A Request For More And Stronger Moderation

Hi DTG,

I have watched the last 48hrs on this forum and its bizar how much is going on here....

The behavior of some users is simply absurd and is again taking on very antisocial forms. I wonder why that is not limited and especially the supervision of topics that are opened just to score is really annoying. Is there no possibility to merge these kinds of topics when another one is opened.

I also call on these people to first search and see where I can express my opinion instead of opening another topic with the same meaning.

Furthermore, of course without texts like "scumbags" and I don't know everything I have seen pass by.

Thank you and no, I will not enter into a discussion with others about this message with the possible result that it gets out of hand.

Please consider whether your community rules are appropriate because I have the feeling that they are being happily ignored.

 

We have seen Jan active in some of the threads that were getting out of hand.

However there is a very fine line between gagging effective and constructive criticism and only allowing happy thoughts to be posted, as used to happen (maybe still does) on one of the prominent American forums for TSC.

Equally with those who criticise are the element who come in and defend DTG even when blatantly in the wrong, or presume to act as unofficial spokesmen (no names, no packdrill but I’m sure all are familiar with one individual in particular, who comes across like the smart kid in Polar Express ).

Generally the moderation has been pretty good, except at weekends when the anarchy tends to pile up. Maybe also the CoC needs a few more examples of what is and isn’t acceptable. Not ashamed to admit I’ve used the term “fanboy” or “acolyte “ myself on more than one occasion and generally stick by it, in the face of unreasonable unfettered adoration of the developer or product. But still, it’s probably not the most diplomatic way of expressing it.

I also think some need to accept other people do hold a different point of view to their own and not try to browbeat or bully them into declaring otherwise. That tends to inflame and prolong threads that would otherwise die down.

And to finish off, this forum is still a far friendlier place than many others out there. Try Speakers Corner at Overclockers UK, put a foot wrong and see the roof come down on you. Or the official Elite Dangerous forum where there’s more salt than the Atlantic Ocean.

 

This is the whole problem here...

Every time make "fun" about people with different opinions and not have respect for it.
Very nice to see direct in the first message and is exactly the problem. People read and learn is my advice. If people du such things its not fun and OldVern youre not funny. Please read my message above again i should say. What is wrong in your'e head to act like this?!

 

The things that annoy me mostly are people that spam 8 questions as individual threads, rather than just asking them all on one thread. I think over the past week someone has asked ‘is X route good’ and managed to create threads for half the routes in TSW.

Then you have the people that want to replicate their own ‘enough is enough’ low effort criticism posts.

The winner this week though is the person who created several threads asking for help, without telling anyone what the issue was, kept replying aggressively to people with incoherent rants. Jan then stepped into to tell people to be nicer to the OP - after the OP had been calling people several names.

At the end of the day though, this is the internet & you just take it as it comes. This isn’t the worst forum by a long shot & generally I just ignore the worst of it.

Personally the biggest thing I’ve agreed with in a while here though is the one post regarding the community team being out of touch. I find there was a bigger handle on things in general under Sam, Nat & JD. Not just in moderation, but community reach in general.

 

Its very fair to conclude that the forums needs weekend moderation and i think you can not leave a forum alone with so much users. If you choose a forum you have some things to look at and not "its weekend see you next week!"

 

Let me be clear... There is always a more worse one and make such claims doesn't mean its going well here in defenition!

 

Yeah don’t worry, I agree with that sentiment 100%

 

Posted that in another thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.

Yes - there's times when it's not easy to let personal attacks uncommented, and there's very sick methods in here of framing people, marking them as bullies or police just because of different views. The just closed thread is a fine example how these people operate.

Now even using the Report button is dangerous according to the new Code of Conduct by Harry.

I had received a one week ban recently without any explanation as to why that happened. I consider myself being straight and direct, and most of the time I'm here to help others, you won't see me posting many questions because I do know my TSC/TSW very well. And I don't shy away from a discussion, even if my points are unpopular, but I justify them without attacking anyone.

It even seems we only need the General Discussions for everything, even some old forum members posting troubleshooting requests in here. I do notice, but I'm not commenting on that anymore. I'm not saying we need a perfectly moderated forum like rail-sim.de (strict structure, thread approval), but a bit more moderation wouldn't hurt.

