Deep Dive Into Possible 3rd Party Projects

I couldn’t disagree

I couldn’t disagree more, The trains in Germany are nearly all red as any visit to YouTube will prove. This makes many of the routes look very similar. I enjoy some German routes but tbh you could superimpose one on the other without noticing much difference.
In addition Germany has no God given right for every UK release to be matched by another German one, personally I’d like to see the “big 3” to be less important and see more routes from other countries appear such as France, Italy, Spain, Eastern Europe etc. Obviously UK routes should continue to feature strongly, after all this is a UK game.

 

They would first require the appropriate licenses and a 3rd party with the expertise. Dtg will mainly focus on the big 3 because they've been doing it a while so they have the knowledge.

 

The last paragraphs confirms your outlook more than mine. It’s nothing to do with getting more routes for just the UK, it’s just a gentle reminder that Germany has no God given right to have their releases equal those from the UK. DTG have been very generous to include Germany and USA in an equal fashion when it comes to releases. I don’t see any German or Russian train simulators doing that? No they stay within their own nations. There is a new sim coming in Train Planet set in Germany too.
Personally I’d like to see more releases from other nations around the world that don’t get covered at all, but whether you like it or not DTG as a UK company have the right to concentrate on more UK releases now there are so many 3rd party developers. It makes economic sense for them and I think I can say that many in the UK community want to see more of the UK covered, where every private railway at the moment has different rolling stock and liveries. Long live variety.

 

Well let’s hope they can try to acquire some licenses from around Europe because I think modern German stuff might be getting a bit repetitive, though I’d like to see more vintage German trains.
It’s also encouraging now that we are getting Austrian, Swiss and actually Japanese as a confirmed add-on. This is more of world which makes the game much more interesting and representative of Train Sim World. I think French, Italian, Spanish and East European players have every bit as much right to see their railways covered in the game. US stuff generally has more variety, though I’d like to see more retro freight.
I’ve reached the point where more recently I’ve cherry picked German routes for contents that actually look and feel different to play, like the amazing Nidd.

 

I don't need to visit YouTube to see German trains. I live in Germany.

I did not say, nor do I believe, it does. Neither does the UK, or any other nation, have that right though.

 

imho. I don't think any country should be pulled ahead as u say. DTG themselves are reliant on the knowledge they have to make routes for certain countries. and then they rely on the licenses they can get and the companies that want to work with them. I mean I'm Dutch, but I don't think I am "very generous" to update the german and austrian timetable of Salzburg - Rosenheim.

Germany is also definetely not only red. apart from the IC(E) stock that's white. you have green flixtrain. blue (and pink) ALEX, Dark blue ÖBB Nightjet wagons. and a plethora of yellow, blue, gray and other colored S bahn, Nachverkehr and other operators including international trains that are also colored differently. and then I haven't even said anything about freight or any driving advertisement werbelok that exist.

But getting back to the balanced release of countries. I think what they are doing now is fine within the constraints they have. slowly more countries are being added and although some more than other. DTG and the third party developers release and keep making routes to support the countries they have (apart from france and canada). because whatever country someone feels like needs more love. it's train sim WORLD. so nobody should be left behind. (as long as they have a railway)

 

About the german trains are just red thing. When you look at Duisburg HBF( a station already in TSW) you can see( just of the top of my head)
DB Red trains
S-Bahn trains ( green and red and white/red diesel)
RRX trains( white/orange/grey)
VIAS trains (blue/white and dark grey/red ex Abellio)
Eurobahn (white/yellow and maybe blue/green/yellow?)
DB Fernverkehr( white/red)
Flixtrain( green)
So yeah. The problem with germany is not it being colourless, it is that DTG cannot get the licences. And even if, a few 70s-90s routes would be fun too. Then we basically just had DB but there were still lots of colours.

 

That's a little too jingoistic for my taste. Remember that TSW was launched with an American freight route and for most of the past 6 or 7 years has had a roughly equal number of routes from its three major markets.

With the apparent demise of steam and freight, that balance is up in the air. But there's no reason for DTG to focus on UK routes just because they're located there. That's an old fashioned view of global business in 2024.

They'll make what sells.

I agree with you that TSW should include more countries than it does, but that again is a business decision for DTG.

