The whole section from Queens Park to Harrow and Wealdstone is copied and pasted from the Bakerloo Line with little to no improvements unfortunately.
Well for a start I ain't dismissing nobodies valid opinions on the game be it good or bad, simply because I really don't care what they think, but at the same time I'm also not ranting and raving getting my undies twisted up my butt crack, because it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, millions and millions of things are created every day of every year that should have been better all over the world, this route is just another tiny piece of that statistic, people just can't seem to grasp that fact. Do I want it to get better, of course I do, but I also don't really care If it got worse because it's just a game and would just indulge my railway gaming in some other title when a replacement was found.....
And? Just because it's a game doesn't mean people can't provide feedback on a feedback thread? People have found issues and are providing feedback and criticism in hopes of the product getting improved. Nobody has gotten their undies twisted. People aren't acting like it's the end of the world. There is nothing wrong with providing feedback or criticism of a product that they have paid or are paying for. It happens all the time with many products in this world. Products get better because of customers providing feedback. Saying things like what you say just makes it look like you are trying to dismiss valid criticism and also saying that people shouldn't provide feedback because it's just a game. It's just dismissive and frankly ignorant
No it's not dismissive and definitely not ignorant, what it is, is being a realist about the situation the game is in, would be ecstatic if it improves in every area, do I expect it too improve tho, absolutely not, and no matter how much completely valid feedback and criticism will probably change the basic state of the game, I live by the hope for the best but be prepared for the worst, that' way I'm never really bothered with whatever happens to the game......
It is dississmive and ignorant. Telling people that it is just a game is dismissing valid feedback and tells people that their feedback doesn't matter especially if a person who provides feedback is passionate about a product. By your logic, feedback threads shouldn't exist because it doesn't matter. Many game compaines like DTG certainly think feedback matters given how they often ask for feedback of their games. Just because you may think that there may not be improvements or that the issues people have with the route don't bother you doesn't mean people can't provide criticism or feedback. Criticism is what lead DTG to improve the timetable on NY-Trenton for instance. Criticism is what has led DTG to make improvements to many of their products. Saying things like it's just a game and there are more important things in the world is just dismissive of ones view of a product.
At no point have I said feedback or criticism isn't valid, but it's not as big of a driving factor in improvement that people think it is, the devs will have their long term plans for the game and they will most probably not deviate from that plan with only the minimal taken from the feedback from players, again it's called being a realist about the situation and hoping for the best but expecting it to just stay the same, believe me it's very honourable tha players try to steer the game into a great place, but the cold hard truth is the impact of all the good intentions with the criticisms and feedback is next to absolutely nothing, just the history of the game to this point where we are proves this to be the case, think about how much feedback has been given in all the years we've had TSW and how little in the grand scheme it has changed from it's original version......
Telling people that it is just a game is still dismissive whether that was your intention or not. Just because DTG may not improve the product of something that just released doesn't mean people can't provide said feedback. Saying that players should just be realistic is once again saying that people shouldn't provide feedback or voice their criticism because it doesn't matter. This game has had it's share of improvements over the years in terms of route quality. If you compare the route quality of Main Spassart Bahn to Frankfurt-Fulda or GWE to the Suffragette line for example, there are noticeable improvements. It's just that DTG aren't consistant. Feedback is one way to improve a game and it is the feedback that players have provided that has led DTG to make good products and improvements to existing products. Given the backlash of the NY-Trenton timetable, and the eventual improvement to that timetable, I would suspect that the WCML timetable will improved down the line and I believe that there are already planned improvements to the WCML
I truly hope that the WCML timetable does get improved but I'm also not holding my breath or expecting it to change, again I'm being a realist about the situation, and either way it's not going to affect me or my life so I'm not going to start ranting or raving, as some like to in here, because as I've said before, it's just a game at the end of the day.....
People can provide feedback and criticism just like people do for literally any product in existence even if it doesn't matter to you or if you don't have issues with said product. Feedback has lead to improvements of routes. You could of course just ignore feedback posts instead of telling people that they are acting like it's the end of the world (which hasn't happened in this thread) or saying that "it's just a game" since you apparently "don't care" about the feedback players have
Good morning folks, your opinions and feedback matter a lot to us, regardless if you criticise or praise us. We read your comments and listen to your thoughts as this is an integral part of how we make our games. Something we don't want to hear though, is bickering and namecalling. Please keep your discussions on here respectful and free of insults. All the best, Jan
Please make the real 15 Minute Timetable for the 710 It’s just 8 Trains on the whole Route. It want be a First Step in the Right Decision
Much of the current angst could be offset if DTG came clean, published a list of the issues and complaints and where they are in the priority list for fixes, or not going to be looked at. DTG would get far more credibility and understanding with the customers to come forward and admit they stuffed up a bit and working rapidly to resolve the situation. But past experience tells us they will remain tight lipped, maybe deliver a few quick and easy fixes then the route will join all the rest of the abandoned DLC while the high fives and silly headphones are trotted out to sell us the next £30 DLC.
