This was the last straw for me to be honest. TSW is becoming ridiculous! Train Simulator Classic is the one and only... no more doubts.
I actually play TSW more than I do TSC, I think it's possibly due to Timetable mode. If they add random delays and incidents to the Timetable function and turn their attention to a couple of East Anglian routes then my days of playing TSC really are numbered. It does grate with me that routes in TSW are shorter but that's okay when you have a realistic end-to-end service pattern like London to Brighton. I hate the ECML one between Doncaster and Peterborough. Feels like they chose the easiest, least populated section of the route but then ran out of time to take it the extra 20 miles to the best station on the route, York.
Well they were definitely toying with cartoon type sim game within TSW. Seems like they are taking the product and trying to throw everything at it. It will soon not be taken as a serious simulator. Like Spikee said - I'll stick with TSC!
In the immortal words of one of the characters from the 1983 movie, The Thing, "I'm feeling better now, I really want to come back in." (To TSC that is). Shame on me for even thinking of triaging or uninstalling it. What rankles is not so much that they decided to do Thomas, but that the whole thing was ramped up for the big reveal. All manner of core or content features the player base has been asking for and they came up with this. Should have been a side DLC at best, not billed above all the other content featured so far in the reveal. A PR disaster IMHO.
Just watched a trailer video for Trainzsimulator console x box series x, says coming early 2025 ,looks pretty good has 2 US routes Coal Country a fictional route set in mountains of wva pa etc with CSX NS Conrail vibes ,West from Denver DRGW route UP BNSF Amtrak, UK route is Dundee firth bridge and Australia route these are all in PC versions ..but looking fwd to it,the video is on YT trainzsimulator console edition i typed that in and video came up was just released in last day or so.might give tsw some competition.
The cope is strong on the other side of forum. Loads of users showing up once again to defend DTG and talk about how they are a company and need to make money blabla. DTG seem to have a strong following of random people defending their business plan all day long on the internet. Do they all own Focus stocks or what is going on over there?
There are more non-train geeks than train geeks. They see this as light hearted entertainment and an easy way for DTG to make money. They are most likely (the majority not all) casual players just wanting something different. They will part with their money and then move on to the next shiny object. Meanwhile TSC 3rd party is going strong. I see RSSLO has a couple of routes in the works.
Oh, they have had some news today for sure. They added an unknown route in Brandenburg to the route map. Finally they are doing something outside of Bavaria. The touristic mining line they are working also looks interesting. I find it´s a very creative and cool idea.
That's the problem with the TSW forum...posters there confuse their hopes and dreams with reality and get foaming-at-the-mouth furious when DTG does what DTG always does. There is a masochistic Freudian thing going on there where it's almost like they want to be "abused" by DTG because they keep falling into the same pattern over and over again
And that pattern is too obvious. You must take a step back to see it though. It's kind of a toxic relationship, people now even arguing we must support DTG, bring in new players, so we'll benefit later. Dangerous. The problem (for us) is their monopoly, and it has to be said that is indeed an achievement. But they cannot satisfy the market demands (but there's no pressure as there's no competition yet), and the cost of holding back the dev tools for years are paid by the hoping and wanting community. Instead of giving them a Class 50 for example they got a low-output 3rd party making what is basically a reskin of a 47 with new child objects, taking ages to finish - can't imagine that work paying off. MajorWales would have done this on a weekend The whole 3rd party programme is in the state of RailWorks in 2009. People will have to wait for a long time. There's single route developers underestimating the work by at least ten times. Folks, track laying is only the start. And the Public Editor is your enemy. A recruitment tool reducing inhouse training time for the new 3rd parties acquired - something they actively blocked for seven years.
It is all making sense now! TSC = Classical simulation TSW = all types of simulation Serious train geeks should focus on TSC. TSW is being used for Virtual, Tycoon, Cartoon and real world - all things that have an easy platform access. This would suggest that TSW content is NOT being geared to long distance type routes. It is a platform for whatever they can squeeze money out of.
I wouldn't have agreed with you in the TSW2020 days when they seemed to be trying with TSW, but nowadays that's the way it is.
TSC can also be Arcade if it wants. Career scenario scoring can be setup any way the author likes, there's an easy interactive simple HUD etc. It can be both, I think that's its strength. Like the simple / advanced mode steam locos you can toggle while playing. And having recently driven some of the excellent czech freeware locos, there's a lot of fine simulation under the hood. Many of these require reading manuals for proper operating procedures.
