The Tsw World Cup: Season Three

No. The WCL 37 isn't distinct enough from the TVL one to split them, and I don't see any need to split based on developers. Otherwise I'd end up with JT 101, DTG 101 even though both are identical.

 

This is going to be great! Can't wait....

 

Will you do the seeding the same as in 2023? The BR era group will become a bit 'top heavy' with now having two contenders for the champion, since the release of Preston-Carlisle...

 

Seeding will change slightly for the US and probably for the UK.

As you say, we can probably all call the BR Group without even voting on it so it would be a bit boring to go down that route.

I'll have the Loco WC format finalised over the weekend, so stay tuned.

 

With a week to go, let's talk Format

Every section is different owing to the different number of routes and the different types.

Group Stages

The US' Conference has changed the most.

Unlike 2023 where this was split into Three groups - Passenger, Freight and 'mixed' (freight with Antelope mixed in), this now has two groups - Passenger and Freight.

There's been no new freight since the last TSWWC, but there have been two new Passenger routes, leaving a 7-8 split in favour of passenger routes.

The US Section will also be the only section with three routes progressing per group - maintaining a total of 6 going to the next round.


As for Britain, not much change.
There are now Four groups of Five , and One of Four.

The main difference is the abolition of the BR Blue Group, owing to the highly likely sweeping of the board by Blackpool and WCMLS.

Instead, we'll mix it all in and see how they fare against some of the other routes.

The Scottish routes will no longer be split up, so Fife Circle could go up against Edinburgh-Glasgow or Cathcart Circle Line. Britain takes 10 routes to R2.


In Europe, the same story as Britain.

Again, the non-German routes are no longer split up, as there's now too many (6) to keep them separate.

Europe will also take 10 routes to Round 2.

Third-Places
Like last year, the drama of the third-place race will unfold again!
These can come from Europe or Britain - not the US Section.

There will be Two of these, bringing the total progression to 28 (+4 on last year)

Knockout Stages
In terms of the knockout stages, a simple shootout will be done again. Again, we'll split routes based on where they're from to give every section a chance.

Groups - All Routes - December 15, 16
R2 - 28 - Dec 17
R3 - 14 - Dec 18
R4 - 7* - Dec 19
Final - 3 - Dec 20th

*The #1 voted route in the Group Stages (that still survives) receives a free pass to the final.

Disclaimer: I am going to double check the numbers above in terms of how many routes we have. Any errors will be corrected.

Notes
The following routes are excluded:

• Holiday Express
• Long Island Rail Road
• NEC New York
• Southeastern Highspeed (TSW2)

I'm quite looking forward to this, I must say.

EDIT: Forgot the important bit.
The Group Stages draw will be done on Monday

 

Lets hope it not penalties' Engerland are gubbed.

 

Better judgement - recognising that this week will be dominated again by Season of Reveals, plus the inbound WCML South Update, has prompted me to do the draw earlier.

To maintain interest I'll take a staggered approach.

Today, will be Britain - the latter of which has no draw - Tomorrow will be Europe, and Tuesday will be North America. I've changed the format for the US Section, pending the verdict of the Court of Public Opinion - but it will require a draw.

So, without any delay, let's reveal the groups.

Group A

• Southeastern Highspeed
• West Cornwall Local
• WCML: Preston - Carlisle
• Island Line 2022
• West Somerset Railway

A potentially tasty group with two routes which ultimately should be hoping for the title together. A tough ride for Rivet here as their two routes look set for a relegation scrap (hint, hint...)

Group B

• Midland Mainline
• Birmingham Cross-City
• London Commuter
• Northern Transpennine
• Glossop Line

A rather unremarkable group in my opinion, all routes you'd probably fire in the "quite good, but not great" category, and maybe drive once every now and again. The obvious exception to this is London Commuter, of course.

Group C

• Suffragette Line / GOBLIN
• Great Western Express
• East Coastway
• Isle of Wight
• Spirit of Steam

This group has TSW2020's shining lights (too shiny in ECW's case), as well as a modern beacon of hope in the form of the GOBLIN. One third-party entry here from Rivet, while Spirit of Steam chugs into this group as well.

Group D

• Cathcart Circle Line
• Bakerloo Line
• WCML South
• Peak Forest Railway
• East Coast Mainline

Group D pits the Bakerloo Line against... uh... itself? kind of?... As well as putting West against East. The remastered Cathcart Circle and Peak Forest join the two mainlines.

