Just a short queston, when do we get the Expert 101 and Cab Car separate timetable for Kinzigtalbahn? It was mentioned on stream that this timetable variant is already done and would release with the first few patches. Now that we got the release and some little bugfixes, is there a certain time we can look forward to for the release?
The Dresden-Riesa Expert timetable has the ICE T replacing the ICE 3, I don't think the original timetable has been changed (i.e. it still has the ICE 3) but that is not something I or TSG as a whole control. Regarding the Frankfurt-Fulda Expert timetable all I can say is that it is undergoing beta testing, I don't know if it will be included in the upcoming (imminent) patch.
But when is the ICE T Available on the Expert Timetable for Dresden? It’s still showing the ICE 3 yet
I'm glad TSG is more active on that than DTG. if the time arises. would the 2 AI services on SRM with the ICE 3 be able to be changed to the ICE-T like it actually drove too? even if only on the expert timetable.
And talking about the timetable for Frankfurt: Could the new journeys pack with the Railbow and ICE 1 with the green stripe be added?
Cannot stress enough how impressed i am by TSGs interactivety with the community! There is a super detailed 50 points bug report, with every single bug known to them listed, described and even the Status on every each of them. So im absolutely aware of whats going on behind the scenes, and also know that the product wasn't just abandoned. They want to prove that regular and substantial updated and patches are possible. Thats a bold claim and actually tells a lot. I think other developers should take a look at. This is how you troubleshoot! This is how you interact with us. This is how you get us the feeling of being heard. Cheers to TSG
Just know that creating a new timetable to use the icet is not a 5 minute job. Have some patience will you. It's going to save you in the long run
Still requires work. Like i said, it's not something that can be done in 5 minutes. It also has to go through testing and all that
whilst waiting on the new TT for FTF I decided to drive the expert 101 on DRA again since I hadn't done all trips yet. no Störung this time luckily. but I think substitution has been fixed again. the dosto services had either a 143 or 145. and on freight I saw one DB 185, a 218 and a 143 with CC livery. I'm glad the 185 MRCE spam is gone. this might be a single test as I don't have the time to run up and down the route 10 times. but it seems to work fine again.
After playing the expert 101 for a while, it's difficult to come back to other "conventional" rolling stock. It just doesn't have the same feel.
I am kinda waiting for this expert version to bleed into more routes... I mean, 2 routes fully simulated and 4 or so more with loco on expert is nice, but I hope in time also other routes get 101+coaches expert simulation as for other trains/locos getting expert treatment, I wouldnt be against 442 or sth relatively simple getting more expert simulation
yeah I think even being a very niche product. TSG did a stellar job on the 101 and even though I don't expect anything soon. I highly doubt this is the end of expert stock. I'm also glad TSG and Skyhook are backdating their catalog of stock and routes, including those made by DTG and other parties to update and add to existing stock.
It was already confirmed that there is a second expert loco in the works, but if they only started now, the research and development for E101 took over a year. Also the timetable updates should be specific to BR 101 because it comes with the cab car. If a new universal freight expert loco is released for example, it should be just broadly substituting everywhere by default as usual.
I didn't mean just adding the 101 because of the cab car. also the change of the ICE3 to ICE-T on DRA for example.
so, a third route with both loco and coaches simulated fully... I believe also Bremen Oldenburg, while being driveable with expert 101, only had regular IC coaches simulated, but I think cwf.green mentioned sth along the lines that in next update or so we should get full consist simulated in expert way so that would be 4 in total (plus like 2 or so more with just loco simulated expertly, like KWG)
Would be sad with only one route :/ I paid 36€ I would like to drive it on more routes Even if I have to make my own scenarios
It's on Salzburg - Rosenheim and Dresden - Riesa (Sadly DRA is a simulated time timetable) on Köln - Aachen, Kassel - Würzburg and Dresden - Chemnitz it layers on to be chosen by the player. Frankfurt - Fulda and Bremen - Oldenburg will get an Expert timetable. Dresden - Riesa will get it's ICE3 replaced with the ICE-T that drives there. Salzburg - Rosenheim will not (by me it will though in my mod)
So does the ICE-T coming to DRA mean that there are now going to be timetable changes that are essentially locked behind the E101 paywall, or is that update coming to both expert and non-expert timetables?
