Enough Is Enough Thomas And Friends Edition

Bothered enough to respond however

 

No, really, not bothered. I doubt there is anything I ever have said you will have agreed with.

 

I don't think CCN will have a detrimental effect as much as WCML South. The only reason people kicked up a stink was just because it was a major flagship UK route as well was one of the most requested at the time. Same can be said for NYT which is also a major US flagship route, but was released in a half-baked state.

 

Yes they did there are 3 or 4 in the suggestions thread from 2022-2023.

Nowhere near a majority but Thomas has been requested a few times on Streams as well. I know on one of Matt's 24 hour streams there was lots of discussion.

It was a couple of years back though.

So its unfair to make the claim no one has requested this.

 

Why cant they cater to both?

I mean like MSFS does.

 

There's no reason they can't, but within reason.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but MSFS has larger resources and staff for multiple projects. DTG seem to focus on a single project at a time and throw resources at it.

If DTG can't improve the AI timetables in multiple add ons as one example, that are in urgent need of an update and haven't got the resources to do that, then they wouldn't be able to jungle both, it seems very much one or the other.

Not against the idea, I just don't believe it's possible with DTGs current resources by the evidence of them not revisiting previous routes for needed updates.

We seem to get drip fed updates over a period of time rather then urgently (I'm not against that policy by the way, just on the subject of resources).

 

As far as I'm aware DTG has several different teams working on different projects already.

For example the team going over bugs is separate from the team doing the Wales route.

I believe right now they have a team doing bugs, a separate team working on each route that has been announced and team that has already been working on Thomas since November.

Not saying it works efficiently currently but they do have 200 employees so they aren't that small.

But yes MSFS has way more resources but also they have been at it since the 80's. Perhaps in the 2050's DTG will catch up.

But to say it should only be developed for the hardcore simmer, then it should have only been released on PC and your narrowing the game down to a niche game.

Where the whole concept was to finally break out of being a niche product and start to make more $$$. By bringing in the whole console market. I can honestly say that true hardcore simmers don't use consoles.

Also I'm a casual simmer so I'm a little heartbroken you would want me to be kicked out of the game.

 

For all those saying 'why all the backlash'

we waited 20 days for this reveal to end all reveals (literally)

could it be the SWML? It's been requested for a very long time and would certainly prove a hit, providing a fitting end to this "advent calendar".*

could it be the entire Metropolitan Line? The community would love it and again, it would be a worthy final announcement.*

could it b- No. A fictional tank engine. If it were in the main body of the event, sure, but as the grand finale which many serious rail enthusiasts are very much looking forward to - it's another massive DTG disappointment.

* - just as examples

 

Yes a hit for some on the forums but there would have been plenty of non UK simmers who also would have been disappointed with that.

 

Those were just examples, have clarified

 

World hunger? War in Ukraine? German government fallen? Grooming gangs scandal? No, we have to get our knickers in a twist over an imaginary shunting engine. Jeez.

 

That would not be my intention at all. Casual players are welcome in my opinion, but what I'm nervous of is the game completely catering to the casual gamer at the detriment of the overall game quality. Casual gamers don't have the same needs, or eye for detail as us more anorak style of sim player. My fear is the anorak type simmer which this game seemed to tick all the boxes for is slowly shifting to become solely appealing to a casual gamer at the detriment to hardcore simmers who strive for detail and an immersive experience.

There's an old London Fire Brigade saying, which was, "You have to fit the watch, the watch doesn't fit around you" (a watch being a relief of firemen not a timekeeping device!) and I think that should be the attitude with simulator games, simulator games cater for the hardcore and not the casual gamer. That's not saying they are not welcome, it's just saying use the tutorials and entry levels of the game that teach you the ropes without the overall game becoming diluted to specifically accommodate the casual gamer types who are novices.

I do not want to game losing its edge, or becoming diluted, and that's the direction I get the impression it's going.

 

You don't mention the source for this information. Just wishful thinking perhaps.

 

No I just watch every roadmap streams where they have said a few times how their teams work.

 

Plus the HIS gameplay pack, which seems to have been in the pipeline forever. All we've seen so far are a couple of 3d renderings. It seems like a long way off.

 

The teams, going by the speed of fixing things and the way some members of the team are over utilised, like Liam, I'd say the team is actually quite small from a development point of view.