Group E

• Edinburgh - Glasgow
• Tees Valley Line
• Fife Circle & Leven Lines
• Blackpool Branches

It's an Edinburgh derby between ScotRail Express and Fife Circle, while it's a BR Blue clash between Tees Valley Line and 2023 champion, Blackpool Branches.

Note
I had to re-do the draw as the first time I realised I was doing it for 4 groups rather than 5. This is the second effort, although I balanced the groups a bit because Four of the 'top' routes were all together in Group D and Three were in group A, leaving Groups B, C and E pretty much passes for lesser routes.

The routes were shuffled to offer the best match-ups, in my opinion.

Also, I'm missing a route from Group A and can't figure out what it is, so stay tuned. It's West Somerset.

 

Oh, Group B is the difficult one. I regard both MML and NTP on the same level, though different reasons for each, so don't I know which I'll be going for. The other groups are nice easy choices.

 

This should be fun (so thanks trainsimplayer), but if I were a bookie, I'd have WCMLoS at 10:1 on for the overall win

 

It's London commuter for me in that one.

 

I'm already torn for group A. Until a few weeks ago, SEHS was my number one. And now there's WCML over Shap, which has me doubting . And they're in the same group.....

 

Europa...
It's your turn.

Europe, let me start with a correction - there's only 23 routes here, so Group D will have Four routes. Regardless, I've done the draw and here's how it turned out.

Group A

• München - Augsburg
• Hamburg - Lübeck
• Linke Rheinstrecke
• Köln - Aachen
• Main Spessart Bahn

A clash between the original ICE routes, in Munich and Köln, as well as vintage running on Linke Rheinstrecke up against an elderly TSW2020 route, Main Spessart Bahn.

Group B

• Niddertalbahn
• S-Bahn Vorarlberg
• Kassel - Würzburg
• Salzburg - Rosenheim
• Luzern - Sursee

It's a battle of non-German S-Bahns between Luzern and Vorarlberg, while TSG's relaxing Niddertalbahn takes on the extreme speeds of Kassel-Würzburg. Also, Salzburg. Idk what goes on there.

Group C

• Ruhr Sieg Nord
• Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr
• Rapid Transit
• Bremen - Oldenburg
• Maintalbahn

At 3/5 routes drawn I really hoped this would be a TSW2020 shootout, but alas, we're joined by Bremen - Oldenburg and Maintalbahn. I can't see a clear winner here, even in terms of what I would vote for.

Group D

• Dresden - Riesa
• Kinzigtalbahn (Frankfurt - Fulda)
• Dresden - Chemnitz
• Arosa Linie

This one has to be settled before we even start, right? Also, it's a rematch from last year's Round 2, where eventual finalist Dresden - Riesa defeated it's brother, Dresden - Chemnitz to march on to the 3rd round.

Group E

• Rhein-Ruhr Osten
• Bernina Line
• Semmeringbahn
• LGV Mediteraneé

This is a battle purely of what your taste is, and it's a total mismatch of routes here so pretty hard to actually call. Also, the only group in the entire competition to have no more than one route per country!


Anyways, stay tuned for the (provisional) US Draw tomorrow. That may be changed if the US side of the forum decides it should be, but I think you'll like it.

 

Maintalbahn could be the outsider for an each way bet. Been spending a bit of time on it and the route grows on you, particularly doing the RE services which are less of a bus service than the RB. It also hosts the 218 which is always good for a thrash.

 

It's certainly better than most people make it out to be, really fun to drive from time to time. Personally I think the route was at a disadvantage from the start, because it was released two weeks after Blackpool.

 

Well I know I‘m not stupid- but where can I vote? XD

 

I was thinking the same, in the original post it said in offtopic, I can't find it either though

 

Think if I read it correctly, voting for first round starts on 15th Dec.

 

Just found this from above but OldVern is right it is starting on the 15th.

Groups - All Routes - December 15, 16
R2 - 28 - Dec 17
R3 - 14 - Dec 18
R4 - 7* - Dec 19
Final - 3 - Dec 20th

 

Right! I also read that but when the list of routes was posted it said: „Better judgement - recognising that this week will be dominated again by Season of Reveals, plus the inbound WCML South Update, has prompted me to do the draw earlier.“
That’s why I thought it started earlier; but thanks for the answer!

