They have said they are looking at the timetable, something we all wanted or so I understood? Surely it is best to encourage this than make glib comments!
I'm happy it's been acknowledged and I am a happy there is a plan to improve it. Ideally it should of been done from day one... But, I'm not going to dismiss it or be disrespectful. I just hope a new timetable will be the complex and busy one we were originally promised. Hopefully it lives up to expectations and is a vast improvement over the current one. It's be confirmed and that's all I can ask for at the moment.
Well yes all we can do it wait and see what they come up with. Obviously something went awry with the initial timetable, maybe it wasn't a DTG timetable. People have been beating them with sticks over the state of the timetable, surely best to put the sticks down and see what they produce not continue beating them. I think the point has been put across dozens of times and it appears the message has heeded results.
Oh I'm all for it, however its a complete 180 degree swerve as they knew the player base was unhappy. DTG Liam stated they weren't changing the timetable and it was final, and tonight we have Matt and Alex saying they are looking at fixing it. That to me, that is a clear sign of trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Well whatever has happened we are at the point where they are looking at the timetable. As far as I am concerned anything before is just irrelevant.
One thing we can all agree on is, the change of mind about the timetable can only be a good thing and is welcome news from the community.
Work on the timetable was always going to happen, just wasn't sure when I was asked before if it was only fixes or if new services was something we could do. Now we have an idea of what we'd like and can do for it. Hopefully it will address most, if not all, of the feedback the current timetable has received.
Or it's a clear sign they are listening to us, and willing to go back on what they previously said if it improves the customer experience. It takes real effort to perceive this negatively. I'd rather show appreciation, and in doing so encourage DTG. I'd hate to be the dev team, thinking, what's the point if I do what they want and still get crapped on? Positivity breeds positivity, I'd like to believe.
It’s certainly tiring having to have this fight with DTG more often than not. How often are we really expected to tell DTG that we want realistic timetables? If they were listening we’d get the TT’s from the start, not after weeks of back & forth on socials, just to get them to finally say ‘we’re working on it’. I don’t need to tell anyone here what the usual big asks are when we discuss routes, but I’d be shocked if DTG don’t know that one of them is a busy timetable. We shouldn’t need to stampede their community team across multiple platforms after a route release in order to get one. All this on the back of Fife Circle, a DLC created by Rivet that was in no small part criticised for its timetable, so for DTG to let them do the WCML TT & then release it in its current state, it certainly doesn’t tell me that they’re listening.
Oh, I totally agree. Just like it shouldn't have taken 5-6 years then persistent complaining to get the core save feature working – something they should have done under their own initiative immediately post-release of the first TSW. Yes, it would be nice to have them be proactive.
Great to see the feedback about inprovements most have vented about for the last 4 weeks. May just put WCML on my shopping list for the future. If they can also pull of Fife Circle I may just part with money for that too. Would be great if the feedback over the last few routes is having a positive feedback on target setting in DTG.
The apparent reversal on the WCML timetable just goes to prove what I've said a number of times. Whining and persistently complaining can be an incentive for change of mind. The 180 on the NYT timetable, restoration of the save game, signalling improvements on BPE and now supposedly yet another 180 on a deficient timetable. Apologists note: next time someone complains loudly but respectfully don't give them a hard time.
Signaling improvements was more of cactusjuice working as a 2nd party rather than dtg to initiate it themselves. Boston could have stayed the way it is but cactusjuice offered and decided to fix it
Haven't we dealt with this before? They said that the timetable was final for the release. I'm happy to stand corrected but they never said that the timetable was final forever. For all we know, they may well have decided to (ideally) update it long before we saw it on the preview stream. Larger timetables use more memory (I think I've heard Matt or someone say that anyway), so if they were having memory issues anyway, they would need to sort those before they could expand the timetable, in which case they wouldn't announce a definite timetable expansion until they'd got a good handle on the other memory issues, which seems to be what might have happened. I'm not defending the state of the route at release - I really want to see it improved - but I'm not convinced that most of the energy ploughed into this thread was necessary.
The trouble is that unless they come up with a magic bullet to significantly optimise the way they use memory and other resources in a variety of different places, current routes have probably reached the limit of what is possible on current hardware.
Is memory really the concern here though? Route seems to function with the 15 minute interval service then all of a sudden you get the huge gaps. Off peak, the service in and out of Euston is pretty much clock face so why suddenly a gap at certain times. Think the more plausible explanation is that Rivet or whoever created the train service simply ran out of time to compile and validate the full timetable.
They've said in the past they don't have plans to alter the timetable. Just the other day they said they'd fix the timetable but not add any new services, for DTG it's a complete 180.
All I'm saying is that someone said this before (who then subsequently graciously corrected themselves) because they'd gone back and read a pre-release announcement which used the word final for the timetable in relation to what we'd see on the 12th/17th of September. So, no, unless there is a later post that said this (I'm not saying there isn't), this is not a complete 180.
I don't know what the reasons are, just as much as you don't. But if timetables consume memory and they are having memory problems, then it could be an issue and might be at least a partial explanation for why there are inexplicable gaps in the timetable.
That would not be an issue on PC, and individual layers can be disabled for console. So normally not really an excuse for a skeleton timetable, but if it was Rivet’s work, they might have decided to just made one crappy timetable for all as it’s quicker and easier. Who knows!
Players who raise issues on here or complain as you put it, are doing so for the betterment of the game.....Shock horror! Not to step on peoples toes or to cause upset to DTG staff.