The team of 200 you claim is probably made up of licencing, social, media, PR, 3rd party liason and QA testing.

 

Ok lets cut my number down to make up those you mention that is still 60 people and if a team is only 6-10 thats still at least 6 teams working on different projects.

Just Trains only has 10 employees so to think there aren't multiple teams working away at DTG doesn't make sense.

Remember they have doubled in size since 2018. Alot of that has to do with the profits/sucesses from TSW.

Thats why I don't see why people are complaining. If anything the Thomas DLC will bring in new revenue to hire more staff that can be alotted to things like bug fixes, and I highley doubt its taking up that much resourses that it will make a difference to the regular DTG schedule of minor bug fixes every month or so we already have.

Thomas is not the first DLC I have no interest in nor will it be the last.

And how many years have people on these very forums have said to expect nothing but dissapointment form DTG so why think that will change.

There seems to be a bigger outcry to this Thomas DLC than there was for TSW3 being announced as a paid upgrade, or Steam being dropped, or Us frieght being cut back, the blurry textures on almost every new route on console, when the announced the Meissen branch wasn't going to be included or the Holiday express.

There are so many other pressing issues to make people want to quit the game, but a little toy engine seems to be the brussel sprout on the dinner plate.

And that is why I find this whole thing amusing. It exactly what I expected from the reveal...chaos.

 

A single DLC is not a trend toward anything, any more than me drinking a single beer is an ominous sign of impending alcoholism.

No company can survive by only catering to existing customers; you have to bring new ones in. Even though Elden Ring remains hard as nails, many Soulsborne fans lamented its open world and some changes to mechanics that made it more inviting to noobs and "casuals". Result: sales were gigantic, and suddenly Fromsoft has lots more freedom to try new things.

While Thomas doesn't interest me at all, I do hope it's successful enough that DTG likewise can have more freedom. I can pretty much guarantee that deferred bug fixing, for example, is much more likely to happen after a successful DLC than instead of one.

 

Nothing wrong with Thomas & Friends per se; it brings in the young players who will buy more serious future DLC. But at least do it properly and make Sodor, the WSR seems such a half-a$$ed choice, as well as being boring as hell to drive (25 mph).

 

To believe that possible additional revenue from Thomas would lead to better bug fixing the existing DLC is a mistake. That simply won't happen, we know DTG too well for that.

If they realize that money can be made with "children's licenses", the only conclusion DTG can draw is to release even more DLC of this kind. No more, no less.

And by the way:
When did DTG itself release a really good, high-quality and completely new(!) DLC (no rehashed stuff with familiar rolling stock) that was relatively error-free from the start? The only thing that comes to mind is GOBLIN and that was a long time ago. It seems to me that DTG is outsourcing more and more work (for example to RIVET or parts of TSG).

 

I have serious doubts that the Thomas DLC will attract new TSW customers. A person who wants to play only with Thomas and only on one route (not the original) will not enter the expensive franchise TSW.

 

Im not defending DTG. I never said they would only they could. Whether they do or not is a different story.

I also said that DTG do have outstanding bugs in fact that are more pressing than a toy train DLC. That people seem to claim has ruined the game any more than it already is.

Where did I claim DTG made perfect DLC. Please point that out. BTW.

So why you even brought that up is beyond me.

My point was even if this Thomas DLC is unwanted them making it or not is not going to make a difference to what we already know to be how they work.

It wont change a thing. So why start a boycott or claim the game is ruined forever and thong would change if this DLC were never made.

So obviously you misread my post.

 

My brother has since they announced it coming. He grabbed the free pack, WSR and 2 other routes on sale. And he is loving it and picked up a couple more routes. He had no interest in it before.

I doubt it will be much more than an unpopular DLC makes. But over time it will bring other players in.

Just because you and I have no interest doesn't mean others won't.

I don't like Taylor Swift at all. But she is popular. I don't like Hello Kitty, but you put her on something to sell, it sells. I didn't think Trump would get elected a 2nd time but here we are.

Thomas is popular and to think its not then they have over 1 billion reasons a year in mechandise and affiliate sales to argue back with.

And if the franchise is still around those kids that will actually want it or like it, in 7 years down the line when they start gaming will think of TSW.