 

Threads for Group Stage, and Knockout round voting will be posted in this section of the forum when they're live.

 

What about for those of us who don’t have threads?

 

I think OP means a thread in this forum will be created, rather than something on the meta derivative 'threads' app

 

Onto America...
To finalise our group stage, we'll do the US and Canada in it's new format.

Rather than a straight shootout between two groups of 8 (Passenger) and 7 (Freight) with three progressing, we'll have four groups (4,4,4,3) with ONE route per group.

To get to six, we'll have a playoff between every other route purely in terms of votes. It *could* be possible for a 2nd + 3rd progression here but I doubt it, but it could leave 4-2 routes in favour of passenger or freight.

Anyway, here's the groups.

Group A (Passenger)

• MBTA Commuter
• NEC New York - Trenton
• Harlem Line
• NEC Boston - Providence

A shootout between two New York routes, two Boston routes, two NEC Routes, and two commuter routes. A very interesting one here.

Group B

• San Bernardino Line
• Peninsula Corridor
• LIRR Commuter
• Antelope Valley Line

Alexa, play Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. All three west coast routes plus LIRR here. Definitely a mixed bag.

Group 1 (Freight)

• Sherman Hill
• Cane Creek
• Clinchfield RR
• Cajon Pass

A dual appearance from UP, joined by Clinchfield and Cajon Pass. I've wrongfully put Cajon Pass down as Skyhook in my notes. That's all I've got to say about this group.

Group 2

• Sand Patch Grade
• Oakville Subdivision
• Horseshoe Curve

Sand Patch for me, Geoff. Again, wrongly put Horseshoe as a DTG route.

 

Just to enquire, what will the format be when the play actually starts? A separate thread for each group/round or a continuation of this one?

 

A thread will be done for each section of the group stages (UK/EU/NA) and likely the same for the second round (probably split into two) just because there's too much to fit in one poll.

Beyond that, each round should be in one thread.

I'll link all threads needed in here.

 

Any word from the bookies? Who are the favourites?

 

I’m looking forward to this.

I think the UK is likely easy to predict Wouldn’t like to guess Germany of US though. Never thought I’d say it but as someone said above Maintalbahn is in with an outside chance. I didn’t like it at all to start with, but with the 218, I really enjoy it.

 

That would be me! I even developed a fondness for the 642. Just a pity some of the RE runs back in from Miltenburg to Aschaffenburg are buggy, despite being a timetable run they require you to uncouple then run back through the unit you just detached from to a further stop point.

 

I'd say the favourites are among this five:
Last year's finalists: Blackpool, which is a solid route and, of course, won last year's WCML - Southeastern, which is a bit of an 'everything' route and scores high every time, and DRA, which is another 'everything' route and was the most popular German route by far last year. (75% of voters picked Dresden in the groups last year.)
Two shouts from TSW5, though, would be WCML: OS and possibly Frankfurt - Fulda.
WCML: OS because it's a JT route, it's huge and looks good.
FFA because it's a bit like DRA in the sense of having everything to do, although I think it would rely more on it's youth than anything else as I'd put money on DRA over FFA on the basis of linearity.

I will hit you with a dark horse though:
Europe Group C:

• Ruhr Sieg Nord
• Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr
• Rapid Transit
• Bremen - Oldenburg
• Maintalbahn

There's no particularly strong routes in there, Rapid Transit scored 0 votes last year and it's generally just a mismatch of routes. Two of them are guaranteed a place in round 2 and, if they get a generous draw (against Group E or Group B, I'd say) then they could be in with a chance of progressing a fair bit further.
Are they winners? No, definitely not, but they could be interesting to watch.

 

My own preferences are also along these lines. Definitely think DRA is a bit better than FFA. More variety and a bit more complex.

My all time favourite SEHS is under serious threat by WCMLOS

Group C seems to be the most interesting group.
I definitely have a soft spot for Ruhr Sieg Nord, but also like Maintalbahn (underrated) and HRR.

 

that's a difficult one as RSN, BRO and Maintalbahn all offer something great so it's a battle of the preferences. I think if RSN would be reworked it's a clear winner though. HRR is really showing it's age, and RT is RT...

 

All threads are live and ready for the polls to go live tomorrow.

