London Overground Mildmay Line: Stratford-willesden Junction Discussion Thread

From what I see in he's thread, geezers a genius man! I was happy when it was announced dtg took him onboard.

Definitely gonna offer my support with day 1 purchase.

 

I’m sure the scenery for this will be top notch, and for a solo dev I can appreciate why Willesden has been chosen as a limit given the constraints.

That does stop it from being a highly-likely full price purchase for me, however (and I normally never purchase at full price, but this route is special to me), and that’s a shame. That’s my feedback.

And that feedback comes with the territory when you’re selling a product rather than developing freeware, but I hope the developer has prepared for that and doesn’t let it deter him. There’ll be a market for the route, and I hope he makes a success of it and goes on to even greater things.

I also hope that we’ll get the full route somehow someday*, and that’s where I think everyone can appreciate a sense of frustration lies - routes aren’t likely to get revisited so this could be it for the Mildmay Line and people who wanted to head down to Clapham and Richmond understandably feel sad about the situation.

Edit*: and not just in a Route Hop form, because that’s quite the break in immersion. Now, if Route Hop were to be enhanced such that it supports linking from one service through to an equivalent in another ‘route’ such that you never leave the driver’s seat and the train is still set up and the timetable is exactly the same (a quick loading screen is allowed, being realistic), that might be a conversation we can have.
However, that doesn’t sit well with the potential plans to introduce ‘random faults’ causing delays as suggested in the Winter Survey, as that should throw the timetable out of whack, and you wouldn’t want to try syncing that up between routes.

 

I guess when dtg see what was achieved in so little time, they would have been stupid not to offer.

 

That was my thought too but a conversation should have been had about a much longer gestation period to enable a full line route.
Kudos to Johannes anyway!

 

Will admit that at 12 miles this route is a bit short BUT the Goblin line is only one mile longer so the length isn't that big of an issue for me as much as what it's going to be priced at. I'd like to see anyone complaining about it only being half the route set up their own one man dev team and do a route twice the length of this on their own because personally I wouldn't know where to start. I applaud the dev for this route for at least having a go and having a vision to try for doing a full London route concept. But then it seems that no matter who is deving the route it's either too long, too short or it has too many bloody tunnels!

 

The fact that this is all being made by one person is obviously incredible. The length is also not a problem per se considering how many stations there are and how complex the whole thing is.

I just wish he had chosen a complete end-to-end line with similar length instead of regrettably giving us an incomplete run. After all, we’ve still got to pay quite a lot of money for it, so we’ve got to look at the product itself. No matter how good the route is, and what the backstory behind it is… with these relatively compact (sub)urban lines, it really is necessary to have a full-length route. This is like cutting the Bakerloo Line off at Stonebridge Park, ending the Suffragette Line at Barking and not Riverside or leaving the Ryde pier off the Island Line. I wish he had waited until he got the full line done, or chosen a different route that he could finish completely before releasing it.

 

The goblin line is also an end to end route which is the main issue you seem to missing. Regardless of it being short stopping it 2/3rds of the way through isn't going to please a lot of people.

 

Don’t forget a lot of the AP packs require 2837392729 other AP packs to be able to play their scenarios

 

Personallt GOBLIN is one of my favourite routes in the game, love a good stopper

 

I love AP’s work & wouldn’t have played TSC so much without them, but even when owning ~£200 of their content, I don’t think I could play a single one of their scenarios. It’s so egregious it’s comical.

Even throughout all my own complaints with TSW, I can’t deny the timetable mode is almost incomprehensible value. In this instance, 10k+ services in a 24 hour period is insane when you consider it’s a 12 mile route.

That being said it isn’t like TSW hasn’t had some AP like tendencies with layering. There’s more then a few cases of ‘get this to get that to play this’.

 

Thing with TSC is locoswap makes swapping the stock a piece of cake and you can save them for each scenario you want to swap so it's not a massive issue anyway.
I agree the timetable in TSW is one of the best bits but how many times have we seen it overlooked by many of the developers.
Again it's down to 3rd parties to go in and improve the terrible base game.

 

Locoswapping is great yes, hopefully sooner rather than later DTG will give us that within freeroam on the timetable. Even in TSC though you’re hamstrung by having to use the base scenarios, make your own or get them externally. The Timetable in TSW (when utilised correctly) saves you so much time & effort, along with the fact it progresses through the day. Also it’s not like TSC is sunshine & roses without Third Party input.