 

Can we stay on topic discussing 3rd parties?

If you want DTG to only do UK routes and locos, open your own thread, make your (senseless) point and see how people react to that. Thanks.

 

Sorry for going off topic. About the third parties, I believe I read rumors on the rail sim german forum that the 232 was handed over to simtrack ( source: https://rail-sim.de/forum/thread/34949-tsg-br-232/?pageNo=14 the first post on p. 14), but coudn't find the three people referenced. Does someone know more about this?

 

No, nothing has or will be handed over to SimTrack. No idea where that comes from.

 

Thanks for clarifying that! Looking forwards to the 218!

 

I don't see how that has much to do with anything. It's not an issue of "rights" but simply that DTG have, for many, many years, held Germany in an equal regard as Britain.

Suggesting Germany is lucky to get what they do get ignores pretty much all of TSC's lifespan and everything in TSW up to now.

If you can explain to me how this doesn't serve as "give us more UK stuff", then fair enough:

The four points, to which I have added emphasis, are clearly:
1. There should be more British stuff, so the game isn't one-sided to Germany (it isn't close)
2. "The UK has more variety therefore there is more to see" (implying that Germany is all the same)
3. TSG do do German routes very well! Correct. Now, tell me, how many routes have they made? In fact, how many DLCs have they made, and how long do they take between releases? (Disproving point 1 here..)
4. "Why shouldn't DTG do more UK stuff?" = "Why shouldn't the UK become the dominant nation in the game"

You do realise Britain already is the most common in the entire franchise, right?

Back to this post:

Have they?

I can think of a few reasons why the Russians do that.
As for Germany, the most prominent simulators would be Train Life (it is incredibly generous to call that a simulator) and Train Planet...

...which definitely doesn't compare to TSW. At least, not yet.

The only simulator that even threatens to run TSW close at the moment is SimRail. It covers an untouched market - Poland - and is expanding into Germany and the US over time. At the moment, it's only a couple of Polish routes.

We all do. I'm quite looking forward to Tadami Line, because it's something different, and I enjoy Bernina Line, similarly - but also because of the Alpine scenery.

Again, most of those 3rd Parties are a long way from any completed projects, and a few are community projects.

TSG - the most prominent German 3rd-party - only have two (2) DLCs.

I think this statement takes quite a lot of liberties. They're a company who will budget for what they need to spend in order to make what they need. If they need to get a recording trip abroad - they will do so.

They've done trips to California, the Northeast of America, the WSR, and I'm pretty sure Germany too. There isn't much of a limit in that regard. Pretending it's economically detrimental for them to do foreign routes is a way to make a case, for sure. Just not a good one.

Every community in TSW - German, British, Japanese, French, American (especially Americans), and ones who haven't featured, such as Australians - want to see more of their country's stuff.

Just because Britain has countless operators doesn't mean it deserves anything more.

Personally, I prefer UK and German content. However, because German railways are more unified, I see more variety than I do on most UK routes. It doesn't matter what colour the train is, it matters what the train is.

The ScotRail fleet that's come together will serve - alongside the Southeast of England - as the UK's taste of that, especially on Cathcart Circle.

Cathcart, SEHS, BML and - for British Rail - Blackpool Branches, are the UK's taste of that.
All recent, modern-era, German routes offer that. Long live variety.

 

Wow, this is the first time I’m reading the word jingoistic! You learn something new every day I guess

 

Maik Goltz TSG has a lot of loco projects going on (maybe even more then we know yet). One question from me: Are you interested to create more routes for TSW? Or is your main focus/interest on creating locos only (at least at the moment)?

Was Niddertalbahn a one time only thing or do you have ideas to also dive into the creation of other either similar or not so similar routes?

 

I think Maik doesn't do routes himself in general. NID was a project by Lukas and Ed. Maik did the setup for the DMU. So when it comes to routes, it's maybe something someone does which is then marked as "TSG", but for sure not Maik himself (correct me if I'm wrong).

So I guess in general, more loco DLCs are expected from TSG. But maybe Lukas et al. are already working on another passion project which we won't know about for like 2 more years until it's ready.

 

I changed the first post to reflect the current state of the roadmap.
The highlight:



RailTraction posted this on Facebook with the Sgmmrs waggons.
So as suspected, they're gonna do freight releated stuff. It remains unclear...