Sorry but that is just plain nonsense as far as pc’s go, which is my area, consoles I know nothing about. The proof in the pudding is the work done by modders, prime example the 700 timetable added to the BML which added dozens of new services to the timetable to the point where the line looked completely authentic. There was no memory issues at all. Hence that particular myth was exploded, but we still see people clinging to it in an attempt to excuse the game makers for not adding a proper timetable.
No issues doesn’t mean there wasn’t an increase in memory use. Unless you know what the current memory usage is on WCML & what additional footprint a heavier timetable would result in, you can’t say it wouldn’t cause an issue.
The problem with memory usage on WCMLS appears to be from Watford Junction to Euston, something loads in at Watford which causes huge RAM spiking (on my system), however I have enough RAM to cope with it, I'd imagine if the jump is the same on consoles, that it's then holding the massive asset or assets in memory, and that the intensive nature of Euston is just causing it to prolapse and crash. I've seen the usage go from 10GB at Kings Langley to nearly 32GB exiting the southern portals of the Watford tunnels.
I did ponder whether the issues arise from splicing in the original overground section of Bakerloo. All the FPS drops etc I've encountered have been in the vicinity of Harrow And Wealdstone. Just a thought...
Adding services does not mean a memory issue on pc's, on consoles they provide reduced timetables. The BML is a very busy line and the modded timetable (which as has been said is complete) ran as smooth as a babies bottom meaning there was memory to spare, not even judders, in fact better than some routes with far less services! You can argue till you go blue in the face but the evidence is there. If there is a memory surge on WCMLS (I don't have it yet) then it's another cause than the number of trains in screen at any one time, most likely scenery related. DTG have announced the WCMLS is going to be revised by them in them in time, so I suggest therein lies your answer.
Once again player pressure has caused DTG to relook at a product recently sold and improve it. I very much welcome this and I will take a fresh look at WCMLS with a view to purchasing it at full price once the improvements have been made. I would argue that what some term "moaning" and "whining" achieves results to the benefit of all. I'm not sure what being a fanboy actually achieves for anyone except perhaps some perverse personal satisfaction just to be different. I make no apology for using the term "fanboy" as it's no different the derogatory terms "moaner" and "whiners" being used, they can't have it both ways.
Not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with my post, maybe read it again. But let's just say I encourage persistent complaining since it sometimes works, just like a kid causing a fuss in the candy line. And what's wrong with causing a little " upset " to DTG staff ( or rather management ), if that's what it takes to get a positive reaction?
You know, by using derogatory terms such as "fanboy", it doesn't make you any better. Instead of stooping to their level, why not be the bigger, more mature one rather than being childish and resorting to name calling.
If the issue of memory usage spikes south of Watford is thought to be the inclusion of the overground section of the Bakerloo, then surely it should be possible to test that by using the new layer management function to exclude Bakerloo. And by implication, should not DTG already have done that and therefore can answer that question?
No, because that section is baked in and is not a layer. What is being referred to is that the section from Harrow to Queen's Park was reused in terms of modelling and extended upon to form the new route
Exactly. So long as its respectful and constructive. I'm sure they are all good people, I had the pleasure of meeting Matt many years ago at the NRM Cab It event, 2002 or 2003 I think it was when MSTS was at its height - few beers after, great guy. But as the EP of a high profile product for a multi £million company also not afraid to post about where I feel things are going wrong and as EP he is in the rather unenviable position of having to motivate the troops, fend off the searching questions from higher up and take on board the customer criticism.
Just been doing my research, found that we are missing 7 more services for the 390 back to Wembley Intercity Depot. Only 4 Services back to the depot from Euston. When their should be 11.. The 4 we got is 5M86 and 5A61 (/1 services) and 5A83 and 5M62 (/0 services) somehow missing 7... So we are missing 5A72/ 5M17/5A80/5M18/5M60/5M19/5A82. Checking morning services from Wembley Intercity depot, we have got all of them and no missing gaps. No doubt this is due to big gaps in the 390 timetable. Thankfully Liam is sorting it out and not sure if Liam was aware with this. DTG Liam Sorry for the Tag but hope this helps Realtime Trains | Departures from Wembley Inter City Depot between 2000 and 0400 on 09/10/2024
Would also be nice for a "Caledonian Sleeper" morning and evening moves with Class 47's at each end with some sort of coaching stock in the middle ;-)
Also as well, some of the services have incorrect times on them Doing 5H03, service starts at 0622. In IRL meant to start at 0609
Come on guys not let go off topic and all by civil please! Now I don’t want my feedback getting buried between arguments
But they are developing the game for both types of platform and don't distinguish between PCs and the latest gen consoles, i.e. the lowest common denominator wins, so your opening snort doesn't mean very much. Sure, the modders have headroom but I bet they'd struggle if they were able to get their stuff onto console. (My 'area' is (also) commercial C++ software development on PC, UNIX (in the day) and Mac.)
I had a go Euston - Wembley run and it is honestly the most cursed thing I’ve ever seen lol. That needs fixing so bad, no way they had access to route maps/videos let alone driver input for that.
It is terrible mate. RTT is pretty accurate and for the route to be set in the current timetable WCML has but somehow yet mess up lots of services when you have RTT and other sources Publicly available is just not acceptable, repeated myself time and time again but how they have big gaps in the timetable I do not know.
There’s so many cab rides on YouTube of that section and it’s literally in London I don’t know how they messed up that section