 

I know the Goblin line is an end to end route so I'm no missing any main issue at all but if you think that you have the ability to go out and do the whole route then go right ahead, I await your route release with relish! As I stated all Devs for this game can't do anything right, ECML wasn't long enough, it ended on the wrong place. Kassel was too long and had too many tunnels. Everybody in these forums moans constantly because routes are either too long, too short, don't end in the right place or as is the case with this one aren't the full route! Everyone was only complaining back in September that WCML south was only half the bloody route because no 390's stop at Milton Keynes. So for a one man dev to have a go at a route ON HIS OWN is something I applaud and I honestly couldn't care less if he is only doing half the route, at least he's got off his arse and is is giving it a go unlike all the other whinging people on here! If you're going to complain that ONE MAN is only going to do half a route when THE GAMES DEVELOPER did the same then get off your arse and go out there and do the full route!

 

I presume when you don't like a song or a particular type of music, by your own logic you release your own record along with a B side?

Stop trying to completely invalidate this fellas opinion, you're completely missing his point. He has every right to have a stance on this as you do. There are times I get frustrated with the community over things, but this time around I completely agree with that and it ridiculous to have a short route cut down even more. Because I don't want to be developer that automatically invalidates my opinion does it?

I respect the developer for his effort and scenary which is commendable as a solo developer... But I disagree with the selection of the route. If your going to do a small end to end line, do it completely.

So anyone who isn't a developer isn't allowed an opinion... Right... Well, potential customers and players do get an opinion I'm afraid.

 

Give your head a wobble.
If the developer wants to create a route that im expected to pay for then I have every right to give an opinion on it just like everyone else.
If he doesn't want to take bad feedback from it then he's in the wrong field isn't he, however he hasn't come here and started attacking people for having an opinion unlike you.
Nobody is slagging him off or denying what it takes to make the route, it's people like you that are quite happy to buy these add ons so how doe that inspire the creators to make anything better if people are still taking their money, it doesn't.
I applaud the effort it takes to make the routes and certainly to bring another emu is a great thing but there's always going to be people disappointed with a route that doesn't finish at the end, especially when it's a fairly shortish route to begin with.
I suggest if you don't like people having an opinion you get yourself off the Internet as it isn't the place for you.

 

Now that he's learned the UE4 ropes, I'd like to invite this guy to move to the US so he can make a short freight line, something that his DTG masters are unwilling or unable to do.

Instead of having to run the gauntlet as he's doing now, we'd probably give him a medal.

 

Sounds pretty good to be honest. Don't really know the area so not bothered about the start/finish but that is an awful lot of stations and AI. Looking forward to the preview streams.

 

Biggest bus service in the game , there will be a lot of trains with around 8-10th depending on the time. Really wonder how many player services there are. I’d assume around 300~?

 

If “muh end point” is the only criticism after 4 pages of forum comments, you just know the route is going to be pretty damn good

 

And how exactly do you know if I'll buy the route or not? You have a time machine or something? It seems that with this community nobody can do anything right and you all have a go at those defending them. I also haven't slagged anyone off if you can actually read! I've stated facts that are available all over these forums and challenged anyone who's complaining about a single man giving deving a route a go doing half a route to try it themselves. You all seem to think it's an easy task to develop a route, completely forgetting the time, research and most of all money that you have to put into that development. This bloke doesn't have a full team or a company the size of Focus behind him either. Yeah we're expected to pay for these routes but if a company like DTG WITH a full Dev team, Focus AND lots of money can give us half a route such as WCML south then maybe, just maybe those winging about ONE MAN doing half a route should give him some slack OR as I've said before get off their arses and go out and do the whole route! I might buy this route, I might not as I'm becoming bored of TSW these days, stale scenarios, games being abandoned broken and the same issues being brought into the new game and four years of having to do the same bloody things over again have made the game boring. New routes don't hold any excitement anymore so I don't bother with them all these days

 

Cool.

 

I honestly couldn't give a monkeys if you buy the route or not.
Yes undertaking the task of making a route and a train is massive , nobody is denying it but nobody forced him into it either, that's his choice and if he's releasing a commercial product then people are going to have an opinion, good or bad or in between, as a developer you need to be ready for that.
I've got no interest in making routes, not got the time nor patience as im too busy doing the job in the real world of driving trains but I appreciate those that do, however that doesn't mean my opinion is irrelevant, I'm giving feedback on the route.
Thats what this thread is for.
I respect you standing up for the dev but nobody is attacking him personally , it's just an opinion on his work.

