The Tsw Community

Second reveal for December and yet another bunch of forum members moaning about what's being announced.

I can't be the only one getting fed up of constant negativity on every single thread about every single thing.

Day 1. New route by single developer - it's not long enough or it doesn't terminate where it should (in their opinion), cue the moaning about DTG and trends. Let's no forget moaning about the cost of a route that's not even scheduled for release yet.

Day 2. New loco - poor announcement and other murmurs of discontent. Urgh.

15 announcements i believe are scheduled for December and I'd guess it will likely split across at least three regions, so 5 for the UK.
I don't do German stuff, so at least a 1/3rd of it will be of no interest to me, it doesn't mean the announcement is poor of the content is rubbish.

Maybe i'll ask Santa to provide a select few some pills of perspective over the festive period.

It's a game made for a mass audience who like different things.
Don't take a route, loco, era or DLC length as a personal slight, it's just not worth ruining your day over.
Quantity and Quality are two very different things and are not linked to any of the above.

The positive side is more DLCs are being made per year by more sanctioned developers. This is a massive positive for the game and will only help to serve those with specific tastes going forward.

Constructive feedback is what is needed, not the off the cuff whinge fest.

Stay positive people........

 

Well this is a forum for a consumer product so you are going to get a range of views. Don’t worry, DTG have broad shoulders and I don’t think they will go off crying to momma because people voice concerns about the two add ons announced so far. And if people don’t express their views, how else will they learn what customer expectations are? Hopefully as the days go by there will be something for everyone, maybe even a lump of coal for us grinches who want to see steam traction get a reprieve…

 

I don't think there is a bunch of people moaning at all, what I have seen is people sharing opinions which aren't in favour of what has been announced, which are just as valid as those in favour of the announcement, and then these opposing opinions are being seen as complaints or moaning, where in reality what has been announced just is not something they would have wanted.

 

Quite right Matt. Think the in term is “gaslighting” though my internet savvy is not that strong.

So long as the criticism remains constructive I don’t see a problem.

 

Off the cuff whingefest?

I’ve seen about 4 comments saying it’s disappointing (which it would be to someone not interested?) & one comment that had abit of a tone to it, which in turn got piled on.

The irony makes me laugh in these posts, you’re complaining about the environment whilst making a post that only serves to ruffle feathers. It’ll likely be locked in the same fashion as yesterday’s.

 

To be honest I've not seen moaning at all. This isn't a North Korea run forum where only a outpouring of compliments is forthcoming. Criticism is valid, as are the compliments. That's the ebb and flow of life...

All I've seen is people trying to be extremely divisive and shoot down to those who disagree with the reveals...

On the contrary I actually liked today's announcement which is a locomotive add on for SB and AV which are my favourite US routes, so to see the US passenger side of things and those routes in particular get some variety is top notch stuff. And you know because DTG had full access Metrolink rolling stock that it'll be a belta!

 

To be fair some take it a little too far, but I wouldn't say there's too much negativity.

I see a mixture of both.

The only reason there appears to be more negativity, it seems, is because more often than not people will tend to reply to negative posts more. Negative posts get people talking more than positive ones, misery loves company.

Also, this is the internet. Its not all roses, a fool's errand to think otherwise.

 

No, you're not. I've all but given up on this forum.
Negativity and sarcastic comments (although they claim they're only having a bit of fun).
Not a very nice place to be.

 

People have every right not to like what is announced, it is not moaning*.

 

When I have a look on your thread, I ask myself who is moaning

 

No, i do not believe my post is Gaslighting.
Dont think one forum posts can be attributed to 'The psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator' - direct from the Web.

As I said in my original post, if it's constructive then absolutely it's valid.

 

Totally agree... Spot on!

 

Maybe the announcements thread, is the straw that broke the camels back.
To be clear, I've used that as the starter for this thread, but it goes deep into most threads across the forum and is certainly prevalent over the last few months.

As for making a post to ruffle feathers, not my intention at all, I've better things to do.

Objective and reasonable discussion absolutely, I didn't want to hijack other threads, so started this one as a focal point for what I've seen recently.

Happy for people to disagree with my POV, that's life, but I stand by the fact that some posts for me are brain dumping whingfest.

