Graphics aside, what's your assessment of the amount of traffic on the line, in game compared to real life?
The full motion simulators that I use as part of my day job have entire rooms of computers which model every aspect of the real vehicle to the point that procedures that are to be used in real life can be used and tested in them as they are representative of the actual vehicle. They are 'certified' as such, cost many millions, and have absolutely atrocious graphics. Graphics, while nice, are not everything if the machinery under the hood is not working as intended. There are reports from the German camp of vehicles that cannot apply brakes and I have demonstrated in another thread how I managed to get a steam locomotive to 176mph on the test track. Fidelity is not present when such elements make it through to the release model. There are numerous other reports that indicate TSW and its much vaunted simugraph are not producing models that are representative of their real life counterparts. Its great that you enjoy the game, but sadly I fear that is all TSW is now becoming. This is largely 'under the hood' stuff, but its pretty bad when it results in an inability to stop a train because the brakes dont work etc. Then theres the immersion ruining graphics issues- on other products with worse graphics that immersion isnt broken because the product works and so the suspension of disbelief that is inherent in immersive simulators is not jarred by the sudden intrusion of an element that shouldnt be there. It just seems to me that TSW and the DTG business model has seriously lost its way. Once the reputation tanks or even begins to slide, its a dangerous place to be for software companies. I wish it wasnt so because no-one wants a really professional DTG producing high quality train simulation more than me. But lets not pretend its not got issues. If we start doing that, then the issues wont get recognised, and certainly wont get fixed. Excusing mediocrity just results in more mediocrity. On a side note- crashes. Apparently Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs have inherent issues. Might be worth reading up on that if the glove fits.
Yes, nowhere near enough services - the timetable does need improvement. We are often held on both up and down trains on the slow lines for Freightliners leaving Willesden- they are slow to get moving on the climb to Tring summit. Often, the timing of the 350s from Euston to Watford is extremely tight on the best of runs, and if one of these decides to come out ahead of you, it’s “game over” for timekeeping! As an aside, working the new 730s of “Jaffa Cakes” as they are known , these have far superior acceleration and braking and you are often waiting “time” at most stations.
I was not going to get it, BUT,,,, It offered me Cross country Birmingham which I had on my wishlist for about half price and so I got the free basic version, now I have everything I want so far. Plus they say a free upgrade for GWR my favourite route.
It definitely was another borked launch same as TSW 4. I don't get how they can honestly say with a straight face that it wasn't. Broke controls. Locos on all new routes suffering from some strange ass quasi-wheel slip when there is none. Hopefully patched now. Still same old popping sounds on series x. Rendering times not optimized to capitalize on the processing power of said console. Early access another joke, as people had to wait a week after launch to even play legacy dlc. Where are my community and preorder decals btw dtg. Spirit of steam still broken as hell. Peak forest is so much better. Certain scenarios are incomplete able due to ridiculous amounts of track wetness, sander does not compensate enough. Btw, reselling a remaster is hardly just. LIRR 2024. Anyone wanting to discount my expertise needs to realize my driver level is over 825, so I'm hardly a rookie driver. You guys at DTG need to pick it up. If, needed there are plenty of community members here to beta test as your alphas and other in house tests are sorely lacking. Pretty sad that mastery challenges are still glitchy from when I first started playing TSW 2 on Xbox one X, and I find myself having to create new profiles to get the challenges to count when completed. Can you please fix the hair trigger throttle on the MP 36 C. Both cal train and metro versions still suffer from this and the immersion breaking tearing of control screens and labels. Just over all shoddy work considering how little new content was released over the life of TSW 4. Even with all its problems, TSW 2 offered the most content.
In truth since picking up the Arkansas map for ATS the other day and focusing on the WoT event plus a bit of BR Classic in TSC, TSW5 has not been touched in nearly a week. Even with the mod I hate the lighting, the jitters, wondering if your run is going to come to a halt at a red signal etc. And the three new routes, well all turned out to be nothing special really, even Frankfurt to Fulda once the novelty wore off. Nothing the multitude of other German routes don’t already offer. And now, apart from some random fixes skirting round the edges DTG have gone silent. Just wish I had listened more carefully to my inner voice instead of surrendering to the hype at the last minute and saved myself £54.