Tom was one of my GoTo's in fact it was his video's that pulled me into TSW4 in the first place. I could not believe what I was hearing, but he did give a plug for the mods on TSC. However, far worse was trainsimdrivers comment made during his tube video of WCMLS where he was very critical of our comments here regarding WCMLS and it's problems. I even felt he was taking the 'you know what' out of us with his tone. It really is a shame because he makes some good tutorials. Dad Rail was the only one that expressed any criticisms of WCMLS.
Doesn't matter, they can't just change hats like that to suit. Once they get into that position they have to adapt. It's like expecting Starmer to comment on the middle east crisis on a personal level not as PM.
This route is a bit weird. Despite the many problems it’s enjoyable, and if you sit in the cab and don’t scratch the surface all seems relatively ok. As soon as you actually look even beyond the most superficial level though it is so plagued with problems I do wonder how DTG are going to rectify them. Every time I play it there is some new error becomes apparent. Here's a example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. At Bletchley Station the mapping on this building and the lift front enclosures is a total mess; Then walking around the station I fell through the footbridge. At Leighton Buzzard there are high resolution 'No Alcohol' posters with TfL branding on. Very Nice. Go to the next station along the route and those same posters are painfully low resolution and have no branding. I spotted those two things in 5 minutes of playing yesterday evening. This is why I can't believe people who themselves are responsible for excellent content, and would never ever release something in this state, are defending it saying it's good. Ultimately this is just a computer game, but it isn't a cheap one. DTG don't owe me, or anyone else anything. I think the reason people are so annoyed by this is it is very clearly below the level we have become used to and it is on a route that people were very much looking forward to.
Tell me about it… Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I should have stuck to my guns. I mean, it’s not all bad but it’s not £54 good either. And increasingly looking at better use for some of that HD space. In fact last night after TSW and TSC both pee’d me off, both looking set for the tumbril en route to the headsman’s block.
I experienced an issue last night with the AI services just randomly stopped on the fast line.There was a row of like 4 trains just stopped. I made a thread on it here : https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/wcml-broken-ai-services.85402/
When I did a 350 run from MKC to Euston the other day, I also noted a freight service stopped on the Down Slow at Leighton Buzzard for no visible reason. This was first play too, not from a save game. Didn’t affect my run per se but an indication all is not well somewhere.
Yeah something is wrong, It was not from a save for me either, it was a service straight from the main menu. All was well until the Wembley area.
Is another possible take on all of this that it's their genuine opinion and it happens to differ from the unsilent majority on this thread? I genuinely don't know but, while it's an easy target to accuse them of all sorts because they are ambassadors or development partners (which they are not trying to hide), another explanation might be that it's what they actually think. People are free to disagree or take what they say with a certain quantity of salt, but accusing them of following a particular line to keep in with DTG goes beyond opinion and requires a certain level of proof.
My overriding thought when playing on the WCML is that it is just ultimately forgettable, there is nothing about it that raises it above any other route of the same ilk, it's objectively worse than the 4 year old WCML route for TSC. I wonder whether the decision to make the 390 additional DLC is hurting the feel?, maybe there needs to be some thought given to including AI only versions of additional layers to breathe some life into the barren rails.
I got this route purely for the watford dc line. Its unplayable with the timetable in the state its in! I don't think there's anything limiting the amount of trains that can run on it. If the timetable was right I would probably not notice the poor quality. It's a shame really it's failed in both areas at the moment.
Ambassadors, call them what you will, but at the end of the day they are Influencers. If it had not been for Train Sim TV I would not have spent the considerable amount I have on TSW since April this year. So what they say matters.
The Watford DC line is just pointless in its current state to be honest. It would be so enjoyable if it actually had frequent services. Its just dead and its a shame. I would love to drive it more.
I don't know what you are referring to but that still doesn't prove they are acting in bad faith. As I said, I don't know if they are or if they aren't but I certainly bear their 'status' in mind when I watch their stuff. I called them ambassadors because that's what they're called. I agree, they are 'influencers' but only if one allows them to influence. If they (knowingly) lie or cover up a commercial relationship which affects what they say, then they deserve to be called out on it. YouTube and the like is a huge sales platform, in one way or another, so caveat emptor.