 

To be fair I don’t think anyone is in disagreement about the potential quality of what’s coming, but I’d argue 2 of the must fundamental aspects of a railway are the start & end points.

No disrespect to any devs, but this pattern of routes getting cut a few miles short of the finish line is becoming a little iffy.

 

Didn’t rivet games do WCMLS? Which is why DTG are already having to remaster it?

 

I suspect that the fact that WCML is getting fixed at all suggests Rivet had less of an influence than we thought.

 

To be fair, during the time I spent living in Ken Olympia about 60% of the services I caught from Stratford terminated at Willesden Jn. Whether TfL had intended on terminating them there or not is another matter I guess...

 

Probably not even in most people’s top 5 fundamentals. For me it’s:

1. Realistic train operation (or as close as we can get). Physics, power output, braking, weight, suspension, etc.
2. Authentic train modeling. I like a well detailed train model (wagons, locos, in the cab, etc). Or again, as close as we can get.
3. Sounds. Great sounds are one of the things that hugely enhance the experience from the old 101 to the expert 101, for example.
4. Geographically accurate railways. True to life signage and close to realistic safety systems and signaling.
5. Close to authentic timetable. Bonus if there’s some realistic layers that can increase variety and make the route busier.

Start and end points are a nice to have but don’t really factor into what I fundamentally look for in a route.

The question I generally want answered is “is this route going to cover 1-5 well for at least 30-40 minutes per service”. If the answer is “yes”, then I’m probably good with it.

 

I accept what is being said about the difficulty of building the route any longer, being a solo developer, but as Clapham junction has already been modeled, would this make building the Clapham branch easier?

 

Subject to quality, I would be happy to buy on day 1 to "encourage" so long as there's a gentleman's agreement (not looking for anything legally enforceable, life happens!) that it'll be finished. Any possibility of that?

 

I love how people are expecting to be respected for not buying the route, which is valid of course, but then proceed to call those who are planning to buy this route 'silly' and 'enabling other devs to slack off' (paraphrased). As if people can not form their own opinions and decisions of what to do with their own money? If someone buys the route or not, that's their decision, and fairly I don't think anyone should have an opinion on what other people buy or don't buy. 4 pages of just arguing about buying or not buying and judging those who take different decisions, now that's what I would call silly. Am I disappointed that the route does not go end to end? Yes. Do I understand why it does not? Also yes. Am I gonna buy the route? I don't know yet, I usually don't like modern content that much so I will have to see what this route turns out to be. Nevertheless, props to the solo dev to give us such detailed scenery and a new train to boot (although I do hope the PIS will get updated before release). It's a testament to the talent of the community, and I can't wait to see more of him (and potentially other new third party devs in the future as well)!

 

Good post.

 

i also want to put a reply here too after a post in another North London line thread.

put it short.
378 is awesome, glad to have it in TSW soon.
Route should've exteneded to Clapham and Richmond for branching path and it doesnt get boring when you're not driving just from point a to point b.
The route should've allowed more time and or to be delayed to allow for the full route to be completed, being that this is a 3rd party developer.
One person making the route is impressive, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse for an incomplete route.

I rest my case.

 

More like DTG having to clean up Rivet's mess due to all the backlash. The route has low reviews so it would make sense to fix the issues on the route to repair some of the damage that has been done

 

So, we can't experience power switch between overhead line equipment (25 kV AC) and third rail shoes (750 V DC) , and we would use 25kV AC OHLE only. What a shame！
Acton Central Station, the point where Mildmay line trains switch power
(Although the developer may make DC/AC mode for 387, but we can use DC mode only in Scenario Planner or Free Roam).

The article mentioned some AI on multiple mainlines, and here are my guess.

1. WCML, bakerloo and Lioness line (Watford DC) AI at Willesden Junction
2. Thameslink and EMT's HST AI at West Hampstead
3. Suffragette line (the Gobin line) AI at Gospel Oak
   
4. WCML, ECML and HS1 AI between Camden Road and Caledonian Road & Barnsbury
5. Windrush line (East London line ) AI at Highbury & Islington
6. Weaver line (Lea Veally lines) AI at Hackney Central

Sadly, we would expect a near empty Stratford station since we don't have enough train
All services calling at Stratford, only London Overground service would appear in game.

