I have a number of AP DLC and they keep introducing new "Features", AI Horns, Bugs on Windows and Gradient changes to Tractive Effort to name 3. But they don't give you an option if you wish that Feature installed with the latest version of the DLC. I don't update my DLC as I don't want some of the features. And it would be good if some of the features could be removed. It seems to be a case of Like it or Lump it.
You can change certain options using the headcode. Also change things like clag, horn type etc... its all in the manuals.
If you had read my post you would see that is not what I'm talking about. I have a number of AP Products - like both packs of the Class 37. In 2024 there was a Tread Brake Simulation change, Changes to make the FPS improve "in some instances", Gradient Correction Physics and lastly AI Horns. I'm not interested is some of these but I don't have a Choice if I update my DLC - it is either All or Nothing AP don't give you a choice on which upgrades to install
I very much agree with you Peter. A while ago I bought some enhancement packs ( sky, weather, vegetation etc from AP and am quite reluctant to install them. How do I uninstall them if I don't like the effects ? How do I install on just one route to see if I like it. ? I know some would say just make a backup first, but AP tend to install files all over the place, so its not that easy to keep track ( no pun intended) of exactly what's been installed.
Isn't the answer to keep a copy of the older version's installer and then run that to overwrite the newer version that you don't want? I think AP are happy to supply older versions on request if you've not kept them.
I imagine they don't give the option because why exactly wouldn't you want these new features? Do you not want more realistic braking physics, gradient physics or the ability for AI to sound their horn? I think AP give the option to switch to the default disc brake physics anyway if you really take issue with realistic tread brake performance. It would also require supporting multiple versions of the same product which brings increased support headaches for what I can imagine would be a very small number of people who would want to remove features. Features that increase realism with no downside as far as I can tell?
I am talking about initially installing the AP products, never mind upgrades to what you have already installed. !
People have reported on FB Train Sim pages about the inability of trains to reach the Max speed where it had done so in the past. HST with 2+7 not being able to reach 125 - maxing out at around 115. Class 37s struggling to pull the same trains as before. If the time taken for a train to travel between timing locations would not that break some scenarios? AP "we have come up with a new feature which we will give to people whether they want it or not." Nothing wrong with the Braking Physics or AI Horns but I don't wish to change the performance of the DLC based on what AP thinks is better for us.. I had to install a new piece of Software a few months ago for editing my Photographs and it gave me OPTIONS as to which features it would install.
In that case wouldn't installing the product to a dummy installation of TSC show what files are added or changed so you'd know what to back up?
To be fair that's probably the only way to do it. At lease that way you can see exactly what's being installed and where.
There was a follow-up tweak to the gradient stuff which by all accounts, seemed to get rid of those complaints. As someone else suggested, it seems quite simple then if you're funny about updates, just keep a backup of packs and don't download a new version. What were the options that photography editing software gave you out of interest?
If you don’t like the asset you can swap out for the original asset? If the AP product is an enhancement you should still have access to the original asset and swap it back?
The AP Class 37 Pack, the 319 Pack the 411 Pack and other are Stand Alone - If I remove them I lose them I will look in to the Gradient update and see if it was tweaked. The Software gave me the option as to which File Types it used and if it wasted to be the default program for certain types.
I tested the updated gradient physics and noted that they had been improved: Ap Mtu Hst Pack Released | Page 2 | Dovetail Games Forums Not perfect (yet) but better than a pointless wait for the core to be amended to model the effect of all gradients on the train physics.
I think you misunderstood. The AP physics change was to compensate for the core treating gradients of +/- circa 1 in 200 as level thereby making the simulation less realistic than it could have been. I was not suggesting that a core update was required as a result of the change that AP made.
It was the fact that AP decided to change it without giving people the option if they wished to install it or not. AP - The latest update to Train X includes Tweaks A, B & C Customer - What If I don't Want All? AP - Tough.