 

Xander,
Don't appreciate anyone coming on the forum giving it the I'm street,hear me.
Have enough of that on my real street without seeing it here .
Do you want to operate as weekend moderator?
Or are you expecting feedback from Dovetail.
I know this will be read, don't honestly know where it takes you or me.
I come here and no where else for answers and information,past , present and future Train sim world.
Don't mind people getting worked up.
Do mind people having a go at each other.
I have to point the finger at Dovetail at some of boil over.
And also a large number of new users thinking they're messaging their mates.
Dovetail community forum:
For practically zero information or updates on early access and release of version 5.
It wouldn't have taken anyone five minutes to keep customers in the loop.
Said similar on few threads the last month;
Last I'm going to say it.
Official forum;equals information here please.

 

And with that statement you're just as bad as the people you seem to be criticising!

Nowt wrong with my brain (honest)...

 

It ruins the Immersion of the forum....

 

Every one has a right to voice their opinion, regarding the game.
Those opinions are open for argument.
What really gets me peeved, is when one user voices their opinion of another user.

Don't go there, keep that opinion to yourself.
There's people I don't particularly like in life. Still that doesn't give me any right to voice my opinion of somebody I don't even know!
If you feel you are under personal attack or being called fowl names. Just hit the report button. Then that post will be moderated.
There's no need for staff to continuously look over every thread for anything other than feedback.

 

Would it make sense to have an unhelpful button, rather than tearing into each other?
I understand what the report button is for now.
Not seen much I've felt like using it for this week, unless it was by accident.
Like most of you I ignore irrelevant stuff.

 

Don't think so. "Dislikes" can be very hurtful, as they can be used for bullying without explaining. They removed that function years ago for very good reasons. Ignoring is better in that case.

 

Thanks Spikee
I forgot people can be the worst version of themselves, tapping away on their keyboards.

 

Spikee1975 is absolutely the worst of them all

I mean how can you not complete Operation Stealth, absolutely despicable

 

The third disk of the crack had a Read/Write error

 

I forgot to mention thief

What's the ELSPA phone number again?

 

How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

 

1I'm sure the moderator will come right now and close this topic to hell)

 

I know I'm guilty of dragging things off topic.

As it's not TSW related, let's move the whole thread there too.

 

Ack Eep Oop!

 

Surprisingly, these forums are a whole lot less toxic than another place I frequent.

In that other place (which I will not name), say you like something no one else does, and you can guarantee it'll not end well for you.

 

Agreed, Mumsnet is basically a dictatorship

 

Personally think that the biggest issue is people trying to moderate others without moderating tools or significant knowledge to challenge proeprly.

I've been guilty of saying it how it is, when it comes to UK railway operations, as that's what I do, drive trains, and I won't be told by someone faceless warrior at their keyboard that I'm wrong, when I've sat many rules exams to work on the railway.

Also, for people that do not speak English as a first language, try several translation tools before posting, as sometimes your translations come across as a little bit aggressive to a native speaker.

 

Are you 100% sure.

 

and herein lies the fundamental issue with your/DTG moderating, you get protagonists stir the pot often subtly and when people reply negatively to their opinion or point they get all butthurt and report and then DTG moderation shortsightedness or laziness start issuing time outs and even perma-bans without even understanding or appreciating the context.

 

The forum members on here are, in my opinion, lovely! I understand that it is difficult to differentiate between arguments and self-defence, which is partly why we have moderators: to help remind us about where the line is.

I do believe there should be a better system for weekend moderation than staff working in their free time, but I can't figure out a viable solution. I get the impression, however, that most people are content with the current level of moderation on the weekend, so it is unlikely to change anytime soon.

 

good post usually when I see some thread getting out of hand, I chime in with my two respectful cents and if it doesnt help, I just move on... as for separate threads on some things, I only create separate threads if I encounter a specific issue I need help/advice with and that I am afraid would get lost in a much larger feedback thread usually that approach pays off as some ppl jump in there and offer advice and information, that is also then easily accessible and found in case someone else in the future is seeking help with that specific thing

so, I will use this space here to thank all ppl who have helped me over the time on this forum, provided me with info and all that I would have no other means of getting or finding out trains are amazing FOR THE EMPEROOOR

 

So, the problem is an annual one, I'm afraid.
New release, new players, and new bugs.

A lot of people buy the game, run into serious issues, are not familiar with a bunch that have plagued the game for years, and come to the forums annoyed that the product they purchased does not work as advertised.

This does not excuse how some of them choose to then speak to the regular forum users who try to offer help, but it does explain the short fuses, and the sheer volume of them. And it is going to keep happening as long as we have annual releases with the same issues repeating over and over.

 

and with ever expanding roster of DLCs, stuff is bound to happen

 

It's also players that have been here since Day 1 on Xbox, that spent a whole 2 years reporting issues to DTG, and the same issues are still in the 5th version of the product.