Some information for when that happens:
Voting times (UTC)
UK/EU: 12:00 Sunday - 18:00 Monday
US: 12:00 Sunday - 22:00 Monday

The US Vote will run for a bit longer so to give American users more of a chance to vote on Monday. The UK/EU ones close earlier to give me a chance to get data in place and do the Round 2 draw.

Voting
This is included in all three threads but I'll say it here too:
You will be given Five (UK/EU) or Four (US) votes. It is requested that you vote once per group. If you don't wish to vote for any option, vote for a '.' option. They are there for spacing / clarity when reading, but you can use it as a null vote if you wish.

Threads
EU - https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...-25-group-stage-europe-starts-tomorrow.87769/
UK - https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...25-group-stage-britain-starts-tomorrow.87766/
US - https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...up-stage-united-states-starts-tomorrow.87770/

 

I actually question how well WCCL will do due not only the shocking quality on the release, but also the issues with it that still persist, even after Liam giving it some TLC.

 

I'm assuming we're permitted to vote without owning all the routes.
Surely the majority?
Thanks.

 

It might even finish below West Cornwall, Rapid Transit and Luzern to Sursee!

 

Correct. Anyone with any number of routes can vote for any route they wish.

 

Europe is now live, Britain to follow.

In the cases of the UK and Europe - there will be no (or limited) blank options due to restrictions with the polling feature.

I may have to change the Loco Format for this, too.

Read the poll options carefully when voting.

 

Just a thought, would it be better to hide the results until the end of the phase to prevent any tactical voting? Or does the poll software not permit that?

 

UPDATE:
Britain is now up and running (32mins late, my best Northern impression short of cancelling it)

It does allow me to do that, but I don't think tactical voting is all that big of a factor in this, at least not last year. Most people tend to vote for their preference which is it's best chance of winning. Any chance of a route which people hate being voted down tactically is stopped by those routes generally being unpopular anyway.

I've stopped people from changing their votes so they can't see that their 2nd favourite in a group is losing later on and then switch to that, though.

 

Maybe me but can't see in forum list. Will check back later as off out for a walk now.

 

All voting is up and running, threads linked below! Buckle up folks as we get ready for another thrilling competition.

EU:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw-world-cup-24-25-group-stage-europe-live-now.87769/

UK:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw-world-cup-24-25-group-stage-britain-live-now.87766/

US:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...-25-group-stage-united-states-live-now.87770/

 

Looking at the UK vote counts so far, it concerns me see people are preferring WCML South over others considering the state the routes still in. Not attacking those who voted, but seems odd from me.

 

Of the current group leaders it's got the lowest vote. I think it's probably helped by the fact it's with Bakerloo Line so votes from that will probably go to WCMLS thanks to WCML having the mainline stuff.

 

Two Hours in...


As things stand UK:A is a wipeout for the bottom three routes with SEHS / Preston - Carlisle splitting all the votes between them. Will we see our first clean sweep?

 

Cajon Skyhook? DTG methinks.

 

Routes ordered in terms of their difference compared to 2023, just for anyone interested.

LIRR Commuter the big improvement (on LIRR), while last years' top bunch still need time to get the numbers up.

BCC is the worst off, losing all of its 40 votes, so far.

Good spot

 

Seems like posting a list of results so far only two hours into a 30+ hour poll could have much the same effect. I'd suggest keeping that kind of thing to a minimum, though obviously it's your poll to do as you like.

Big thanks due for the big effort put into this (again), and as with last year, I'll be looking forward to the results helping guide Steam sale purchases. Also very much looking forward to the loco poll, since those are kind of a blind spot for me.

 

Compared to the others in the group, it's still better (IMO marginally better than Cathcart). The gameplay is great and it has great variety in services. So let's hope the remaining big issues are solved quickly.

 

The one I'm surprised to see doing so well is Goblin Line. I mean yes it's a well made route and train, but after half a dozen runs in each direction it deteriorates rapidly into another short distance electric bus service, with a tedious 30 MPH speed limit in the middle.

 

It's still considerably difficult from the amount of missing services still for both the 350 and the 390. Euston and driving up to MKC still feels notoriously empty. It doesn't help DTG didn't include this as part of their update or even future patch updates. If anything, this route needs a whole entire timetable rewrite from the state it's in. New York Trenton all over again.