• for which route this pack is. Basically every modern german (and austrian?) route fits.
  
• which loco will be delivered (i suspect a BR 185.2. The Class 66 from training centre looks like a placeholder to me)
• If their add on includes more waggon types.

 

Any chance for a BR 266 perhaps?

 

I don't think that they'll do a new loco. They're mostly specialised on rolling stock.

 

I've updated the first post again, reflecting that TSGs BR 218 released and added JustTrains new route teaser:

 

Reppo has been officially added as the newest member of HIS's group on TSW.


I do find this odd but interesting, AFAIK Reppo has never worked with HIS on any of their projects on TSC, but was a contract developer for DTG.

As long as he is the main locomotive modeler and NOT DTM (Cesar Pach) there may be a bit of hope for US content on TSW.

 

I don't care for your condescending last sentence at all. I was merely saying that it doesn't make economic sense for DTG to take very expensive rail trips to Germany and stay long enough to do all the deep research required to make a route when others locally can do it instead. Have you seen the price of hotel accommodation today? The speed of transport has nothing to do with the cost.
UK license agreements have absolutely nothing to do with ease of access to the routes in the UK, that is a strange comment.
I'm not ashamed to say I prefer UK and US routes, partly because of the sheer variety of liveries we see in those two countries (at least before the UK is nationalized again), and partly because Germany gets very heavy coverage already (or soon) in games such as Simrail and Train Planet, not to mention that the producer of Zusi only covers Germany and nowhere else.
I enjoy German routes, especially the older ones, and have purchased many - so it's nothing to do with being anti German which I think you are trying to twist my original comment around to say, but DB routes are now starting to get repetitive and each release looks just like the last in all honesty.
I am a fervent European and to that purpose why can't we ease back on red trains all looking the same driving on scenery that also looks the same, and instead introduce the railways of other nations such as France, Spain, Italy, Eastern Europe and the Low Countries etc.?
I suppose you will say that it's too expensive for DTG to go to France?

 

Well it clearly does make economic sense for them otherwise they would have stopped. I also don't find my previous post to have been condescending considering the post it was in reply to was, quite literally, "why don't DTG just make British stuff" and, most strangely "TSG do German routes very well", they've done ONE, which would effectively reduce Germany to a route every year or so - assuming no other third parties come in.

The idea that Dovetail should drop Germany is ridiculous. Let's get that out of the way.

It is popular. German routes are the most alive of any because DB stock can, fairly easily, layer from one route to the next because they are so widespread. That doesn't happen in Britain, nor America, because of how fractured our networks are. There is the added benefit, in Germany, that foreign stock (Austrian and Swiss) could theoretically layer onto their routes, and vice-versa. That doesn't happen in Britain, excluding the Eurostar.
(I know there's a TGV layer on SEHS but that's four services and not prototypical.)

There isn't a financial arguement otherwise DTG would have stopped - just as they seem to have, more or less, with America (even if they don't admit it.) - Neither, as your last line claims, would this apply to France.

Dovetail don't have free reign in other countries, either. If SNCF deny them a license- France is out. If Trenitalia deny them a license- Italy is mostly out. If DB suddenly denied a license- Germany is gone.

Unlike Britain, there aren't many backup options.

There may be "more variety" in Britain and America (is there really?) but that's their biggest drawback.

You think of Birmingham New Street, Manchester Piccadilly, or London St. Pancras. They're all dead.

What do they have in common, exactly?Multiple Operators with their own rolling stock.

Birmingham is served by LNWR, WMR and Avanti West Coast.
Dovetail don't have a license (that we know of) for LNWR - so rule out any Class 350s.
WMR have a diverse fleet - Turbostars, Aventras, the 323, so forth.
Avanti have Pendolinos, IETs, Voyagers.

Of everything that serves BNS, we have one from WMR, zero from AWC, and LNWR is a dead-end.

Or, perhaps, Manchester.
No TPE, No Avanti (again), and only one Northern train and a rare EMT layer.

What about St. Pancras, that has to be good, surely?
Nope. 395s alone, with an occasional HST from EMT and the TGV twice a day- but even then, it's not exactly alive.