Alot of players have kids and grandkids. And if you can keep them entertained while you play why not. How much does a Blu Ray cost? It will probably be no more expensive than buying a couple of those.

 

Did I hear someone call tsw a serious simulator or is this future plans.

 

Btw was referring to btw and not to the direct quote from you, it should actually be clear, it was just a general comment from me. But okay, I've made that clear here.

Sometimes I really get the feeling that people are quick to feel offended.

Generally speaking: Different opinions should be respected, no matter which direction they are in.

However, some facts cannot be disputed, such as the poor bug fixing and quality assurance of almost all DLC. It cannot be denied that DTG's focus is not on long-term community satisfaction, but rather on quickly releasing new content that is then just as quickly forgotten.

Basically, it doesn't matter with Thomas, as long as it doesn't hinder other areas of TSW, they should do it.

 

I think the underlying issues with this Thomas DLC, is the whole matter of how they bigged it up to be the announcement to end all other announcements for the series. Like it was truly something earth shatteringly good and would enhance the game no end. I think they call it a "hype train", sadly this "hype train" was received like a rail replacement bus service.

The vast majority of the community were hoping that DTG was going to announce that they planned to roll out a swathe of fixes for the core engine to improve all round playability and reliability.

Train Sim World 5 is the gaming world's version of a Class 180.

 

Sorry but those people were setting themselves up for disappointment. It was clearly going to be a DLC or promotion or new feature.

 

How so? Train Sim World 2: Rush Hour was in essence a massive bug fixing release, so it wasn't out of the realms of possiblity that TSW 5 was going to get the same treatment considering how poorly it performed on all consoles.

 

Not really. Was not unreasonable to expect a new country or perhaps a new core feature such as random events, signaller mode or even multiplayer. But to make Thomas the “Big, Big” reveal was just a crass insult to the expectations of the majority of users who try and see this as a semi serious simulation game. DTG themselves failed to read the room with the build up of anticipation then to cap it all, they staged that ridiculous Fireside Chat.

 

Except it's not cringe. The game is broken in places, still. Im still struggling on Fulda amongst others and yet DTG stick their resources into Childs DLC? If the game was in tip top shape, fine, but when there's so many outstanding issues...

How about they invest that time into sorting optimisation? Ballast shadows? pop in? And many other things? That's why it gets peoples backs up. It takes them long enough as is to fix things.

 

Isn't that what I said though?
New DLC, feature or promotion

 

Yes but all the hype and announvements for Rush Hour was for the routes and increased passenger volume. The bugfixes were bonus.

 

Think you'll find the bug fixes allowed them to do the increase in passenger numbers etc, so was more about the bug fixes than the routes for a lot of people. Even then it didn't work properly for months.

 

I am Still hoping for the SW Trains with the BR Class 450 even if its the first train Company to Nationalised by the Government in May this year.
Maybe the front runner for Train Sim World 6 maybe ?

 

Did " Rush Hour " ever actually come to BML?

On the other hand, the Rush Hour routes were, for me, the last serious attempt by DTG to build a serious simulator. Three decent routes that I still play.

Since then the last couple of years have seen a series of disappointing efforts, mostly of short, uninteresting " bus stop " routes populated with pretty-colored emus that any 4 year old could drive from the get go. No more big diesels you need two hands and a functioning brain to drive, no more US freight nor steam traction. ( and don't tell me they're coming back - no evidence for that I'm afraid.

Add to that the broken promises, smoothed over by slick doses of hyperbole and PR. Well, you get my point.

And now the Thomas thing, which tells me a lot about the philosophy of the current management in Chatham ( or is it actually Paris ). It seems that the age of the arcade game is upon us for the foreseeable future. What was once an active developer is about to become a publisher/distributor of 3rd party gaming, maybe trains, maybe not.

And those who think that the revenue from Thomas will be plowed back into new routes and bug and core fixes for TSW may be wishing on a star. Is there any evidence for such largesse?

 

Honestly I think the Expert DB BR 101 is the best thing to have ever happened to TSW thus far. It's crazy that third-party developers produce higher quality content [not looking at you Skyhook] than DTG themselves. It's funny because DTG calls itself a publisher with the highest content release rate of any games publisher on the market while also claiming "quality over quantity". Those things don't go hand-in-hand together and it shows.