101 only and its not a paywall but an extra thing for people they have paid a fair amount for a very good product. So if you wish to have this timetable you can buy it and buy a very high quality product. And why directly so negative? If people pay a large amount for this product you can expect some advantage for this customers
Not questioning the quality of the product or the fairness of the pricing at all - I didn't fancy the study-level product so didn't get it and that's all totally fine. What concerns me is that at the time, the idea was presented as cloned timetables only, the only differences that you pay the extra money for being the level of detail and the addition of the cab car. Now it seems that different timetables are possibly going to start to creep in, that's a different issue - I wouldn't use the expert features, so is it right to pay that price for the updated timetable and what is (to me and other less advanced players) essentially the same loco again?
Sorry but TSG is free to add more layers if they wish. Its the same as every modder can do to a route. That you need a paid version thats separate from this timetable change in terms of the 411 instead of the 406!
TSG have sold a product & are providing content to people who bought that product. Why should they have to make a third version of the timetable for people who haven’t bought their product? Your issue here is with DTG, as they are responsible for the product you purchased (DRA), not TSG. TSG also aren’t selling a timetable for £30, they sell the expert pack for £30, the fact that you personally don’t want the expert features is entirely irrelevant i’m afraid.
I think I've given you the wrong end of the stick here fellas, so my apologies for that - I'm not having a go at TSG, nor am I expecting them to do the extra work for people who haven't bought their product (I know nothing about game development and even I get that would be a bit much of an assumption). Indeed I didn't actually mention TSG in my original post. You're absolutely right CK95 - this is a DTG thing, and the point I'm making is that I got the impression that the timetables were identical save for the 101 itself, and I seem to remember a DTG stream saying that much. Where my concern lies is that if that's not the case, where's the line in the sand regarding timetable updates? All of us go on about how important it is to have the right stock in the right places, and here that's happening, but only for people who spent the extra money on an unrelated study-level loco? Shouldn't DTG be looking to see how they can maintain parity in line with that? This also goes further to anyone who doesn't own either 101, but does own both DRA and FTF. I may have totally the wrong perspective on this, it just seems a bit odd from where I'm standing.
I think in this case, where a layer is provided using incorrect rolling stock & the correct rolling stock becomes available later, that yes the developer should have a responsibility to update it. Unfortunately DTG really don’t like to do that, usually it only happens when DTG can re-sell the route (see SEHS) or a someone does it for free (see Joe & Liams work). In this particular case though, a new timetable has been created for the E101 as it couldn’t be substituted, so TSG were already taking on the work of needing to do their own timetable. It’s was a good opportunity to replace the existing ICE so they did that. DTG on the other hand haven’t had a need to work on the timetable so any work would need to planned out & between fixing the TSW5 stuff & upcoming content, there likely isn’t scope for it. Ultimately TSG decided they wanted to do something with their own content, I personally don’t see why that means DTG have to update theirs. If you want what TSG are doing then ultimately you need to buy their content. I don’t think the E101 is unrelated at all, as in itself it’s a product that is all about the realism - adding the correct IC & ICE consists to DRA tie into it very much. The TSG timetable effectively adds the correct stock to the route, the E101 is part of that. You also see a similar issue that’s the opposite of this - Skyhooks SR158 was a new timetable & that actually removed layers in their timetable. It’s not dissimilar to the 390 & 350 either, people want those added to BCC, but alas DTG don’t generally do retroactive timetable changes.
Yeah i'm aslo in that part that DTG should be more doing on timetables for existing routes. There is much more released now and there is so more potential to do that and bring routes more to a better product!