The funny thing is, I tried to run the 1938 stock heritage train on it yesterday. It says Harrow and Wealdstone special on the front but does not work on the line. There's some good user created scenarios for the route already, and someone is working on a timetable for the route, hopefully that will solve the dc line issues.
Think the issue affects more than a I. Did an underground timetable and the 72 quit halfway through the route,had to restart the timetable, which then worked. Tried the physics reset before restarting the timetable.
DTG should have more "ambassadors" that are a little more critical of their products. They declined having me back in TSW3 because I was quite outspoken about the issues. I was always constructive in my criticism, and they didn't really like it. However, they claim to have drivers on their ambassador team to help with realism, however those aren't on the WCML South route, so can't feedback accurately on whats wrong. Any driver that signs the road from Euston would have spotted how bad the timetabling was and also how poorly routed the trains are.
That's very interesting, it appears they want "yes" people to just tow the company line. This is the reason I don't watch ambassadors streams any more. I choose to watch people that are not affiliated to the company in any way. I also vote with my wallet rather than buy the product and then moan - that doesn't do any good does it ? As has been proven. Any train driver working out of Euston would ask where all the ai services are. I frequently visit Watford Jct to film and the streams I've seen are way too quiet. I get the impression rivet did the timetables, though I can't be certain. It's all very well doing quiet timetables like WCL and FC but they are simply not up to the task of doing something as busy as WCMLS. Anyone who thinks the timetable and ai is adequate on this route really needs to pay the line it a visit.
The timetable doesn’t seem to be based on the real life timetable. I could be wrong, but it feels computer generated like the old days.
It just seems odd. They have Joe who makes awesome timetables. Why wouldn't you make sure he was involved in the timetable for your flagship route?
To compare, I ran a route in game, then watched the same route using the live railway mapper page online, the amount of traffic on the line IRL, compared to what I saw, was more than tenfold, it's nothing like real life.
The timetable is nothing short of a disappointment, with there being various ‘lock ups’ across the route at all times of the day - trains having stand offs and randomly stopped for no apparent reason. The whole timetable needs to be redone from scratch in my opinion. It should never have been released in such a poor condition.A flagship route with huge potential but released when it clearly wasn’t ready.
TSW5- Starter pack (PS5 version ) WCML- S Route -add-on £29.99 BR-CLASS 390 PENDOLENO Loco Add- £14.99 TOTAL Cost £ 44.98 My thoughts Another dramatic improvement on the Train simulator version of WCML-South no LAG the Graphics a lot more detailed not so bland as the TS version. As far as TSW5 is concerned the new features are very weak & rather shallow this game is going off boil big time
If one doesn’t acknowledge any failings do they actually exist? ….here’s another bag of sand to bury your heads in…
Of course it matters! Sometimes you have to defend your company line. For avoidance of doubt I am not defending these guys either way…simply putting a question out there!
And who would that someone be? I am afraid your statement does not un-muddy the waters about who or how the timetable was made. So until your unnamed source comes forward or DTG themselves confirms the rumor.. it still remains a rumor. To be clear, I could not care less who made the timetable, it obviously isn’t to many folks’ satisfaction, or seemingly so by the uproar in the micro universe of these forums, and should be looked at to be improved.
OldVern you are easily my favourite person to ever comment on the forums. What you said is Bang on. Nothing has been said about improvements to WCML and what will be improved since it released 11 days ago. But this is what we are wanting but no we are having to sit in Silence. Would of hoped we had something this morning, maybe tomorrow? God knows and it is getting very frustrating.
There's gonna be some timetables in the form of mods. I would hope for the sake of the console players, dtg will reach out and implement one that's done right.
No it doesn't I'm afraid. I don't know what's happened as it works on the Bakerloo route yet doesn't work on wcml. I'm guessing it's still configured to work on the old island line route.
There are still many questions left in the air on how did DTG allow a third party developer to develop such a critical route from one of the most requested on the forums. It doesn't help DTG aren't being open honest on it for the least and admit they've 'messed up'. Hidding won't last for long if a state practice like this continues. It's been already well established from feedback over the years, Rivet Games doesn't have the best reputation unfortunately when meeting standards on DLC's either on locos or routes. Again once more, it doesn't help Rivet or DTG themselves haven't been taking constructive feedback or accountability. I may be off there speculation though I'm sure DTG have there reasons for working with them something in curious to know their relationship between eachother.
