PC Wcmls Enhancement Pack | Update 10 Now Available

Exactly. How you respond to an entirely neutral and objective comment is your responsibility at the end of the day.

It actually makes life a lot easier if you give people benefit of the doubt with the intent of their comments. Yep, you can't please everyone, but most people who make these observations aren't doing it with any malice.

 

I see another drama is brewing over some words over social media. Sometimes this place seems like an episode of Eastenders but with even worse acting and where the plot never ends.

I can understand that "suggestions" on how something can be done better or some other such improvements could be made, would be galling, when people are giving up their time and talents for free to create and improve things. Plus they are probably trying to sort out the genuine issues which have occurred.

 

Heck they probably just need sleep! It's easy to take stuff like that personally. It's like someone telling you your baby would look great in blue, while you've just spent an hour getting them dressed in red. You're gonna take it personally. (I do have a baby, but I am not a fashionista so this analogy is a bit rubbish, sorry).

Once again pointing out this is awesome, and personal preferences are just that

I would totally pay for this. I'm getting it for free (potential impregnation aside). Be churlish to complain.

 

no! I´m giving my view on why the modder is snapping at some people.

 

Seen it happen far too many times though. Like, I understand how it feels to have people pick apart a passion project, but it's happened one too many times for it to just be brushed off. And on this occasion it felt just way too overzealous.

 

If I spent a month working on a massive project like this without getting paid and someone moans about something trivial as that i'd be a little annoyed too. Some people really do get hung up on tiny things yet ignore the bigger issues.

If you ask me the fact that modders have completely saved the route in only a month speaks volumes about the lack of quality control and unrealistic deadlines at DTG and Rivet. They can and must do better.

 

That is true, however I don't think DTG and Rivet being incompetent is justification for getting snappy when someone expresses their thoughts on a small detail. Yes, it's streets, if not cityblocks ahead of the base offering (I've not seen anyone denying as such tonight) but feedback is feedback, and for modders who disliked Rivet's approach to handling feedback (i.e. do it yourself if you think you're so smart), to take a leaf out of that company's playbook is frankly uncalled for.

 

Whether or not the initial snappiness was "justified", it's really lacking understanding of the sacrifices involved in making a pack like this (e.g. simple sleep depravation is enough to make people a little bit grouchier than they otherwise would be) to highlight it and bring it up to everyone's attention. And that is why you are getting so much pushback.

If there were a pattern of seriously bad behaviour it would be one thing, but you gotta learn to let things slide dude.

The rest of us continue to appreciate this torrent of awesome free stuff

 

I'm not discounting the sacrifices at all. I just didn't find it funny the first time I saw a modder do it, and a friend of mine today found it even less funny when they absent-mindedly were reading comments on the WCML page. I know they've poured a metric shed-ton of time, effort and soul into the thing, no-one has been denying that to my knowledge, but this is multiple modders deciding to go in with barbs on small feedback when it really wasn't necessary, fatigue or not.

 

It may not have been necessary, but highlighting their response isn't necessary either. Do you see what I'm saying?

Pragmatism

 

And for the record, I do appreciate modders. I started off on Xbox One in the TSW2020 days, and while the game has gone from strength to strength since then, it has a lot to thank modders for, and I salute their efforts. I just don't think being saviours of a game grants them the right to treat someone giving feedback in a horrible manner.

 

I've seen multiple modders do this to varying degrees (and I've been on the receiving end of ableist slurs for giving my opinion on a route before) and this is frankly the worst I've seen it.

 

Maybe there is a common denominator?

 

is there a image of the class 377/7 that was said is in the EP?

 

Did you use Photomode or God Mode Time change at all during the run?
If you used either it will break the timetable.

 

Rudeness is rudeness. You might be feeling grouchy, you might have an axe to grind, doesn't matter. If you are rude with someone, you open yourself to being called out on it. It's really as simple as that and it's important because if it isn't recognised and called out, it becomes normalised and eventually the community as a whole becomes toxic.