Or maybe they can use unbranded Class 701 to represent Class 345 on Elizabeth line and Great Anglia's Class 720, just like DTG use unbranded Class 350 to represent TPE's Class 350 at Glasgow Central



Like DTG's Suffragette line, the major selling point for the upcoming Mildmay line would be high-level scenery, well-modeled Class 378, among with the good sound, hope that Johannes can bring us a short but very high-quality route.

 

I did see a 1972 stock in one of the screenshot at Stratford so I assume the LU traffic will be simulated with that.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I thought due to licensing, the newer LO livery would have to be included (which I think looks a bit strange on the 378), so it is nice to see the older livery has been made instead.

 

I wished that we got both liveries made as that would have been more realistic, as on lines with the class 378 usually have some trains carrying either livery.

 

Honestly more the reason why the route should be extend to Richmond and Clapham is to allow for power changing because not a lot of TSW route does this. The only one that I can remember that does the same thing is Southeastern high speed at ebbsfleet that’s it.

really hope the developer can see the comments and actually take criticism and delay the route and extend the route to Clapham and Richmond. Learn from end to end routes please. There is a reason why those are popular.

 

Fair enough it's a solo developer but not to include Richmond and Clapham Junction is disappointing as its only an extra few miles and it would make the route complete dont think I will be purchasing it

 

IIRC there was (is) a version for BVE/OpenBVE that does just that and is the whole route from Richmond to Stratford.

 

What I like about this you can route hope from and to GOBLIN and WCML/Bakerloo and also use the 378 on Watford DC lines

 

I’m actually pleased with this, 3 of the best routes in the game are short routes, IOW, Suffragette and WSR. Length doesn’t necessarily make a good route.
Also 18 stations is a lot and it is exactly as advertised, the Mildmay Line although not all of it. Perhaps people should be more positive, building London and a new train is a heck of a lot of work for one dev. Maybe it can be extended one day.

 

People said similar about the TS1 version, i mean if it were going to the original plan for North London & Goblin, it would have only been Richmond to Stratford, with Gospel Oak to Barking on that route. (but it's only a short route - but forget that London is very built up, and has railway lines going everywhere from all points of the map too - more that London can be more work in a shorter area than a longer route with mostly fields.

(TS1 - It had me adding the extra bits to Clapham, Dagenham Dock, and Victoria - although the West London Line on that route was mostly in my own time - but equally TS1 is a bit easier to route build than TSW - with TSW there is a lot more involved - so for one developer to do this much in a big built up city is more than people would think - I also worked on the TSW Goblin, so know that too, but equally "adding extras to TSW routes - is a lot harder, it's not something that you can do vs TS1 )

 

I don’t want to be ‘that guy’, but this does need picking up. The Mildmay Line IRL includes the sections to Clapham and Richmond (the Tube Map shows the blue lines going all the way past Willesden!), so this re-creation is definitely not the line ‘in its entirety’.

 

I think we all look for different things in a route. For me it is immersion and having a local service with nearly a third of it cut off is immersion breaking. There wouldn't be a driver change at Willesden junction. That for me is more important than masses of AI traffic or amazing scenery. I was looking forward to this.

It will be a great looking route and I congratulate the developer for their first release and I hope it sells well.

I don't see a problem with giving an opinion but I do see a problem with people being rude towards a developer, or telling others how they should spend their money, I don't think most have though. You will always get a few who go over the top though.

 

Ok thanks, I was confused by the new name “Mildmay” I guess, I’ll amend my post.. Still 18 stations is a lot.

 

Interesting. Yes people are forgetting the extra work building a route through London brings. it’s not like building a route through empty fields. Also like I said 18 stations is a lot to serve and it’s almost like a bus service on rails.
Looks like he’s done an amazing job.

 

Being rude is never the right choice. What these people also don't seem to realize, is that this is all extra content and a bonus. If this new developer hadn't emerged, we wouldn't have this route at all. It's all extra. So if you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

Of course it's not the right choice to be rude but some think they are being the "big person" by being so.

I agree that as with anything if you don't like it don't buy it. But unless DTG say otherwise we can give an opinion. I want to buy it but it is unlikely at the moment.

 

I appreciate all the mergers on ts. You can have quite a lot of fun in and around London.

It took me 30 mins or so to pick up track laying and asset placing on ts. Tsw on the other hand... I must have spent a few hours watching tutorials and still can even get a tile open to make a start. I can see what you mean.

I guess a lot of people don't understand the work that goes into it.