Db Br 420

What im interested in is on how its going to release.
Will they release it for a 10 Minute run on Frankfurt? I dont know what yall think but it seems a bit of a short distance for a loco dlc.
As now stated no extension is planned, does make it even more confusing.

 

What about the Route that has already been announced, the Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn: Mannheim - Kaiserslautern, could it perhaps be used there?


Edit: The Name of the Route

 

Well TSG is making a new route right? Cant it be for that route?

 

It will comes nerlay soon

 

The 232 is the one that I am waiting for but yes a 420 would be good!

 

lol, that has been said for the past 5 years, I believe it when I see it.

 

Yea m2 but Lukas say it

 

From the new layer selector, there seems to be layers for lfr and niddertalbahn as well. There might be future routes that have it layered in as well

 

Mybe we get the full s Bahn line because under Frankfurt we have station point and tracks

 

They said that 5 years ago lol. This is not a matter of when it releases, but IF it releases. The very fact that a good developer is being held back from releasing a hugely anticipated product because DTG is too greedy to fix HMA (which has been out for 4 years now and was never fixed) is sad. I believe there are other TSG products that were announced at the same time and quitely removed from the roadmap as well. , though no one seemed to have noticed, or cared. I hate to say it but the DB BR 420 has become vapourware. It will sit there gathering dust on Maiks computer, waiting for an update that will never come. This begs the question though. The community has proven that they create good timetables, so maybe DTG should consider adding some of them to the base game? I believe there is a new HMA timetable, a new GWE timetable, a new TVL timetable, and loads more that could hugely benefit the game and possibly allow for products like the DB BR 420 to be released. It is sad that the community is better at fixing a multi million companies game for free than said multi million company is themselves. As the saying goes, we really got GTA 6 before the DB BR 420

 

That makes no sense; the 420 never ran on either line. (OK, in theory it might make an AI train at Bad Villbel at the interchange with the Frankfurt S6, and at Mainz as the S8... except AI at one stop isn't a "layer")

 

I highly doubt they're still waiting for HMA with it. They probably decided to use it for something else at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if TSG's new route would feature it.

 

HMA is completely borked and would need a rebuild. Forget that route.

 

It is though? I mean Niddertalbahn has a whole LFR layer just for two stations and a few AI trains. The 420 will probably layer in the exact same way as the 103 and 110 does.

 

I sense a sweepstake coming on...

What will release first - the DB 420 or the BR Clas 104!

 

TSW 6

 

Yeah, making jokes over a long announced but not yet released product is fun, somehow. But before doing the jokes, read all the relevant comments i did here on the forums about it. And it is not DTGs fault that HMA (MAG) is not receiving an update/upgrade for the 420. It is not on DTG to do that. If i (TSG) want to have it upgraded, i need to do it myself. I would do it when there were any chance to do that in a economical way. But that's not the case, not even nearly. And community timetables don't help here. They are made for PC only. PC is not the problem with that route. It's the consoles. It needs all the available RAM already. No space for additional trains and services. But the 420 is an additional train and needs further services. So, it's a NO finally.

There is a plan, as i already told here somewhere. We need to change lots of 3d art aspects on that train to make it happen. But that new plan is way more solid than the old one. AND as also already said a few times, the Munich version of the 420 will survive that and is included in the pack on release, but without any services.

It's not that far away...

 

Well, it is their fault that the route is left to rot in an borderline unplayable state.
Active 1000hz magnets near clear signals on the mainline, followed by red signals that never change and so on.

 

I think you will find this post is not about to age well!

 

I am sorry that I haven't shut up about the DB BR 420, but HMA is a DTG route, not Maiks, not Skyhooks, not Rivet, but DTG. There is no reason for DTG not to update it. DTG shouldn't have released a route in such a bad state if they knew that it wasn't able to be fixed. At this point, just scrap the HMA 420 and release it for another route. It as quite clear that after 4 years that HMA is not getting touched.

 

Maik, the route is completely broken and is not really "TSW4+ compatible". The signalling seems to be incompatible with changes in the core, Munich Hbf is not accessible, and ICEs to Augsburg also are often denied entry. That is DTG's and only DTG's fault.

 

Yeah, that might be the case. But that is not the point here in this 420 discussion. The route is what it is. But if i want to have changes to being able to bring my 3rd party train to that route, i have to do them myself and can't expect DTG doing it for me and my train DLC. That is what i said with "It's not DTGs fault". And we did had a try to solve the problems but that fails because of the huge amount of work that needs to be done to make it happen. Basically the whole signalling and the original TT have to be redone. Nothing TSG can achieve and nothing DTG want to do.

 

I'll be happy with the 420 wherever it may run. Take your time, you know better than anyone how to do it properly.

 

Personally I don't mind if it won't be a HMA add-on, as I don't really care about that particular route. But I am interested in the 420 itself, so to me this is good news, lol.

So looking forwad to hearing more about it hopefully in the near future.

 

Thats nothing new ... you can add a couple of locos for TSC to that list, that never made it to public. We´ve had this problem in the past several times. There are reasons for it, but it´s still a shame for the players.

 

Is is that bad? I own it, but never play it... if that´s true, DTG should do something about it. Atleast should be in a state so that the community can work with it and drive from A to B.
We also know this from Train Sim Classic. I´ll only say Köln Airport Extension. Putting out unplayable broken stuff is something they seem to do every couple of years.
"Oh well, that went wrong. Shall we try again? No, just put it on Steam store, it will be fine".