How dare they! Only joking, but we will now have to refer to this as "Original Jaffa Cake Livery" This is the original, only applied to Class 309s, 411s and 11 x 421s.
l am with you on that OV, wish l had waited too, now a days there are multiple sales with rediculous discounts, which tell me DTG are still making loads of money out of the sales and not many mugs like me, fork out 90% of the original cost. I bought the deluxe TSW5 which took me a hellish four and a half days to install everything and have to wait 15 minutes to load the game to play. Also the more l add those times mentioned increase. I am very disappointed with DTG for yet another new game still full of bugs, however l do like those flying suitcases and disappearing track on my XboxOneS. In future, l will purchase the Just Trains WCML and possibly Tadami, but anything else will wait for a massive discount. Sorry DTG but l am quickly losing interest.
Well I'm glad I stuck to my guns anyway. I've given up rewarding DTG and the likes of rivet rivet the frog timetable ignorant company, and failure should never be rewarded. The price of dlc has gone up astronomically in recent times, which is acceptable if we get real quality, but with this latest release it's obvious the whole thing has been rushed. I for one am not about to encourage more of the same by giving them my hard earned. They've dropped US freight like a hot potato, the German routes are getting a bit repetitive, so the one I was hyped for was WCMLS. We all know how that turned out. If DTG's new plan going forward is for modders to fix their stuff for pc players then that is unacceptable. In addition console players need to start voting with their wallets because their versions are never going to get fixed.
I purchased WCML south yesterday and was immediately greeted with a 390 at Euston complete with dodgy lighting along the coaches (some were dark and others way too bright). I also had my suspicions that the section up to Harrow and Wealdstone was copied and pasted into the new route - I noticed that the trackside detail/foliage was a bit thin on the ground and looked more like a TSW 2 route. So what did I do? I took pics comparing the two. The foliage placement matches up identically. There is no doubt that a decent part of the route has been chopped from an older route and inserted into WCML south.
I don't regret purchasing TSW5 as it is still three routes for £54 and eventually either via DTG or the community WCMLS will become what it should have been. The other two routes I am happy with. If WCMLS had been a stand alone DLC I would have held off purchasing it until some fixes had arrived, certainly a better timetable. As long as there are no major issues with the content to come there is plenty to look forward too, including two new countries, some interesting UK content and the German and USA routes look like they could be worthwhile.
I agree, I bought the standard edition at £39 because that's good for the three new routes. The only thing I would say is that it is down to DTG alone to get things up to scratch: the route (and others, old and new), lighting – everything. I don't want DTG to ever rest on their laurels, thinking the community do fine taking care of things. a) The developer should take responsibility for issues and improvements, as they are expecting us to pay for their product; b) I don't like using mods; c) Console players can't use mods, and they shouldn't be left behind. Speaking of issues, I know DTG read the threads and say they "hear us", so they seriously need to invest resource in optimisation, and I would suggest they start with reviewing how LOD is handled. There is some weird stuff going on, which must be impacting performance. I remember when Matt said they had developed some tool they run on each route to automatically check for issues, and one of the issues they discovered was assets stacked up on top of each other, eating up resource. Hopefully they are still using this tool, but they need to take a manual look at issues with the code, because why on earth should we be seeing (on Frankfurt-Fulda at least) distant autumn trees switching back to green summer trees, then back to autumn, then back to green a few times quickly, as they approach the camera? Another time I was in a tunnel on the same route and decided to go to the 3 external camera. Obviously the camera doesn't go outside the tunnel, but I could see through the bottom of the landscape above. Either side of the tunnel, I could see lights (from buildings, I believe), which were turning on and off as they approached the camera. On and off again, several times? It seems to me that LOD levels and assets are getting mixed up, and the issues above suggest faulty and inefficient code. Come on, DTG, please take a closer look at your teams' work and how you can fix/improve the code. It's time to invest – even in some external, objective coding resource. Someone with years of experience in optimisation. A freelander, perhaps.
I agree that we shouldn't rely on community mods, especially as console users cannot take advantage of them. However if the community are happy to make their mods, which they seem too be so, then I am sure most PC users aren't going to be very happy with that. I feel DTG will make their own improvements, they have generally been on a upward trajectory recently and I can't imagine they will want WCMLS to be a fly in the ointment.