It's honestly a massive reach to try to assume that just because someone made a comment that didn't specifically include a word of praise that it was 'lacking understanding of the sacrifices involved'. Like that is a hugely negative analysis of an entirely neutral thing, and a little bit akin to throwing one's toys out the pram.

If modders want to feel good with some positive feedback, there's literally tons of it to be found already. Getting hissy about a single comment of feedback which was entirely constructive and arguably even long enough to be a 'moan' is just so hard to understand. Like... literally THREE of the people who developed this mod each posted their own sarky response to it, so it definitely struck a nerve.

Remarkably, real people exist behind screens and words can hurt, especially those that are completely uncalled for. There is no effort in basic decency when we talk to each other online. Literally, just do better or this toxicity we see often in the community will never go away.

 

Just to point out as someone that's internal to all this.

It most certainly hasn't been a single comment of feedback. There's been a lot of "Feedback" about incredibly minor nitpicky things. I've seen comments about colours of the NMT being the wrong shade of yellow, or people complaining about performance when we have specifically mentioned it's going to run worse than the default Route/TT. People reporting crashes that would have been resolved if they'd simply read the EP page, or the PDF provided. Jetwash spent several days ensuring that PDF was good, so to have people not read it, then bring up issues that would be resolved from reading it is going to be annoying. People bringing up issues caused by other mods, and even reporting base game/route problems as being caused by the EP.

99% of people are completely fine, and give valuable feedback, whether it is praise or how things can be improved. But there are certainly some specific people that bring up the most minor things in not the best way, and it grinds people down after a while. This forum is especially bad for toxicity, there is a reason a lot of us mostly stick to the TSC Discord.

 

^^^ This

Thanks all. Please stop now.

We are obviously very tired after trying to squash some really random bugs occuring last second, and you can understand it can be very time consuming doing this, at the same time as a fielding complains from people who haven't read any of the instructions, or bombard us with bugs which are a fault of the original DLC. All of this is free guys, and we're not here for adulation but to everyone - keep your expectations within reason. We don't have the full editor, things take ages to do, and add-on manager is an utter pita which makes life a lot more difficult than it should be.

Best that we take a break now rather than releasing the patch we were intending, to maintain our sanity.

BR
Steve

 

Absolutely.

Just to add that my response to that comment probably wasn’t my finest hour but I stick by the sentiment, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Feedback is always welcome, pointless & unfounded nitpicking is not. Imagine getting a mod like this then complaining that a light is on when you feel it shouldn’t be. Regarding the NPCs, I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday altering those amongst other things but I would say that the ones in the release are exactly the same as the ones in all the pre-release videos and not a single person mentioned them, not even once.

This is a free mod that people who have actual jobs, families and lives have done in their spare time. Some of the guys have literally been staying up all night over and again working on it. Thankfully the vast majority of you get it and we really do appreciate that, so thankyou.

However, when people can’t even do us the courtesy of reading the instructions or the included documentation but come to us literally expecting us to hold their hands it grates after a while;

‘Where can I download it? How do I install it? It doesn’t work, this light is on, this light isn’t on, I see liveries more than I think I should, when is it released, why isn’t it available yet, why haven’t you done X, Y, Z, this signal doesn’t work, something’s wrong with the signals, is this available on console, why isn’t it available on console, there are 7 NPC’s across the route more than there were when I travelled it for real at 05:32 last Wednesday, why does the route only go to Milton Keynes, I have to click the download button more times than I want to’ and on and on and on.

I even got asked the other day to walk someone through how to use GodMode. How and when did that become my responsibility?

JW

 

All of you involved in the creation of this mod should be very proud. It's your best EP to date, IMO and I heard Tom Harrison from Just Trains was certainly very impressed with what you have achieved too.
I for one am very grateful for your efforts so BIG thank you. Also, shoutout to JetWash for recommending Lossless Scaling. I had never heard of this program before but thanks to you not only has it improved my TSW experience but also improved other games that I play too!