As far as I am aware there is no DLC provider for TSC that allows the option of which bit of it to install, Steam / vR / PLD / SSS / RSSLO etc etc so AP are certainly not alone in this area. You either:- install their product and enjoy it install their product and tweak it don't install their product. As a last resort you could always extract the latest update to a temp folder, compare files and amend accordingly. Personally I run the latest updates on the entire AP catalogue and am loving it. AP are not going to change their whole installer process and their regular free updates, which the majority of us AP users welcome and enjoy, just because a miniscule minority of user doesn't want flies on his screen or have to deal with wheel slip or accurate traction on gradients or Ai horns. IMHO AP are one of the few DLC providers that provide free updates speedily to correct the smallest of detail to keep their customer base happy, the latest MML update to correct a missing ground signal and aesthetically change a signal gantry for me says it all. Just a pity a lot of other 3rd party DLC providers do not offer the same level of service. Long may they continue.
While I get what you are saying here, Peter, I should kind of throw out that Steam DLC don't give you this option, either. If something is updated, you get the update and you would have to go to the trouble to download older versions. AP's difference is that they don't retain older versions and don't want you using older versions. Example: scenarios. They update scenarios to use the new 378. Don't want to buy it yet? Too bad. You are either going to get the new 378 or you will not see any 378 in scenarios. Want the version with the old 378? Better have your archive of old installers handy to dummy install to the desktop (I have a 2022 set) and then extract all of the scenarios while deleting everything else. We won't discuss replacing the 170 with an ATS product, that's even worse. HAA and other wagon pack scenarios are another one. They get rid of them completely and don't choose to update stock saying they are "too old". People still want to play them. I published videos of the HAA ones myself. All that aside, if they want to add features to a train, I welcome that. My problem is how they handle scenarios. Clearly.
Exactly that. "As a small business I need to market my latest product to the nth degree. I need to sell as many of my latest product to allow me to continue as a business." I totally get that. For those on a limited budget LocoSwap is the answer, simply amend your scenarios to use your backdated stock, although personally I love playing with a new release so I am a sucker for a new bit of kit. Compared to buying an HO Scale Loco for a model railway this is way way cheaper, and you get to sit in the cab and actually drive them. Happy Days.
But they did, Upgrade or not upgrade, Simples (Install optional emoji as applicable) You always have the option to retain the old AP folders as a copy and keep your installation up to date to suit your requirements.
You can understand why this could be an issue, though. I have the old installers, and I have the old scenarios. I can use those as needed. However, let's say that a catastrophic event occurs tomorrow. My PC crashes. Meanwhile, my external 5 TB drive for some reason decides to no longer function. My main drive is gone, and my backups are all gone. What then? The AP attitude seems to be that you must buy the new package to play those scenarios again. What kind of message does that send to a customer? The thought that you quote from the AP end is also something that can work against them. A new customer sees that they have to have 15 different trains to run the scenarios. They would buy that one package if there was more convenient starter scenarios like packages on Steam, even the 313 and 315 that are on Steam from AP (albeit stripped down). There is no indication in any of the DLC pages which trains are important to the running of the scenario and which can be left out (eye candy). Because he wants you to buy everything for a thousand British pounds at once. This is not a good business model. You are more likely to get zero from some of these customers. Give them some introductory scenarios, then add others with extra stock for those wanting more. That, to me, is similar to the JT approach and is better. Me, personally: I started by looking at UKTS downloads and figuring out what was most needed for those. Ironically, I still haven't played many of those. But that is how my collection started, and then I got others to be able to play the included scenarios as money came in again.
No need to buy anything again - just go into your AP account and re-download your lost installers. Or am I missing your point?
You cannot because having bought, say the Class 37 pack, if you download it you get the latest version - not the one you purchased.
Ok. How do I do that? I have the AP Class 37, both packs, If I download the latest version that is what I would end up with. Most of these tweaks are, AFAIK, changes to the Simulation file. I don't know how I could pick the parts I want of the new version, AI Horns, to apply to the old.