Well, generally, I'd say no! Of course, there are some flaws on the three main routes. - San Bernardino: Level crossings that close too late (I know, in the US they close much later than they do in Europe, but this is too much!) and flying cars. - WCML: sometimes, AWS does what it wants, giving warnings even when everything is green and without speed restrictions ahead; the timetable of the secondary lines is disastrous (any services missing on the 350 too?) and some fields that are clearly empty (at least, with grass!). Oh, and the 66 headlights problem! - Kinzigtalbahn: LZB gives some small problems on the ICE-T (it gives small warnings even when traveling under PZB) and some Speed signs are wrong (for example, they indicate 130 km/h where there are 160 km/h!). Oh, almost forgot, I found out where Doc Brown disposed of the plutonium in "Back to The Future" : Platform 1 at London Euston... My...
While I have great respect for those who produce mods, I refuse to use them myself. DTG should take responsibility and fix what is wrong with their game. I'm not sure how you can say that the game is on an " upward trajectory. " The abandonment of steam and US freight, the continued absence of essential features such as an effective save game and the reliance on simple electric commuter routes displays a worrying lack of imagination and gives little hope for any future innovation, not to mention the continued tendency to launch clearly unfinished content containing obvious bugs which should not have escaped QA. I have to seriously question the ability of the current management team to produce anything better quite frankly. Having said all that, I still enjoy playing TSW, but mainly the older routes and because it's the only show in town, not because it's as good as it could be.
I should have been more specific, I meant the quality has been on an upward trajectory, in my opinion..
That's AWS not TPWS, it's a known issue that the AWS (yellow) ramps are active for a diverging line even if the points are set for straight ahead, TPWS are the rectangular metal grids that measure your speed and will apply the EB if you're doing over what they are set to unless you've temporarily isolated the TPWS system.
I agree that the silence from DTG currently is pretty weird, considering TSW 5 launched just a few weeks ago. When TSW 4 launched, I remember that DTG's staff were VERY active in the forums up until a few months after TSW 4's launch.
They're probably still chasing rivet staff members over hill and down dale with rolled up newspapers for cocking up their flagship launch. Like at the end of the benny hill show!
Or working on the next one handled 40 mile dlc with floating cars, glowing carriages, overbaked sky and snazzy launch video.. The irony of this meme being for TSW3 shows how far we've come....
To me, this feeds into my own idea that this is a outsourced route and is entirely a Rivet product. DTG are quiet because they just plain and simply can not answer anything outside the basic statements they've already made about the route and are totally relying on Rivet for any further updates to the WCML. Which is moronic as a company like Rivet have such a poor reputation for thorough post release fixes and patches... So many questions need to be asked going forward though... Rivet have, and had, a solid reputation for poor quality routes and poor customer service in terms of fixing or updating their own routes. DTG think that this type of work is completely fine to release to customers and seem to come out and defend Rivet or feel sorry for them, or state how well sales are year on year. It just doesn't wash with me, and has really knocked my confidence and concerns me about their future products if they can not see how poor the state the game was released in. And furthermore if they are willing to defend Rivet after Fife Circle, Edinburgh to Glasgow and now this little fiasco, that's as much as I need to know. I'll certainly be very cautious of any new routes going forward and won't be a 'Day 1 purchaser' anymore. It will never happen I am quite aware, but a public acknowledgement of Rivets poor work, and DTG accepting and thinking this poorly developed mess was acceptable for a flagship route, needs to be made to gain my confidence again. You can't release such a good route like the Goblin line and establish that as the standard and then backtrack and release something with not even half the quality... Personally I'm looking forward to the remastered GWML and JTs WCML North for the standard I expect from a route and I'm 100% sure I won't be disappointed.
Didnt purchaise fife circle..., and i wont until it has an 80% discount. Same for every other upcoming Rivet product either as 2nd or third party. Dont get me wrong, glad to pay 45 Euros for a solid route, also fife circle i was looking forward to. But not this mess. Players say the running sounds on the 170 is broken and Rivet just doesnt give a dmn.. Happy for every train is spared from rivet, so chance is growing it might be made by a dev who actually cares.
Neither did I being a rivet product after there history of shoddy routes Fife Circle has had 1 update since it's release and it's still in a mess it's not good enough a route just left like that especially when they are charging full price
Rivet will have taken refuge under the lily pads at the local duck pond with the frogs, going rivet rivet.