Id say that 'Poor Announcement' as a two word statement post, is neither constructive or helpful for DTG for future content.

 

The poster who I saw make the "poor announcement" comment rarely if ever has anything positive to say so it doesn't surprise me. In fact expect more of the same as the weeks go on. Some posters I just ignore now as I can visualise their comment before I read it!

I did express disappointment with the NLL line announcement, as I was disappointed. I particularly enjoy routes like Goblin with full completable services. It wasn't done in any way to take away from the work which has gone into the route, the screenshots are amongst some of the best I have seen. Maybe sometimes it is best not to say anything.

 

Your post is gaslighting. There was a similar post yesterday that was locked. It's like acting a 2 year old child with a temper tantrum because you can't handle an opinion of others. People will share their views of a product. Just because some may not have a positive reception isn't a bad thing. The whole point of this forum is to give an opinion and those opinions will be positive and negative.

If you or others can't handle that, then you know where the door is

 

Give it a little more time. It will be interesting to see what happens as we get further into these reveals. If the “big reveal” on the 20th is not what people want to see I can guarantee there will be carnage on the forum. It wont be respectful Criticism for the most part. We’ve been through this before.

“Poor Announcement” to me sounds like whinging by the way.

 

Such as everywhere on line these days, you will get a small minority who will always find fault and something to moan about with every release. The vast majority will either be excited for release, wait for more information before coming to decision or decide that a certain announcement isn't for them but accept that others will be looking forward to it and wait for the next announcement.

That's not to say that some constructive feedback is being given, because there is but most of it risks being lost in noise.

 

What noise though? There are players that often gaslight criticism and make it something it ultimately is not like the criticisms of the new London overground route where you had those acting like people were hating the developer when that wasn't even the case. They were just giving their opinions. People think that the Mildmay line looks nice but are not happy about the length of the line and you had some take that criticism of the length and act like there were those that were just hating or being mean to the developer.

The problem I feel is as one player rightly put it, is that there are players like the OP who have a temper tantrum whenever someone has a not so positive thought on a product and act like nobody can have an opinion on a product unless it is positive. It's honestly ridiculous

 

There's nothing to do about people being disappointed or unhappy. I personally don't care much for American stuff and would've rather seen something mainland european today instead of a loco dlc that to me looked like a white slab of metal, to me all american loco's are just a big diesel thing with a not very memorisable name. I thought the british route looked good and I did enjoy Goblin so I thought the same is a good thing. I then heard everyone complaining it's only half the route so I'll probably check a preview stream or a sale to drive it. I mean personally I would be very happy with knowing a second expert german or austrian loco is in development but I know the majority of the players are not interested in that.

A lot of people on the forums feel like they complain about every announced dlc as if it's supposed to cater to all their needs. there is a lot of actual good criticism and discussion here but it usually gets drowned out by all the comments saying the route should be longer, prettier, busier and cheaper. Of course not everyone does that, and I do hope some comments like "please hold the release for a month more and fix stuff" like the whole Fife spectacle or the way Skyhook has revisited MML with constant updates to the community and listening to their problems. I think there are a few occasions people could just think, I'll skip this DLC or if you want the loco only, get it later on a sale. those aren't too rare I would say. Sadly the appreciation threads like about TSG's upcoming route or the one we had for Matt recently are rare and shortlived. and I personally think all these recent threads about if people should be allowed a negative opinion aren't very helpful.

I do however like that whatever thread someone posts. or how outlandish the idea might be, most people here try to add their serious opinion on the matter. how positive or negative that might be. Even with the age old discussion of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" the community does constantly push developers to create the best they can. and however much gets complained about bad stuff. I really enjoy the positivity on the forums when a great DLC releases.

The world of trains is varied, I can't wait until Train Sim World gets near the amount of variation we have in the real world. As trains and railways come in many variations, so do people's opinions. We will always have people hating on DLC or loving stuff not many people enjoy. Lets hope that in the coming 13 more announcements there's something for everyone.

 

The “Constructive Criticism” was certainly a whole different tier when it came to Rivet games route this year. Death threats and calling for the company to be shut down and have ties cut with DTG etc etc. lots of threads being made slating them off too.

