Good morning! Those interested in steam-era routes may be interested to know that my "backdated" Llandudno to Holyhead route is now available. It features original track layouts of the era, fully signalled. The key locations are of course Llandudno Junction, Bangor and Holyhead which feature loco sheds, carriage sheds and extensive freight facilities. The smaller stations almost all have their own lesser good yards (although for some curious reason Rhosneigr seems to have never has signal box or sidings) and there are numerous private sidings too. Static wagons and coaching stock are provided in locations that will add atmosphere but will not restrict scenario activity, and there is the odd camping coach to be spotted. Scenery asset requirements and the downloads will be found on my web site at https://cubbyhole.co.uk/ I'm not perfect (!) and if you spot any missing scenery items or other issues, you can contact me through the site. Crewe to Llandudno will follow at a later date. Best regards, John
I am reading that you need the discontinued version of the route to use this. Going to be honest: not using the current version, which has now been out for at least a couple of years, is a bad decision from the beginning. It already cuts out people. You need to resolve this before moving on if you want to give everyone the ability to try this. Change all scenery references to the newer version and that will resolve a lot of it. If you need someone to assist with this, I would do that before making anything further on this route. I was able to get the original route but never the extension. I had to rebuy the entire thing unbranded. For everyone to use the route, assets must be from NorthWales01 and NorthWales02 instead of the original folders. Same with SouthWales01 and SouthWales02 on the other one. Scenery swaps on Ts-Tools may work but check it again before putting it up in fixed form.
I managed to swap out the old route for the new route in approx 30 minutes. I agree that making this conversion before publishing is a smart option. There are many people who do not have the time or inclination to do so. Respectfully
Hi folks, I agree, it does cut people out! It is just the way things panned out - the decision to use the old route was there because I started it long ago! Unfortunately changes occur faster than I can work! It has always been a long tern aspiration to convert it to work with the currently available route, it is something I haven't yet investigated. if you folks can speed that bit up for me that would be great. Cyclone and/or Kilt46 - would you be able to share what you have done? You can contact me by PM or through my site to discuss how to transfer it. Or . . . if it can really be done in 30 minutes, can you drop me a line and tell me the best way to do it. Many thanks. John
Check out this link from last week: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/north-wales-coastal-circa-2018.88507/ Let me know if I can help
Thanks, sounds brilliant but it will probably take me thirty days rather than thirty minutes. But best I learn because the other end of the line will need doing too. But first . . . I am going to do a few fixes that the route (as stands) needs. And anybody using the route already (in either form) may have spotted there are indeed some scenery assets missing, which didn't really come as a surprise to me, because I'm no expert. These are listed on the download page as "added 19/1/25" so you may wish to seek them out. Best regards, John
If he swapped it all out, maybe he can send you a new copy to review and publish if all is well. Just give him a mention in the credits. Just give him your working copy, take a day or two off, and he can send it back. If he's willing. Then uninstall the branded version (back up the mods in the install folders, the archive files should be all that goes away anyway) and work on it without that in place so you know it isn't sneaking back in there. You can also move the folders to another directory without uninstalling, though Steam would replace them if you verify files. See https://steamdb.info/depot/621928/ and https://steamdb.info/depot/896717/ for files to relocate if you do the latter option without uninstalling directly. Manuals can stay. That leaves four files (basically four folders). And as for my earlier swap suggestion: NWC-CreweCaergyb replaces NWC-CreweHolyhead and NorthWalesCoast. SouthWales01 represents BristolCardiff and SouthWales02 replaces CardiffSwansea. I know the Ghost livery is missing from the NWC extension in the event anyone converts any custom scenarios (new copies come with the new version); just put the other one there. (Thanks Danny for correcting a folder mistake here.)
SouthWales01 and 02 is correct but the NWC one isn't NorthWalesCoast and NWC-CreweHolyhead (Arriva Branded) are both under NWC-CreweCaergybi (TFW branded), not under Northwales 01 and 02.
My mistake. I should and would have checked the depot properly but was in a hurry, I thought I had seen NorthWales before. I will edit that with the depot info.
Folks - really grateful for all your input but I am starting to get a bit dizzy with the mention of "branded" and "unbranded". I hope there isn't yet another version I don't have! I have three: North Wales Coastal (00000077-0000-0000-0000-000000002017) which was Crewe to Llandudno North Wales Coastal Crewe to Holyhead (00000086-0000-0000-0000-000000002018) (which was the extension of (1) above to Holyhead North Wales Coastal (TfW) (00000086-a000-0000-0000-000000002022) which I understand is the current version, and the only one now available. Is that correct? I purchased (1) & (2) and when they were withdrawn from sale was given (3) for free. So my modified route was created with (2), as (3) did not exist when I started. I need to take out all references to (1) & (2), and route them to (3). Hopefully the identification names haven't changed. Serzmaster sounds interesting, I've never been near it. It could be my saviour. I think for testing purposes I can disable the older routes by just changing the route's code, I usually just put an X on the front, e.g. X00000077-0000-0000-0000-000000002017 . Ultimately I will probably permanently remove the older ones as I will have no need for them. I have some non-TS things ahead of me this week (yes, real life exists!), so I shall not be starting this task immediately. I need a clear mind and a good space in my day to start this. I do not work well under stress. And if this is successful, I will need to do the same with my Crewe to Llandudno 1960 (which is nearly ready), which is based on (1). They will remain two separate routes, but please don't start pressing me about merging them as I might run off into a corner and cry. Personally I don't see it as a big deal as almost all through trains conveniently stopped at Llandudno Junction so its a good point to break scenarios anyway, and rolling starts work nicely for the few that don't. Its probably pushing luck to run a through scenario with correct levels of AI services (the Summer Saturday services of the day were mind-boggling) on memory-usage grounds anyway. Maybe we can look at a "merge" one day but not at the moment please. And that's a very definite "maybe". Best to all . . . John
Not going to,press you at all. I have so much to look at anyway. You do understand correctly that #3 is the current and only available route. That said, the original branded is found in 2018 keys, but it is better to base on the current one.