If this was all one operator then things would probably layer around. Apart from the South, and Merseyrail, the entire National Rail network is Overhead Wires or Diesel - like Germany.

Licensing would mean you could have a model for the 801 for ECML, and you could adapt it - no questions about the operator - for the WCML, or GWML.

So, that "variety" - which, in TSW's current form is not properly represented - is the UK's main negative in the game.

The two busy terminals in-game; Glasgow Central (post-380) and London Victoria are both in the areas of the UK where rolling stock intersects.

Scotland is like Germany in having one operator - ScotRail - and the rolling stock all serves the same area - EMUs on electric lines, DMUs elsewhere. Not much hassle.

Victoria has three operators, but they have fairly fulfilling fleets of trains, which is how they are, ultimately, able to fill Victoria up in-game.

--------

So, no.
Dovetail absolutely should not drop Germany.
German stuff isn't "the same" just because the trains have the same colour.

Britain does not deserve special treatment.

 

I'd like to repeat another thread to enlighten people that the german railways is definetely not just DB regio does have the biggest share. there are so many more. freight, passenger. rail infra. and not all are traffic red either.

 

He's credited on B&O Mountain Subdivision for "EMD SD35 Audio and Assistance with Chessie System GP40-2 Revisions". He may also be credited on other HIS stuff. So he's definitely been involved with them.

 

I disagree very much. They're not repetitive. BRO is completely different to Salzburg Rosenheim and that one is completely different to Maintalbahn.
As I already suggested to you - please make your point in your own thread, demanding less German routes and see how the community reacts. Don't derail my thread about 3rd party projects, unless you can contribute in a reasonable fashion.

 

I guess the GP40-2 makes sense, since the original models was part of a loco pack that he worked on.

 

Changed the first post, so it's in line with the latest roadmap

 

Arent you missing the loco DLC by JustTrains?

 

Also the WCML route is coming with a class 87 not an 85.

 

So, new roadmap meant news around third parties. I've updated the first post. Tl; dr:

• Introduction of Incredible Trains as new third party, probably doing the Nll.
• Adding the release date of WCMLoS with BR Cl. 87 by JT (26.11.)
• Adding the Mittenwaldbahn with ÖBB 1020 as new DTG route DLC, release is likely either december or january according to Lukas. Not sure, if the plans maybe changed tho.
• Adding Manchester Airport Commuter as ATS route project (release date unclear).

 

Travel By Train has joined the 3rd party partner program they are known for making US locos mostly diesel locos

 

Thanks, I'll update the thread when I'm back on my pc

 

There's also the dev who is working on NYMR+Esk Valley route. Can't remember his name but he confirmed that he is now an official 3rd party dev. It will be some time before we see that route released though from what I can recall.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/esk-valley-and-nymr.77097/

 

Sorry for quoting such an old post, but I was thinking on that the last couple of days. There were so promising projects pronnounced in the last couple of months, which were cancelled OR - and that is the point - got completely silent, just with comments such like that the creator cannot talk about this any more.

If DTG now claims the most promising releases and leave the other alone (with no tutorials or documentation), the projects will run slower and will be more expensive for the customers. Also, some politics will come up, as discussed with the distribution of UK, US and European routes. I understand this from DTGs business side of view, but on the other hand especially the freeware community and the countless third party releases made TSC so big as it is now. It would be sad if DTG doesn't focus on that anymore.

 

That's a wrong premise. DTG doesn't claim anything. It's the 3rd party devs reaching out to DTG. Not the other way around.

That's true - it will take longer with no proper documentation. But as long as it's Freeware, it won't be more expensive as it's not allowed to sell any user created content. The only way which is allowed is via DTG or as Freeware.

 

Sure, but the biggest things we see will end up in an Add-On with costs. No problem generally for me, because it's a lot of work and the creators should get something out of it. I just hope that the community of creators and third-party developers will grow to the level of TSC.

So there will be no other distribution plattform like e.g. https://www.rsslo.com/ ? Difficult to say how that will impact on the community.

 

Afaik the distribution goes via DTG, so it will also release on console. Of course RSSLO can also sell it via their website, but you'll only get a steam key at the end. Rivet also has their own webshop, Basically selling steam keys.

 

Changed the first post, so there is new Info on Halycon media as well as Tavel by Train as new 3rd party