 

Honestly, Never take anything online seriously or personal. Ever. It's literally just digital text on a screen. Once you do that, life gets a whole lot more calmer online.

As far as the forum itself, it's pretty decent. I've only come across a few times were a thread absolute lost its mind.
But aside from that, I think DTG is doing pretty good.

 

I think the forum is moderated well enough as it is, sure there are differences of opinions flying around, but that makes a forum. Everybody on here are passionate about TSW, but not everybody is going to want the same thing from TSW or agree what DTG have done and with that comes differences in opinion.

Sure, let's make the moderators work weekends as well, who's footing the bill for that? There is nothing that urgent that it can't wait to be resolved the following week if required. Sure, there is a bit of revenge reporting going on, where a person loses a debate and they raise a complaint for revenge and maybe weekends are needed to be there for this purpose? The only problem that would require weekend moderation would be the issue of safeguarding and how much is a software company responsible for that on a digital platform that has an off switch, as in people can walk away from it.

 

sth I love about this forum/community is that sooner or later, someone will provide me info for an issue or gaps in my knowledge, putting my mind at ease ... sure, sometimes it takes time, but it happens, eventually ... most of the time, community and sometimes also DTG ppl chipping in are very helpful ... I remember Matt, Maik or Cwf.Green offering some very good advice and information that left me in awe ... others as well, just naming a few off the top of my head

 

Anyhow, think this place is bad. Earlier on I posted something on our local community Facebook group about a homeless guy making a nuisance of himself begging by the cash points at our local Tesco Superstore. I got a virtual burning at the stake for being such a terrible person for having the temerity to suggest this might not be the best place to allow someone to beg. Ended up taking the post down to avoid further agro, even though it was very diplomatically worded and got a few likes.

 

" Social Media is the toilet of the Internet. " -Lady Gaga.

Back on topic. As the Moderators have said repeatedly, if someone posts a troll or something ugly or unpleasant, simply ignore them.
Unfortunately so many of us find that to be impossible.

 

Ultimately true. As is "don't like it don't buy it".

 

This makes me wonder if we will be allowed to be Critical to High Iron Simulations content on TSW in the future to point out issues and errors on them without being call "Rivet Counters" and such.

Also, these forums need a mod to run on the weekend to keep them mostly sane. I remember a few years ago when an Asian bot kept spam posting threads in all the forums around here and made it a pain to navigate the forums over a weekend, till DTG came back on Monday.

 

Can't the OP just ignore posts he doesn't like rather than asking for better moderation? The moderation on these forums are fine

 

Too many snowflakes around now! If you dont like a topic ignore it, simple! The moderation on this forum is fine as it is thank you very much!

 

…apart from perhaps the WCML leak a couple of months ago…..

 

Precisely. This and the event that BlacknRed81 mentioned in their last paragraph are exactly why we need some form of weekend moderation that isn't the regular weekday staff working on weekends. While nothing bad came out of those events, similar things may happen again in the future, and they may not be so benign next time. I'm trying to think of an analogy to help explain my point, but I can't really think of one that doesn't blow things out of proportion.

I know it sounds extreme, but this is the internet, where you can't trust everyone.

TLDR: It's not about disagreements, it's about security.

 

I was coming at the "not operating on the weekends" issue from a player's point of view. From a company's perspective, it is their choice not to moderate the forums on the weekends, which then in turn answers your statement by itself. It's DTG product and if they choose not to operate moderation on the weekend it's their choice.

 

When all else fails, you can always call the following, an elite band of mercenary forum moderators.


All joking aside I've learnt a lot overnight about a small minority of users on these forums and I'll now be steering well clear of any thread they are posting in, and if they enter a thread I'm already discussing in, I'll cease interaction.

 

Not hard to imagine a scenario that needs a quick response. Say, if a bot starts dropping phishing links into its posts over the weekend.

 

Worst scenario is if it's a bot that'll post downright illegal content.
Definitely unlikely, but still very much a possibility considering what I've had to put up with moderating on Discord.

 

That could be avoided by having new members on moderated posting for their first few posts.

 

... which is already happening, at least according to JD.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/unannounced-content-leak-19-july.82998/



I don't think much is gonna change (and I've settled with it, not that it's ultimately important or affecting the game itself). I remember when these forums started (for TSC in 2018), people complained "we already have the Steam forums, why do we need another one" .

The forums don't even have ads, so eventually DTG will decide to drop them completely after an accountant will ask the vital question "What benefit does it bring to us, and what costs does it cause?", as Discord is much cheaper for them.

Noticed that the forum Logout is still broken (more than two years), they don't have funds or intention to even fix that.