as someone who owns all german DLC I can confirm the copied timetable shows a service being finished on both that one and the original one. both when buying the exepert 101 and after. I'm unsure if expert 101 services on the expert timetable complete the same on the original one after buying the dlc. but every service that is the same on both definetely gets completed on both timetables. Indeed TSG decided to take the couple minutes it requires to swap out the formations for the ICE services and the hours to resimulate the timetable. DTG however rather makes new stuff and hasn't seen the need to do this to their timetable. nor can TSG do it for them as I think they have as much access to timetable files as we do. none. I would agree an update to some older timetables would be nice. having all routes under the same destination display system and up to date means only small edits like these are required in the future. However, big undertakings like Joe's SKA timetable project or Matt working on Clinchfield aren't a few minutes of work and I'm very impressed they work on them in their own time for free (mostly) The existance of two timetables is needed because there is no non-expert cab car. and there are issues I think having the sandwich services be replaced by a loco and cab car. I suppose a non expert cab car would make it possible to only have one timetable again. but I doub't we'll see that soon. I had hope for when a railjet might get released that looking into an IC cab car would be possible. but, with no austria on the roadmap at all and DTG not making a non expert one in the first place to release next to the expert dlc or at the release of the original 101 means to me these duplicates are here to stay for at least 3 more years
Wait, you're actually saying the cloned Expert timetable and the non-Expert one share the same completion marks/medals? That completing something on one does it for the other too? Just asking cause the services present in both the original and NJ timetables for Koeln-Aachen don't do that, so far. This'd be a great addition!
Just to clarify some stuff (I haven't read through the whole thread so I might have missed answering some questions, feel free to ping me, although I may be late in answering). With the upcoming patch there will be two new Expert timetables: Frankfurt-Fulda and Bremen Oldenburg. These timetables will be like the Dresden-Riesa and Salzburg-Rosenheim Expert timetables in that you can drive the cab car where it would lead in the prototypical service (so it will be a mix or BR 101 led and cab car led services, but the BR 101 led services have the cab car in 95% of cases, and all have IC Expert coaches of course). Bremen Oldenburg have a few "interesting" formations that I added (but these are few and far between so those that want every formation 100% "realistic" should not be too worried ). There is a service with a BR 101 coupled to the cab car (top-tail but with a cab car in between) and one where you have two BR 101 coupled together at the head of a cab car-less formation. The latter formation was led by a BR120 IRL at this time, so I felt having an interesting exotic formation was fine in a realism sense. Let me tell you, this formation accelerates like a rocket but take care not to exceed force limits since the BR 101 does not have (prototypically) any control of the total force in ZDS/ZMS. Note also that the sandwich formation will need some special setup to use ZDS, I won't spoil the "surprise" now, but if people struggle I'll answer later Oh, one feature that I may have already explained in the trouble shooting & changelist thread is that the PbZ (empty stock service) formations on Bremen-Oldenburg will have a chance to spawn with brakes cut out on the IC Expert coaches/cab car (similar to the PbZ scenario) which should make things more interesting and perhaps warrant replaying the services Currently the only way to know if the brakes are cut out is to check the exterior of the formation and look at the state of the red distributor cutout valves. You do have some time to prepare the formation before departure so it shouldn't be too hectic (but pausing to recalculate BrH may be necessary).
as far as I experienced it yes, that is how it works. I'm not sure what NJ timetable you mean for SKA. but I think neither the new journeys pack one or any mod shares completion marks as far as I know.
so now not only loco will be expert-level simulated but also the IC coaches and all? (as far as I remember, in Bremen Oldenburg it used to be loco on expert and regular IC coaches)
It is because the timetables are different, rather than duplicates. If a timetable is duplicated and the filename is unchanged it will share medals etc with the original TT. I.e. this will be the case for the Expert timetables. Yes, of course This is already the case (unless I'm misunderstanding your question). Indeed All Expert timetables use Expert vehicles only for the IC services (i.e. Avmmz Expert, Bpmmz Expert, Bpmmbdzf and BR 101 Expert). They do not depend on the original BR 101 DLC at all
awesome as much as I enjoyed my run on Kassel Wurzburg, I also noticed that Sifa zw. that I also tested there wasnt as bad as on Dresden Riesa cos the coaches didnt have those expert shenanigans (and thus I was able to recover from it ) ... hopefully in the future also KWG gets this full expert treatment, cos I want full punishment from Sifa if I am sleepy lol as for Kinzingtalbahn, man, with two LZB sections there is so much that can cause faults XD ... looking forward to the proper AFB exit thing that I think you mentioned is coming in next patch )) ... on this route, two times, yaay