Just saying. Not everyone is good hearted here when it comes to giving an opinion. People seem to have forgotten that all of a sudden.

 

You know, comments like this don't really help.

 

[QUOTE="OldVern, post: 937554, member: 22440" maybe even a lump of coal for us grinches who want to see steam traction get a reprieve… [/QUOTE]


How many whiskies have you had?

 

I can understand people being unhappy with stuff like Fife Circle or WCML being released in poor shape. But announcements of another Overground route and an additional loco for already existing routes, why bother if you don't like it? Just skip forward and see what more is coming during reveals. There are worse problems in life than announcement of a DLC that you don't want to buy. Off course the constructive criticism is all good, but there are still members that will moan and just get all negative. Remember the Plastic Pal or whatever he called himself on his multiple accounts? I think that guy was playing TSW as a punishment, so much hate...

 

You've quoted my post that clearly states why my post isn't gaslighting and is certainly not intended to be. None of my responses have been singled out any one person.

I post an opinion and i get...

It's like acting a 2 year old child with a temper tantrum because you can't handle an opinion of others.

Nope thats not gaslighting, that's a hipocrotical sentence.

The whole point of this forum is to give an opinion and those opinions will be positive and negative. If you or others can't handle that, then you know where the door is.

I'll stay if that's okay with you?
As I'm one for being inclusive, please feel free to read the last paragraph you wrote, and take your own advice.

As I wrote previously, objective and reasonable discussion is welcome.

 

I agree with OP.

I'm old and play a lot of different games, and i've said before that this is the most negative gaming community i've come across.

Obviously there are grumps every group, but i've never seen one where there's so much negativity for literally every new announcement or piece of DLC that comes down the pike.

I don't know why it it's this way lol

 

Where in my posts have I had a temper tantrum?

 

And many people in the community are fed up with half long routes that have no logical end points. This is by far not the first case and people are upset and concerned about the future of DLC going forward.

 

I read your post and I disagree. The things that you are complaining about are overblown and just gaslighting. Most people in the London Overground route that had had complaints were due to the length. That's not an invalid complaint to have and you act like those criticisms were just people moaning for the sake of doing so when that wasn't even the case which is gaslighting even if that wasn't your intention

 

I understand that and to a point agree. If DTG, Rivet or JT were producing it, I'd be on the side of 'what's going on'.

This however is a new 3rd party, first route and a one man band to suit. The fact it comes with a new loco is a bonus.
I think with that being the case then a small route to see how it's received makes sense.
Just like the ATS route, all I'd suggest to people is to wait see what the final route is like first. 12 miles or 20 miles of pap, is still just that, and then the additional development time is wasted.

Hopefully it will be a belter and will then push the dev person to extend it to Clapham Junction.
If not lessons can be learnt quickly and put back into the first 12 miles or a small route with a quicker turn around time.

That's my reasoning with it.

 

Yes but to make a post complaining about people critiquing the length of the route comes off as having a temper tantrum because people took issue with the fact that the full 17 mile route wasn’t included even if that was not your intention. It's not an invalid complaint to have about a product that will almost certainly cost $30 that 5 miles of a full 17 mile long route won't be included and to not be pleased by that. It being made by a new developer is irrelevant and certainly doesn't give him a pass from criticism. Players are clearly tired of getting routes that end at illogical end points and it's not like he was forced to make this specific line. People critiquing the length of the route isn't people moaning for the sake of doing so which is what you are acting like has happened

 

Oh yes I wonder if he/she might appear again. I remember when they put a poll up to report DTG to trading standards and then wriggled out of it!

There are many on here of which whom I can't imagine even have TSW installed due to the anger they have towards it.

 

I think people are just disappointed because if you're making 12 miles of a route then it seems a bit odd not include the extra 5 and finish it off so its end to end, being a new developer is always going to be difficult and i think most people appreciate that but for a relatively short route then end to end would make more sense.
Also people feel like once this route has been done then thats it, it wont be touched by anyone else and if its not the full run now then its unlikely to ever be, maybe its possible to include the track laying so the possibility of a thing like the leven branch could be done in the future?