The Wheel Slip feature has been around for some time based on the weather. And how correct is the "accurate traction on gradients"?
More correct than either you or me can code it. I just go with the flow. Sadly this is what it is. There are lots of things could be done better in both TSC and TSW. One just has to take a deep breath and accept what is - is
Again, why would you not want the update? It just seems to be a very bizarre and esoteric position to take so it's no wonder AP don't cater for it.
As I have said in other posts - I don't want the Performance Tweak. Various other uses say the update makes the trains to take longer to accelerate and not reach maximum speed.
I think your concerns would be best made with AP direct. If the products are faulty, the more people that tell them the better. Unless you were just looking for an outlet to vent frustration.
Pre Update yes you are correct. Post update they accelerate and get to max speed as close to reality as can be obtained. Also consider if you have not installed the required Wheel slip / Traction updates that will have an effect on how your loco traction will apply.
Peter answered for me. I am discussing older installers with older copies of scenarios that nowadays have different products in them.
A lot of the AP Traction I own already has the Wheelslip feature if the Weather Condition dictates it.
I have no idea if they'd agree to it, but perhaps it could be worth a shot to send an email to AP support asking for installers for a specific version rather than the latest one. Although I have to agree with others, the performance updates really aren't anything to stop updating your AP library over.
I love the AI horn idea. Just my opinion. I doubt AP will send old installers. I asked about older scenario copies and they refused. They do not retain older stuff. I want to see the original versions of scenarios, but constantly updating stock loses any view on what DLC came out when as it is alll intermingled.
I have never known a developer when they release an update to give you the option of what part of the update you want. I play lots of games not just TSC and also Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. There have been lots of updates for this and you just download and install the complete update both in scenery and aircraft where you download and install the whole product again. I would think that it would be quite a bit of extra work for a developer to make an update divided into different sections so that you could pick what part of the update you wanted. Just Trains when they release an update for routes or stock you have to download the whole product again from your account. I'm just saying this with over 40 years of gaming experience and not referring to anyone. Also, another thing that you have to remember is that some of these developers are only run by 1 or 2 people. Some things that they make whether routes for TSC of planes for a flight simulator can take 2 or 3 years to make.
I love the AP 37 packs but I hate the bug on screen feature, really wish it could be disabling like certain other features can be such as tap changer mode, clag factor & traction motor hum.
Some other people will have a go at you for disliking AP Features - the window bug is a bug for me too
Can´t really see how it would practically work to give the user a choice of features. A TSC loco is essentially one file (except for the graphics) and that would mean that that either several alternative files had to distributed or we would need an installer that "built" a file depending of the choices. The former would mean that AP had to keep a number of files updated (and tested) and would anyway limit the combinations and the later would mean a much more advanced installer and a much bigger risk that something went wrong. Can't really see that fit with AP:s philosophy either, they remove old packs from sale they feel are subpar (rather than sale as legacy packs or similar) so it would seem out of character to offer locos with "old" features. In the end it is AP:s choice to offer what they want. But is there really any problems with the traction updates? As far as I understod the initial problems of the traction physics (slow acceleration and not possible to reach max speed) where quite quickly fixed and they seems to work quite well. I never got around to test the first releases since they were updated just a few days later. I haven't had any problem to complete the scenarios I have run since the update. I would recommend to install the updates and if you don't like them delete them and install the old files (if you have saved them).
AP packs feature multiple packs and locos which have variations of the files - the effect of the locos power up gradients is in the Simulation Files - I think. I have saved the installation files but I don't seem to have all the extra livery packs. Deleting the installed file might make me lose other locos. The bit about the bugs on the windows does not affect the whole loco as it is just an effect on the windscreen. I would happily remove it if I could - but I'm not sure how.[/quote][/QUOTE]
I sure I did something like that as suggested by Reef - when he was here. I will give the 411 another look.