It's not just rivet that have not so great dlc. Dtg and skyhook also have them. If rivet should get the hate, then so should everyone else. Each dlc has their pros and cons
Ah but Skyhook went out of their way to fix theirs, just look at MML. Rivet on the other stick up their middle finger at us and that's it. See WCL.
Skyhook only fixed their small MML over the course of almost one year! (with renowned modders helping them). They abandoned their other forgotten routes HSC and CCR, and stopped making routes ever since, now a Gameplay Pack 3rd party. HSC has serious issues with headlights, brake behaviour and horrible engine sounds. CCR used a borked copypaste DTG Gevo. Not talking about the completely bugged Skyhook BR 187. Rivet has produced way more (innovative) content, and in sum a lot of better stuff than Skyhook ever did.
Yeah, for sure, each developer has a 'cross to bare' with previous work so to speak. But with Skyhook and DTG I've found that with every add on released, that there seems to be a slight evolution of the game or immersiveness. Skyhook in particular have taken the constructive feedback onboard and transformed themselves as a compamy... With Rivet though it's the same repetitive mistakes, the same issues, and burying their head in the sand until they create another add on that'll turn into abandonware... DTG are in the dog house with Rivet at the moment, for not only allowing their shoddy work to take place and ignoring players very vocal criticism of Rivets previous products, but openly defending them or tellimg those who criticise them that their feelings were hurt!
Why you ask me? I don't work for them I'd guess it's just not important for them, doesn't make them money. In this industry, you have to permanently sell new stuff or you go under. Skyhook have other stuff they're doing, probably not needing to sell much TSW DLC.
That's the problem with Rivet, it's not important to them yet for many of their customers it is, West Cornwall is such a key route and one with a lot of potential, Edinburgh to Glasgow is fairly meh imo even if it was done by DTG etc but West Cornwall has the potential to be a spectacular route.
It's quite useful for DTG to step back and allow Rivet to take most of the heat. It protects them to a certain extent in terms of product reputation and company brand value. Not sure how I'd feel about it as a Rivet employee, no matter where on the corporate ladder. Ultimately all roads lead to Rome, and that is where accountability should be focused.
It sure does. On top of the issues shared with other platforms, we still have audio popping on certain locos and Z-fighting.
That's not entirely true- compare the rightly slammed mountain "scenery" in Arosa with the breathtaking Alps in Bernina. They do improve, if slowly.
Indeed, it seems Rivet live rent free in some peoples heads. They are adding a free extension to the FCL for example. I do think they can be quite slothful with some updates and improvements though.
Breathtaking alps in Bernina still doesn’t quite cut it though or excuses their shenanigans. No one has forgotten about how Rivet abandoned the WCL. Apart from Fife (they get a free pass one that route) they will abandon every upcoming route they make. I see the same mistakes being made.
It is true what about WCL that's just been left without any update the scenery on the st Ives branch is all wrong the 150 is still broken it's been out nearly 3 years without anything
They did replace Truro cathedral to be fair and I'm not sure if they did other things to the route. I think they made the 150 slightly less bad.
Yeh they did the cathedral but that was about it it hasn't been touched since I still find the 150 sound horrible
I recently "pinged" Jasper in another thread(or maybe it was earlier in this one) about that erroneous 20 MPH speed limit on the Up continuing after the foot crossing at Carbis Bay instead of reverting to 30. But not even an acknowledgement let alone an undertaking to take a look at it. Selective deafness maybe, or selective responding - if anything was low hanging fruit this was surely one of the bunch unlike the wretched 150 which needs the sound and physics scrapped and rebuilt from ground up.
I totally agree. Rivet are frustrating. WCL is sadly a route that I'm unlikely to touch again. I hope someone in the future will do the complete Plymouth to Penzance maybe in a similar period. It was quite cheap in a sale. I wouldn't have bought it full price, which is unusual for a UK route.
In some ways I enjoy WCL more than I do say GWE. I find keeping a steady/constant speed at the hilly end quite challenging on the 150, with its camshaft (?) drive requiring throttle resetting to select a lower notch being different from pretty much everything else (not sure if there's another loco that has this)
Nothing challenging about this DMU loco whatsoever. Try Cajon Pass where you have to juggle three brake types on a 3.0% gradient for over 3 miles at 20mphs.