I actually feel psychologically run down by the hours of discussions today. Same pattern every time. They keep releasing more and more useless and uninspired stuff, afterwards a bunch of "accounts" show up telling everyone they are ungrateful, out of the order and that the players are the problem and people fighting for days. It´s super toxic and I´m so fed up with it.
Yes it is Tom. But there's a peaceful world of creativity and without elitism here in TSC. And I sense some elitism in some of the new TSW 3rd parties too. "It's always the community talking the game bad" - that's DTG stance already, it is wrong and just ignoring the issues people are reporting which are not tolerable. Almost like the government not seeing what's actually happening in society and blaming them. We just want to run trains and want them to work as they should. Give us these trains and dont break them. I don't need more.
the amount of fanboys Christ... And jesus the amount of cut routes in popular routes like ECML and WCML have been ruined to shreds. As much as how I prefer somewhat over the driving style in TSW over TSC. I would gladly sacrifice that when in TSC, there are TONs of routes that are fully connected everywhere else. Sure the scenery details (i think? I dont pay much attention to it). are not as good (even though TSW also just have flat green textures so doesnt really matter). The fact that I can just go up from London to Scotland, to the west and south etc with some route hopping compared to TSW's popular of doing things on cutting routes. I much like prefer TSC if i want a long journey. At the same time I like TSW if I were to just want a simple drive with the current/latest setting of a route. And as much as how unaffordable I may be every time there is a sale for DLC from steam and 3 parties alike (and some bad bits from here and there). Its the best I think we are gonna get out from as a Train Simulator so far.
Remember that TSC is basically the same. You are plonking down premade assets, grass, foliage, houses onto a 3D map. TSW is no different. And I could give you lots of examples where TSC is actually way MORE detailed than TSW (The Classic Screenshots thread). The biggest difference is we cannot have high resolution terrain textures. But you can work around this if you're clever. (And you can freely move in trains and locos as hungarian devs have shown.) None of the game engines is more detailed per se. It's how much work you put into creating the models you're using. TSC can deal with high poly models same as TSW, some AP cabs are more detailed than anything in TSW.
Oh right i nearly forgot (I have seen yawwie reviews many times haha). What routes in TSC are much more detail than in TSW? I am curious.
I will give you some examples. AP MML London - Bedford AP Wherry Lines Harznetz 2000 Just browse the Classic Screenshots thread to give you inspiration. One of my favourites from mindenjohn's Pogwassek route A french route (GOBLIN sized) Harzbahn impressions
My biggest concern is that DTG is taking the TSW franchise in too many different directions at the same time. They are attempting to cash in on the console platform and may very well dilute the resources that would be needed to make a world class game. In stead they are attempting to create 4 subpar games on one engine.
woah 0-0- thats actually really insanely good looking. ~such a shame that AP's EP on the bedford route isnt applicable on JT's full MML route in part of the bedford to london route~
Why is it of concern to you? If I'm brutally honest, I think we were extremely fortunate that TSC turned out the way it did. It had an ill-fated start with Microsoft dropping what was to be MSTS2 and became TSC. The market is very small, and DTG made it a huge thing with the biggest DLC library ever on Steam. This won't happen again, largely due to the restrictive 3rd party policy in TSW and delaying the public editor for seven years - seven lost years. DTG are needing more players. What some do not understand when they state "Gen 8 consoles are holding the game back" is it's not the full truth. It's the people still using these consoles that do - they are creating the market. Because as long as there is a market for PS4, DTG will and has to serve it for their own good. The game is good if it's making money not if it's perfect or cutting-edge.
If DTG expands too fast with the TSW ‘experiment’ then they may implode. What would happen to TSC? For now we will make hay while the TSC sun shines. I have already stopped investing in TSW as it is developing product I am not interested in.