 

I will not say a word, I will not say a word, I WILL NOT SAY A WORD,

All I will say before everyone draws out the pitchforks (again)
The TSW Community: They either are kind, or simply pick fights with anyone for fun. That is all I am saying.

 

I still don't agree with the terminology or the temper tantrum, having got kids, know them all to well, but thanks for coming back with a reply

Unfortunately is seems the rest of my original post has been overlooked and the NLL paragraph has been the focus of the comeback. If it was a full on tantrum none of the positive stuff would have made it in the first post.

As for the NLL, the additional 5 miles is nearly a 50% increase in length. I have no idea how long the first 12 miles took him, but that's a significant past time investment.

 

this is very well put.. i personally love this new daily reveal schedule we've got over the next few weeks, it's giving me something to look forward to right now.

it's so, so obvious not every announcement will appeal to everyone every day.. like today i don't play any US routes (except the freight-only Clinchfield) so today's announcement doesn't interest me at all.. but that doesn't mean it's not a good and interesting announcement, it just means it doesn't really affect me as somebody who doesn't play US routes, and the beauty of it is even though today's announcement isn't for me, there's always tomorrow.. and the next day.. and every week day for the next three weeks, i think that's a really lovely way of doing these announcements and i'm really looking forward to each day, whether it is something i will end up buying/playing or not

i'd always rather the forums be more positive (there are times we need to flag up issues that we'd like to see be addressed of course) but for me the first announcement was a really good one.. people saying it's only 5 miles to add the full route, i wouldn't like to have to accurately build from scratch 5 miles-worth of dense London scenery on top of the 12 miles already created if i was making that route, i'm happy with the announcement as is.

as i said before, if an announcement isn't appealing on one day, there's always the next.. so here's hoping for a nice and enjoyable few weeks of announcements, i'm loving it so far, and can't wait for the big reveal on 20 December (could it be ECML Doncaster to York? that's my hope for the big reveal!) but who knows, it'll be fun to find out as we go along the next few weeks

and for what it's worth i'm really enjoying a new reveal each day, thanks for brightening up my days lately DTG it's a really welcome positive distraction every day, so thank you!

 

The overall oringinal post is basically complaining about people giving an negative opinion on two products. Of course people aren't unhappy that more DLC's are coming but most of your post is just complaining about people giving what is ultimately their opinion on a product and trying to act like people were just doing it for the sake so and acting like it was a off the cuff wingefest when that wasn't the case. It wouldn't suprise me if all the feedback was positive, this thread would not have been made to begin with

 

Ah, another thread that proves my approach is simply the best when it comes to these sort of things, and just not give a flying (BEEP) about anyone else's opinions, the only opinion I care about is my own. Every person will always think their opinion is the only right opinion to have and will most likely be trapped in their own point of view, never seeing beyond the walls of their own making......


And just to clarify, I am not saying everyone's opinion are not valid, they are to that person that has said opinion, I just won't care about it and will always ignore it.......

 

Honestly when they came up with Santa leaving a lump of coal for the bad kids I don't think they ever anticipated it becoming a statement of hope (unless the steam fans are all the bad kids now?)! So I'm glad I'm not the only one who's made that distinction now

Dare to dream as they say

 

You can "ignore" the people with different opinions (because let's be real, that's the main issue) and you'll never see their comments or threads again, I think that's how the function works, I've yet to use it extensively.

 

I am pretty sick of the near constant moaning on this forum in general. We've just gotten WCML North, arguably the greatest route TSW has ever seen, and still the general attitude towards this game is one of negativity.

I don't ever remember a time when the community was this pessimistic. If it's not about the game apparently being broken or unplayable, it's people moaning about it not being the right time period, or not finishing in the right place, or not having enough trains.

I'm not saying the criticism isn't justified or valid- I myself have criticised Cardiff City and Manchester Commuter for it's bizarre choice of end points, however it feels like it completely drowns out all the excitement and joy that comes with a new route or loco being announced.

I genuinely believe TSW is in the best place it's ever been. It's constantly evolving with new game modes and features, not to mention new routes in new countries, yet it seems like the community has never been more sour on the game. The only reason I can think as to why is that it's not the TSW they want. Everyone has their own idea of what the game should be, and what content goes into it. I'm sure some people would object to me even calling it a "game".