 

FWIW, to those ‘new members’ riding the moral high horse we have a sneaking suspicion this is the same person. It you count this as constructive feedback then fine. We don’t.

 

I didn't use either of those. However, I did rejoin the run after saving. is it likely that that would also have broken it?

 

More than likely yeah, save game can be a bit of a mess. I can at least guarantee it doesn't break like that normally. I finished 2T18 earlier on today and it completed no problem, nothing blocking it.

 

The lights that users referring to are actually on most on most nights after dark. I was wondering why he was giving me beef in that Facebook thread. Absolute baffon of a person.

 

Thanks for clarifying

 

Thankyou Bryer. I was 99% certain they were permanent lights. Seen them flash by many times.

 

Sadly this is the problem with social media. Armchair experts feel empowered to say what they like without taking a moment to realise they are addressing another human being. It also appears to have seen the wanton destruction of punctuation!

People wouldn't say half the things in person they type into their keyboard.

The vast majority are very grateful for the work all of you put in.

 

No worries.

Yeah if I'm driving and they aren't on, I'm surprised. They are automatically turned on if there is a worksite possession taken nearby as its a RRV entrance point, so they are illuminated to stop the points getting destroyed by eager digger drivers smashing through them.

 

I just wanted to express my sincere gratitude to all involved with the creation of this mod. It really has transformed a severely lacklustre route into what it always should have been, and more. And to think we get this for free? Created by community members in their own time!

I really hope you guys don’t take the unnecessary nit picking, negativity and criticism to heart. Cheers to you all and thank you very much!

 

I’m not here often but an absolutely cracking enhancement I say! Thank you very much.

 

This is very true... in the TSC community there i a lot less of that going on and if so, people usually start "standing up" for the modder, so they do not even need to step in and defend themselfs.

As a tsc modder, I fully stand with the people finally making "big" mods for TSW... if some folks think they can be smart with nitpicky comments, you will see what it will bring. At some point people will stop releasing stuff and then everyone will start crying. I´ve seen this in TSC many times.

 

If you see something minor you don't like or don't agree with on a freeware project, you don't have to tell the world.

 

My deepest bow and boundless gratitude to the group of authors of this mod!!! Thank you very much, I get great pleasure. Now I have hope that sooner or later the schedule and rolling stock of another era (80-90) will arrive on this route.

 

Just taking one thing alone, I don’t think people have a clue or understand how clever it is to have these ‘other’ trains in this EP. This isn’t like TSC where you can simply duplicate a train, change a few things on it and there it is although that is hard enough. It would be hard enough as it was but addon manager makes it a thousand times worse.

Remember when you were told by the representative of a payware provider that 3D nameplates weren’t possible? Not only do you have a duplicated train with a new livery, but it has a 3D nameplate and custom elements added to it. It’s easy to say ‘oh yeah, that NMT’, well that one thing alone probably took a week or more to sort out. Some very clever stuff went in to that and that was only possible because of the work the guys put into the 800/801 for Fife Circle. I can barely get to grips with how it’s been done, you should all be very grateful to the guys that figured it out through an awful lot of trial and error.

That’s without mention of the timetable, which is absolutely amazing. When these things become the ‘norm’ it’s easy to just assume they get thrown together and are straightforward. They are anything but and take a hell of a lot of work and dedication. As I said previously, we all work demanding jobs or are studying and have families and other commitments outside of a computer game.

 

I for one welcome our new orange overlords

 

Rejoining a run after saving has never worked in TSW. You can save and re-load within the same session, but you can't leave and re-load or trains ahead of you will get stuck and everything gets jammed. Nothing to do with the EP/new timetable.