Thanks, Cyclone. I'm not sure I understand your last line, but I don't need to. You have given me the answer I was looking for. Ta muchly. J
In my case i did say "Arriva Branded" (which is 1 and 2) and "TFW Branded" (which is 3), i mean there really isn't an unbranded version like the south wales (Cardiff) routes.
John i am a bit perplexed with all this talk of merging. The route i downloaded from your site, already has the Crewe - Llandudno Junc section, included. All be it in it's modern incarnation. So if i am correct, merging of this section is not required, only back dating to the earlier period. Obviously if you wish to and have the time.
Ah, but that would require me to start again from scratch. That route is as good as finished and I will turn my attention to making it available when I have squared up the west end. John
The original North Wales Route was split in to two. Crewe to Llandudno and Llandudno Jn to Holyhead As John said he has Backdated the Llandudno Jn to Holyhead route to the 1960s on he page it says "Before you go any further, it is important to know that this route will not work if you do not have the now discontinued North West Coastal Route Extension route by Dovetail Games, which in turn required the original North West Coastal route" If you don't own both those routes then it is a very big task to use the current Crewe to Holyhead route.
Yup i have all the necessaries thanks. What i do not understand is. I have the full route showing in the editor. Consisting of Crewe to Holyhead, under John's route folder. Both parts of the original ATW release, are disabled in the route folder. As i only need the Assets from both as a requirement. The route i am using which John released is 1960's era from Llandudno Junc to Holyhead. But the section from Crewe to Llandudno Junc is still modern era. yet they are all part of the same route. Anyway it is not my route or project, i would not dream of telling someone what they should or should not do.
Dovetail have done their best to confuse us! Its really hard to explain. Its probably best for your health to not to worry about it . . . John
He probably just has not made it to the other half yet. Even so it would be better with the current route so others can play it. I will not rush him.
The other half is as good as finished, but it is based on a different version of the original route. Sigh . . . John
Yeah, right, convince me. I've spent 8 hours on this so far. There are many traps for the unwary, I take it you are not unwary. Does yours look like this? 1. 99% of my pointwork did not render correctly. I eventually tracked that issue down to a different path for the track rule in the routes concerned. They now render correctly. 2. That view is Concrete Sleepers (track01_conc), obviously I want Wooden Sleepers for 1960 and have used track02_wood which is supposed to be shiny, but: Notice also it is displaying two types of sleeper, compare with below. Curious or what. 3. Worst of all, neither of those tracks are producing the clickedy-clack of rail joints (only at points and crossings) I don't consider any of this is good enough as a replacement for what I had before . . . which looked and sounded very nice thank you. There were issues of other tracks being invisible, rusty sidings and tunnel track, but that's not a big deal. . . . and if you don't change entries in RouteProrperties.xml a lot of files are still being looked for in their old locations, which you don't realise until you disable the assets of the other routes. So quite frankly, unless anybody is going to offer some genuine help rather than just telling me it is so easy to do, changing my route to work with the current "NWC-CreweCaergybi" is not an option. I'm not prepared to sacrifice realism. I'm sorry if this sounds grumpy, which I am sure it does. John
John it is your route to do with as you like. We are only grateful recipients. I have no way of acquiring the old route and so am left with no other option but to use what I have available. I am not a connoisseur of rail looks and sounds. It is your IP to do as you like. Respectfully
...and it wouldn't hurt a few in here to actually learn how to do something other than just moan that nobody's done it for them.
Alas, I don't have those, and it would restrict users too. I might look at the Woodhead track, I got that working in another of my routes with a bit of help along the way. Woodhead is already a requirement of the route. John
Some progress this morning, with Beattock track (a derivative of Woodhead) I took a little DMU drive and am pleased to say the familiar ker-plonk, ker-plonk of rail joints was there. I find it so much easier to change gear properly when I can count the joints! Quite a few tweaks to do yet, but I think we might be on the home straight now. John
I think technically it wouldn't - it replaces the track already placed in routes (so if you use a default track type it would work regardless)
Hello John, I have converted the route to use Caergy Bi as I don't have the NWC extension. The missing rail joint sound is from track01_wood_jointed which is not part of NWC. Some other route must have added it to the folder. I dont have that either. I can post the converted files if you want them. The jointed track would need copying to the Caergy Bi folder and its path changing in the .bin. I can do it if you like.