What would happen with TSC? I don't know, but Steam is obliged to give you access to whatever you have purchased once (unless you violate their T&C). Nothing will factually happen, we're already playing the game without any DTG input or need to connect to DTL. Just play on and enjoy the worldwide content creations. In the unlikely event of Steam failing (imho too big to fail already), the community will make sure the game is playable without it. There's really no need to worry. You'll be able to play TSC as long as you live, I'm leaning out of that window. I mean I can still play any game I ever played in my life. Time for some Stunt Car Racer, Magicland Dizzy or a round of NHL'94 on a Sega emulator. And always time for a Classic Doom WAD (they still make em) I'd also not put too much weight on today's christmas surprise disappointment. Life goes on, DTG are doing what they think is best for them and they have staff for planning the roadmap. Not my business, I saw a lot of disappointed "children" and understand this, but in the end we're all grown-ups and there's more than TSW for railfans to play. If you put all your bets on one number - prepare for disappointments in life . And DTG don't have a problem hosting SimRail discussions on their forums... because these other games do not compete but complete the experience. You can criticise Run8's graphics, but it's a small team that have created a game where only there I actually feel like a real engineer driving a heavy US train, and I can rely on stuff to work as prototypically as possible, not fearing on this engine the DPU or brakes don't work or silly headlights or illegible gauges are distracting me from the job. It just works without fanfare. If a coupler breaks it's my fault, I can learn something about better handling and distribution of forces by setting up my train differently (and repair it). US freight is all about extreme physics.
That much I understand in real life. I am an engineer in a foundry where we pour engine blocks for some of these trains.
Come on guys, don't be snobby about Thomas appearing in TSW! The Island of Sodor exists as a freeware route in TSC. Serious simulation has always been about modelling things that don't exist, or trying out situations that haven't happened. In the world of model railways Hornby is regarded as a serious model maker, yet it produces toy train sets and Thomas and Harry Potter branded models. That's just the way it is, and why not, if people want to buy the products? What matters is that they continue to develop the modelling capabilities of their products, and I haven't seen any sign of DTG stopping doing that with TSW, though alas they seem to have stopped with TSC. Spikee1975 My one concern about the longevity of TSC is if Windows develops to the point TSC can no longer run on current machines. I know they may be Win 10 emulators or whatever, but it might make the experience awkward enough to give up.
Incoming controversial opinion: I actually like the idea of Thomas being added into a train game HOWEVER this is simply because of a difference in perspective as a TSC player. I only play TSC and we essentially have almost anything we could ever want so something made “for fun” for the game like an official Thomas deal would be enjoyable for quite a few as I and some others really like classic TTTE and the classic Island of Sodor has always fascinated me as a very interesting and scenic fictional railway at times. So much so a while back I posted a lengthy suggestion thread on what an IOS batch of content could look like. The IOS world can still be enjoyable for older people but only if done right and if done for TSC then it’s not harming players wanting a proper sim experience since we have so much out there that it’s more than we even know what to do with. Me personally I have to use a spinner wheel I’ve set up just to decide what I run for the day since I have so much. Meanwhile the TSW lot is struggling to get anything that’s even new for their game. From what I have been seeing a whole lot of it is either very lacking or just reused assets on top of the game being rereleased every single year with minimal changes at times. So adding something fun like Thomas for the WSR just turns out to be insult to injury for TSW players. Also from my understanding people in TSW have been wanting more steam for ages and a general improvement to their steam content? When Thomas is provided I think the reaction is self explanatory and understandable.
Don’t think many people actually mind Thomas. It’s the way the DTG hype engine went into overdrive when they could see people were hoping for a big core update or a really special iconic “adult” DLC. Also the fact it’s effectively just a train pack rather than a full package.
I hasten to point out that I backdated the original by goddraug and did some repaints. Most of the work was the original however I did do quite a bit of "fiddling" but I would not have done if the original wasn't there. (If you see what I mean).
I'm not sure what you mean. Technically (not content-wise), TSC is a 2022 game now. A VisualC++ 2022 x64 app. Compatibility of such with OS and hardware is provided through drivers. It couldn't be more future proof than it is now. Any TSW version is more likely to fail at some point due to relying on Denuvo. My old DTG Euro Fishing doesn't work any more. I can still run 25 year old i86 games like DeusEx (DirectX 7) natively on Windows now, so I'm really not sure where that fear comes from, or what the Windows version has to do with it. The exception being Utilities.exe which was not updated but is not needed at all. (Well, making .lan files would surely be nice because any scenario that was not created on the English version will have missing texts for people not playing in the authored language and also can't be edited. That's why Coasty is only using HTML for player messages, these always work. A text contained in the <German> tag will only be displayed for people playing TS in german, whereas <English> is visible for all.)