 

Don't release it for HMA then! You know as well as we do that the updates you are waiting for are never going to happen, no matter how much we whine about it. Release it for another route! Are you not currently working on a german route? Release it on that. No offense, but if you wait for updates that never come, thats when your product becomes vapourware. As nice as it would be to have on HMA, it has been clear for years now that these signal and timetable updates are not going to happen.

 

It's already confirmed the 420's main route won't be HMA. However, we might get a munich variant of the 420 as well (if the plan didn't change), so we can use it on free roam on HMA.

 

So why the heck are we waiting for the HMA updates then?!!?

 

Who said "we" are?

 

What "HMA updates"??

 

"We" are not. Maik's post that you quoted explained why the 420 won't come to HMA.

 

I can't release a train without gameplay, what would be the case with HMA then. So the Munich version has to wait until the other one comes out with gameplay present. The Munich version is just a byproduct at that time. Players have to care their self how to use it.

 

What about Cologne? Or are there the same problems there?

 

Couldn't the Munich version simply subtitute for the BR 423 on HMA? That would give it gameplay pretty much out of the box, no?

 

Nope, substitution does not work that way (3-car versus 4-car train).

 

Ah, okay. I didn't know they differ in length.

 

I am happy it cant be released for HMA not a big fan of the route

 

It is a bit of a snooze fest isn’t it, HMA

 

I apologise if I've missed anything, but which possible routes could the 420 run that aren't HMA? I'm aware it could be for AI on Link-Rhinestrecke and Niddertalbahn but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

 

Honestly thought about buying HMA when it was on sale, glad I didn't though if the 420 ain't happening on it anytime soon. That said I do hope that if (hopefully when) the 232 happens that RSN doesn't prove troublesome, I quite like that route from the little time I've put in.

I'm kind of surprised it needs gameplay considering that there are packs in TSC that don't feature any scenarios by default. Also to make that a straight up requirement seems like it could cause issues if someone someday decides to do a locomotive that doesn't really fit on any existing route. Also even if it does need gameplay, couldn't you just make a really slimmed down timetable. Like, wouldn't making some comically pathetic like making a timetable where it's just one 30 second service with no AI fulfill DTG's requirements? Imagine that would run on everything no problem!

Don't get me wrong, I get why it's preferable certainly, but I'm kind of surprised that DTG would make it a full on requirement to do so.

 

It's not a (written) requirement from DTG yet. It's a unwritten requirement from the customers. I will not try to release any loco DLC without an appropriate amount of gameplay or i will fail with selling it as needed. That's a true fact in TSW. Anyone who thinks of doing just loco DLCs like in TSC, forget it, that will not work out good. TSW is all about gameplay (at the majority of the player base).

 

Probably the forthcoming (unnamed) TSG route.

 

You seem to be the one waiting for updates!

That train left the station a long time ago from my recollection!

I (thankfully) bought HMA very cheaply in a sale and drove it once and don't even have it installed now. I used to love the TSC version.

I am very much looking forward to the 420 and whatever route it will be running on.

 

I guess you weren't here for, or don't remember, the release of the original Southeastern High Speed.

The original route was criticised for having an empty timetable. So, they added before release the services that had been held back for the 465 (at the time, the 465 was a separate add-on), and they were assigned to the 375. This meant the 465 released with only a couple of scenarios and substituted into the timetable. People were not best pleased with that either as it made the 465 very low value for money compared to everything else.

 

Just out of curiosity what sales data or info are you basing it on? Because off the top of my head unless you're talking loco DLCs which just sub into existing services (the MP36 & 313 come to mind) I don't think there's necessarily any loco DLCs which have released in TSW with no sort of timetable support out of the box. I imagine that's probably a correct assumption mind you, but I would be curious if you're basing this on harder data than us mortals have access to.

Funnily enough one of my favorite add-on's is a item which adds no content to the timetable, the MP36 specifically. And for what it's worth from what I remember the 465 was actually a very highly acclaimed add-on when it released, lack of additional services be damned, the engine's rather well made. I vaguely remember some add-on getting mud slung at it for lack of services, but I don't remember the 465 specifically getting those complaints commonly, but could easily be wrong. And ultimately I'm not sure how much that really matters, a lot of things have gotten complaints on the forums only to sell fine anyways, (see most things put out by Rivet) meanwhile other add-ons get praise here yet fail to sell among broader audiences (Clinchfield was praise here a lot on release, but hasn't done well enough to warrant more US diesel routes in the same era).

 

It might be total fiction, but I would willingly take the 420 as a substitute for the wretched Dosto formations on any route where they currently run. I know it’s not that easy but from the end customer point of view my £15 is ready and waiting even if the route and service group is not entirely accurate. Anything to avoid the tedious 766 cab car driving is okay in my book. Would even take a 420 on those all stations DCZ services, would be marvellous compared to 90 minutes in a cab car.

 

While I understand disliking the Dostos - i don't like driving them as well -, this idea will never be reality. Not even because I or someone else says "that's completely nonsense", but because of the substitution logic. The BR 420 is a 3-waggon-consist. Hardly anywhere in TSW there is a 3 car Dosto consist. There might be a few on RSN or DCZ, but that's about it.
But also: big no to that idea. I'm sure TSG knows what they're doing. And if that needs more time, that's fine

 

Remaking a timetable would still be a huge amount of work for tsg which they might not have the time or budget to do. It's not something they could spend 5 minutes on.

 

No 420 was ever developed by anyone. Information about it was added to the roadmap only for the sake of creating a meme.