Thanks all, all comments and thoughts appreciated. Especially kind of you to offer help Paul, but I think I am sorted on the rails sounds. Yes, you are right, track_wood_jointed is not in the Caergybi version and I assumed track_wood_clean was a new name for it, but clearly that is intended to be long-welded. I could have changed the rail-joints but that might annoy people using the route as it was designed to be. Just a few tweaks and some checking and thorough testing (good excuse to sit back and enjoy a few rides!) and I will be releasing the new version which will not require anything at all from the old routes. Best regards to all, John
You are absolutely right, Paul, the "North Wales Coast - BR Blue Period" at https://www.wotawallysbits.net/nwc.html installs many extra rail types and that is where this one came from. I'm working closely with Andy Freeman, one of the authors of this route, and have his permission to use these but they were devised by his development partner Nick Hudson, who sadly died of coronavirus when it was at its height. I've tried everything I can to make them work with the current NWC-CreweCaergybi route but I think something must be hardcoded into the Xsec files which I can't decompile. I'm still making enquiries about this, but I have the route working just fine with a derivative of the Woodhead track and I think with a little more testing I will be able to release it in about a weeks time. When the dust has settled from that, I will look at doing the same conversion to Crewe to Llandudno and then release that one too. That end is actually far more interesting, with large quantities of quadruple track. Best regards, John
I was not aware that is what claimed Nick. I have had it twice but was able to get vaccinated beforehand (sick on September 2022 and holidays 2023 into 2024).. I will probably get it again because my sister is a teacher and, as you do not know you have it until you have passed it to others, it is a matter of time before I face it again.
Good morning! Version 2 of the route is now available, it has been converted so as to no longer require the discontinued routes from Dovetail, instead using the currently available Crewe to Holyhead route as its base. There are also many other improvements to the route, many of which will be barely noticeable until you look closely. The backdating of Conway and Valley stations is complete, including period signage which will eventually be adopted throughout the route. Some of the stations are quite difficult to adjust, owing to the entire station and often nearby buildings and bridges having been built as one object, so in the case of Conway I have had to disguise the unwanted with older buildings, posters and general clutter. On the other hand, I removed the station from Valley and built afresh using library objects. I know already that Holyhead is a nightmare, with all sorts of modern things that we will have to turn a blind eye to. Download from my web site, link in my signature lines below. As long as you have already downloaded the extra downloads added to the list last month, there should (hopefully) be no further extras required. Unless anything critical arises (and please do let me know) I'm going to take a break from this for now. I want to move on to completing the conversion of the Crewe to Llandudno route that is in the offing, this is turning out to be a rather more complicated exercise! And its probably time also to step back altogether and play with some of the other "train sets" from the steam era that are made by others to amuse me. Enjoy! John
If anybody is experiencing invisible track in places under the player train or AI trains, please drop me a PM. I have what I think is the solution, but I could do with some tests being done to prove that. I can provide a single updated file to test with. John
Good job doing this. The route is now able to be enjoyed by the entire community, not a select few. I don't generally run steamers, so I will hold out for a new PC and possibly an incentive to buy trains that might appear in any scenarios. I don't know if the 35, 42, and 52 ever ran up there? I do see the Black 5 did run the line in at least 1965 as I have found photos of this. Stanier 2-6-0 and Royal Scot are also found. Just trying to figure out what kind of rolling stock is common here. EDIT: Turns out a lot of the stock I am finding pictures of, we already have. Does anyone have timetables from the 60s? I presume this is the era represented, before Beeching. https://6gshed.co.uk/mainline.htm
Thanks for the kind words. I think it unlikely those diesel classes you refer to appeared on the line - in the early 1960s English Electric Class 40s would have appeared, added to later by Brush Class 47s. Steam-wise, the Black 5 ruled the roost but other types were present with Britannias and Patriots in addition to those you mention. Working Timetables are available as PDFs at https://timetableworld.com/wtt-lmr/ - they aren't free but are hardly expensive. I have the Summer 1962 pair (freight and passenger) from there and they make fascinating reading. Summer passenger services west from Chester were intense although a large proportion went to Llandudno, missing this section of the line. John
I don't have the new Crewe - Holyhead and it is Half Price at £12.49 TSC 2024 is £7.49 and that includes Crewe - Holyhead
Version 2.1 of the route has been released today, this includes numerous small updates to the scenery including: More period station signage at backdated stations Period-style signal box nameboards at all signal boxes All open level crossings now backdated to be gated Elimination of the need for "Beattock" assets for the AWS magnets By request, I have also made my scenarios for the route available. These are unlikely to work "out of the box" as they use many items of rolling stock you may not own, but feel welcome to edit them to your needs. All of the above are available from my web site, link below. Best regards, John
Hi John It seems I cannot download anything from your website. I have used Firefox and Opera, and I get Download is not allowed for this file type on anything except the Scenario Files
