would be too much of a risk for DTG. Would make more sense to just do a conventional longer route as a sales tester with normal loco's as that way it reaches more customers. Ideally with one of the fast trains in the game such as Azuma, Acela, ICE, TGV or Pendo.
I think a better idea would be to keep the 3 core routes but with a smaller, more detailed scope and scale, something like Goblin. Then, use the DLCs over the year to add to that specific route/region so that by the end of the year (and that game's life cycle), we have a very busy and well-stocked route. This would hopefully help the god-awful rushed feel and poor quality of these routes.
I think they perhaps want something of a 'wow' factor for new players that WCML could provide, but a little 2-track suburban line possibly couldn't. I'm reminded of a BTS video for I think TS2015, where they said they started work on 15 almost as soon as 14 released. Perhaps a similar philosophy could applied to TSW6? Start slow now whilst also working on DLCs, then ramp up production when we get to like April/May time.