 

Once again, you're missing the fact that none of us actually believe that the mod was easy to make. Like I've never said that, I've not implied it and that isn't even remotely related to the point I was trying to make. I have done software development stuff in the past, it's technical and skilled and I genuinely hugely respect anyone who achieves great things with it.

My point was simply that there are responsible ways to communicate and irresponsible ones. If you want to show someone up, be the better person, don't go down to their level. Your hard work on the mod does not excuse being mean - they are separate things and I don't know why this is hard to get?

 

Jesus. The amount of entitlement and snowflakery in here is massive.
"It's not to my exact liking, I must tell the whole wide world how outraged I am"

Grow a pair ffs. If you might not like the response, don't post the comment.

 

Someone felt that all the time spent on the ep wasn't appreciated and maybe got the arsenal a little bit. So what get over it!
If they worked for dtg and had a code of conduct to follow, and you had parted with cash for the ep then maybe a different story but it was free and the modders don't work for dtg! They can say what they like, so long as its within the forum rules.

 

JW & co made a product available free of charge to anyone that wants it. In much the same way that you (and others) are free to comment, disparage, praise or any other method of critiquing said product, they are absolutely equally free to respond in whtasoever manner they choose. They are beholden to noone but themselves, owe you nothing, and if they should choose to go completely radio silent that is their choice and right. Equally, while civility is an admirable human trait, patience also is and can be stretched by utterly irrelevant (and in this case, utterly wrong) "opinions". In addition, being offended on an internet stranger's behalf is baffling in the first place, but over some virtual orange lights in a virtual train game that a miniscule population of this world are even aware of? It borders on the ridiculous

You are one of only two posters that have embarked on this campaign and I for one do not appreciate it on this forum. Take your social justice elsewhere please

 

Congratulations and well done to all involved in the timetable and ep pack, the amount of time and patience you all must of had to get this released is amazing.
I have not given it a try yet as have not got the route but have seen the videos and it really brings the route to life.
Keep up the good work.

 

To play devil's advocate, to the rest of the posters on this thread taking the opposite tack (and in no way am I speaking on behalf of JW or anybody else on here), praise is good, constructive criticism is good, but some of the posts in this thread proclaiming JW & co to be gods (paraphrased) is equally as distasteful. Wind it back, as much as we don't need social justice here, we also don't need over zealous arse kissing

 

I appreciate all the kind comments we have received - it’s been a joy creating this pack - for some positive news now, de-shoeing the 350 has gone all well, will aim to have it in game later, but for now I know it works in the editor

 

Finally got around to trying the pack out, and I must say it feels like an actual route now. Plenty of traffic, correct formations and atmospheric signage, this is what a route like this should be. Well done to all involved and I can't wait for the freight update!

One small thing, I'm not sure if it has been pointed out yet and if it can be resolved or not, but on the 805 when two units are coupled together the taillights on both stay on. It's not a major thing and I'm sorry if it has already been said, but that was a thing that I noticed so I thought I'd point it out.

 

I did notice it myself, but I forgot to mention it, my apologies. The 801 used as a base is an absolute pain to work with, I’ll get it looked into.

 

Basic manners are not social justice, they are basic manners. This should be a kind and inclusive community but it's so toxic because people like you believe you can say basically anything to anyone and have zero consequences. Some of us care about the community, if you don't that's not my problem.

Just make it known I will absolutely call out poor behaviour when I see it. As you said, I am free to comment.

 

I've noticed something weird with the frame rate at Euston.
If I spawn on foot at 8am on today's date (24-10) the frame rate is at about 55.
If I spawn on foot at 8am on July 24th its at about 60.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

So the “That is all, I'm giving this a rest now. Hope you all get better soon <3” quoted from you at 14:16 PM on the 24/10/2024 doesn’t matter then?

 

Depends on your specs, but just by comparing the dates I'd say you'll have longer shadows in October, which could hit the FPS.

 

Take a look in the mirror before demanding something from others.

Stop derailing the thread, you'll be ignored from now on.