These forums certainly don't feel as fun as they used to, which is a shame. I think we all need to take a step back and appreciate what we do have in TSW, how far it's come in the last few years. In TSW2 days there were only about 3 routes I played regularly. These days, it takes me a solid ten minutes just to pick one, there's so many great options.

 

I don't like that it is in a YT shorts format. This isn't a mobile game, so why there was a decision to make videos in mobile format?
Of course, this could be a hint that all this is "trifles" compared to the latest announcement. Then nice move, but I still don't like YT shorts.

 

I must have missed all the negativity surrounding WCMLOS. a route which has been roundly applauded. Or are you confusing it with WCMLS which you have conveniently ignored.

All quite valid criticisms for some people.

Some people don't agree that TSW is constantly improving. I for one think it stopped evolving after steam and freight were largely dumped.

If you want " happy talk " you'll have to look someplace else. Or, as someone suggested, use the ignore feature. The forum has never been the way you seem to want it and, I hope, never will be.
Lively and critical discussion is why I'm here and I suspect I'm like most forum members.

 

A lot of hypocritical posts here.

And now I have an image a mob with pitchforks I my head.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this Peter.

My second paragraph.of the original post:
I can't be the only one getting fed up of constant negativity on every single thread about every single thing.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the announcements were just the end of what has seemed like months of every post have somebody saying 'its not good enough, do it better, make it longer' etc.

For clarity, this is not about being a happy clapper or a DTG fanboy, ive been critical of things in the past.
Constructive, objective criticism is 100% needed to improve the product.
It's the throw away comments with no substance that I personally get fed up of plaguing every single thread. It's like people take the DLC as a personal insult in some places.

Think the highlight was someone calling for Matt to step down from being ED a few months ago.
Calling for someone's head over a game, is a whole new level.

Anyway, that's my opinion and the reason for the thread. Hope that clarifies my original post intent.

 

Amen!

I mean we are all here because generally we enjoy the game but the baggage which comes with it is another matter. Posted in another thread that two of the snow scenarios I tried for the December mastery have already bugged out on me. The stuttering and sound squelching has returned with a vengeance since TSW5. Promises regarding the save game have once again sunk into limbo. But… the marketing machine is on 1400 spin speed at the moment almost as if the whole team is in total denial that so much needs to be fixed up to get the game to a really good place. That’s the main reason for the mild cynicism around these staged “reveals”.

 

How many whiskies have you had? [/QUOTE]
No whisky, but I did have a pint of “Evil Elf*” in ‘Spoons on Monday.

* Then again with Spoons it could be anything, still have a slightly cynical theory that all the twig lines just lead to the Doom Bar or Greene King barrels!!

 

It clarifies my point that you are basically complaining about opinions you don't like. Your original post was pretty clear. Most posts do have valid complaints. There may be the odd person that takes it too far, but there are reasons why someone may not have a positive review on a product or a different opinion. You just don't like hearing them. The London Overground discussion thread criticism was about the route length and nothing more. The announcement of the F59 was disappointing for someone who may not be interested in that particular loco. Yet those criticisms are being overblown into something that it is not and this thread would not have been made if the posts for that route were positive. If you don't like certain posts, just ignore them instead of gaslighting.

The whole point of this forum is for people to have discussions. Those discussions will have positive views and may have negative views. If you can't handle that, then maybe this place isn't the best place to be for you

 

Right back at ya chap on both counts.

Thread would have been made at some point as you yet again missed the point about it being over the last few months, it's just the announcements are what's tipped me to make it now.

Don't need to say anymore on it and would like the thread to not descend into a two way argument. Certainly dont want it locked.

Moving on.....

 

I didn't miss the point. Your original post is clear. You are just complaining about comments you don't like. You can keep making excuses to try to act like it's not but it is pretty clear that is what this thread is about. You pointing out a few random over the line comments in the past doesn't change that. Sure there may be that odd person that may take it too far, but most of the criticism is justified. The criticisms of WCML spring to mind for example and those criticisms are ultimately what led DTG to make improvements. You can't handle the fact that there are those that have a negative opinion on the product.