 

I've not got the 101 expert yet. It's one I will get in the future. Dtg have churned out some good dlc over the years but as with tsc, a lot of the good stuff is third party developers. Like the enhancement packs from Ap for tsc. Without dtg though there probably wouldn't be anything like we have now.

 

There are other games where 3rd parties will create better content. They can work at their own pace and do whatever they want. They aren't limited by the higher ups of the main company to create content constantly. The main devs have to create content often to have a steady stream of money

 

We have more gamified features. Not more simulation features. Flight Sims and the upcoming ship simulator are leaning more and more into realism. Better physics, more intensive start up procedures, flight plans, fuel management, weight distribution, and radio communications. We haven’t gotten anything like that in TSW. We lost the ability to cold start. We lost voiced scenarios where your conductor would call out movements, ask for track warrants, and refer to tracks by number and name. We lost accessible engine rooms and the need to prime engines. We never got the ability to properly use distributed power. We never got a system for requesting track warrants, using proper radio procedure and changing channels based on territory, temporary speed restrictions, the ability to break knuckles if applying power too quickly or not managing slack properly (which DP would allow us to do). What did we get? increasingly unrealistic scenarios that a real life engineer would get fired and potentially fined by the FRA or relevant authority for doing irl like racing a burning car for a movie, transporting a prisoner, reversing at speed, etc. Some are just unrealistic like the Cathcart one where you’re supposed to brake to keep your brakes warm but they warm up even while stopped.

I’m not complaining about any of this. I don’t drive freight so a lot of this doesn’t make a difference to me. I find some of the scenarios fun even if they’re wholly unrealistic. But if this is the direction TSW wants to go in, it can’t keep calling itself a simulator. Simulators try to mimic complete realism while dropping the gamified stuff. They’re good enough that you could operate a real vehicle. They’re serious games. Just adding features doesn’t make it more of a sim like you seem to be suggesting. Again, not complaining. But people have a valid argument that Thomas the Tank Engine is a massive departure from making a more realistic train simulator. DTG doesn’t have to call it a train simulator. It can be called Train Game World or Trains for Kids or Trains World. But to look at Asobo’s Flight Simulator or air traffic control sims like Tower 3d or whatever it’s called and TSW and say they’re the same category of games is impossible.

 

MS/Asobo has been working on flight sim since the 80's. Maybe in the 2050's DTG will catch up.

Because the Halo aircraft and Dune Aircraft just add soo much realisim.

See they do the same.

For MSFS 2020 over half the DLC for aircraft has very poor flight physics not realistic at all. Oh and the game took 1 year before it was running stable.

Have you ever been stuck on multiplayer where there is always one person being a fool who ruins your whole experience.

And sorry but the brand new MSFS 2024 is a complete disaster with bugs galore.

All seems to be similar to DTG's practices.

 

Funny you mention it but I impulse-bought XP12 the other day (I used XP9/10/11 years ago), and it’s pretty darn good, with none of the gamey MSFS 2024 stuff to bloat it. If you add Autoortho, X-World, and Global Forests, the ground looks pretty decent too, even without photogrammetry.

 

Just a bad time right now to compare MSFS to TSW because MSFS is in the worst state it has ever been in.

 

True, but to be fair MSFS 2020 wasn’t that great at launch either, it had tons of bugs like 2024, although without the server-gate drama on day 1 (and 2, and 3…)

 

I agree it took about a year before it was stable after it released, longer for consoles.

Thats why I think this is just the new way games are produced they just get it to OK its good enough we can release it on said date and the we can fix the rest later. Almost like it a demo tp start.

Welcome to the internet age in full swing.

It is sad TSW with all the blurry textures on my favourite routes, MSFS not working outside of Career mode and even then its glitchy. I went back to MSFS 2020 and at some point over Xmas the marketplace shut down and all the ground vehicles disappeared.

It was fixed last Friday.

But I'm not going to boycott DTG or MSFS or say I'll never play it again. I'll just wait and hope the game breaking bugs at minimum get fixed in time.

And usually it happens. Then there is a new release and back to square one.

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA I Couldnt Agree More

 

im actually at an utter loss

what makes DTG think they can charge twenty, yes, TWENTY QUID for the thomas dlc?


like, have they lost their marbles or something?

if it was a sodor route. fair enough, that would be fine, but for something so simple, for such a big asking price. its crazy

 

Where is this information coming from?