Are you sure about that? I thought the core had only recently been made up-to-date, but as we know it introduced some bugs and now doesn't seem to be developed any more. Does the older build you recommend have all the modern architecture? The menu system was never updated as the Autodesk utilities/code are no longer available. That seems like a potential future weakness to me.
Yes. The core stability and performance updates were finished with the build I'm using, Nov '23. Which is fairly recently imho. I'm using the penultimate version which was closing Phase 2 of the core rework - before Phase 3 broke the headlights which was only meant to affect the LensFlare rings rendering distance, but revealed that many locos have a wrong light setup. As the menu system is compiled into the game, it has no dependencies and runs by itself. So 75.8a is the same codebase as v77.6b, just without the TSC2024 changes that broke signals, lights and turntables and locked menu fps at 60. It's just one step back. 75.8a https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-simulator-classic-update-15th-november.76152/
Hahaha what I find funny is that the TSW people got 19 reveals for upcoming content and just because of 1 product the TSC crowd is making fun of them. At least the OP and a couple of others. How many announcements did TSC get? Oh thats right none. Your game is dead folks. And thats the biggest joke of them all. He who laughs last laughs the hardest. And the TSW crowd is going to be laughing at you sooner than you think. The biggest joke of all IS TSC. So keep going and make fun at them. Bye bue
Nice one. Maybe compare the TSC library with the TSW one. We don't need christmas surprise reveals here because we got everything and a huge freeware scene that has the same tools and skills as the devs for ages. Just today added a new dutch route and I can travel the whole country with all prototypical stock. Enjoy your glorious Cargo Volume Packs and Mildmay Line, running the ever same routes up and down again with countless bugs on your 800x the same service timetables with stuck trains and derailments. You're obviously hurt. I'm sorry. I love the joke that TSC is because it doesn't treat me like I was stupid. We're making stuff ourselves here. Merry Christmas, and - relax. Enjoy TSW. BTW:
I believe that's because TSC has a much bigger library, with the majority (if not all) of the announced content already included.
I don't think he's here for discussion or explanations. That's just trolling. Obviously he has issues with TSW hence the reaction. If somebody says TSC is LOVE I don't worry because it doesn't change anything. Let them think what they want. Speaks more for a lack of confidence in the game he's trying to defend, which I can understand. TSW makes people angry.
We are free to voice our opinions. I know both games well. I attack the product and the company, but not the person, unlike you for example. Not my fault if there's a general lack of humour over there (except for the likes of Fred, MYG and Gilly). Ask yourself why that is. Again - if you'd be confident with TSW, a so called snide remark wouldn't touch you in the slightest way. The last 24 hours have been great comedy, thanks DTG! All the forums are talking about how a company should be run, if you are allowed to dislike the reveal, the "fanbois" vs "moaners", that route don't work on PS4 (but won't be fixed so unplayable over the holidays), issues all over the place. Noone is actually talking about the game and playing it it seems. That's funny in a way and paints a certain picture. And instead of one Thomas thread, there's dozens. "TSW is rubbish." - "I am rubber you are glue!"
Sorry but how much DLC has been released for TSW in the last 2 years? How much has TSC gotten? Anyway my point is made most of the TSC community are great people but why you want to instigate a war between games is beyond me. If you hate the company so much then stop supporting them. There are other sims out there for you.
Each to their own. I have bought a lot of TSW - I never play it. It is not as thought provoking as TSC. TSW is for more casual play for those who want a quick 1/2 hr of train fun. TSC requires more time to prepare and enjoy the depth of longer, more challenging simulation.
Actions speak louder than words. For me TSC (The Dead Game) is played daily and currently stands at over 9,000 hrs and counting. TSW 13 hrs and last played on the 14th Dec, and that was just to get the free update to TSW5 in the vain hope that maybe in senility I revert to being a child again and I might need it, as my aging brain will not cope with TSC anymore. Couldn't agree more, if I never download another DLC of either Route, Loco, Reskin, Expansion Pack I have more than enough TSC to keep me happy for the next 30 years plus. Nothing at the moment inspires me to fire up TSW5, I even question why I spent what I have on it to date as I have certainly not seen value for money.
A LOT of TSC has been released over the past year. The majority of it is FREE! There is no war. Most of the TSC players have used TSW and are well informed what is available. TSC users can support TSC without buying anything bar the initial product. Yes there is a lot of great DTG content for TSC, however, there is as much available outside of Steam as within Steam.
