Mittenwaldbahn Discussion Thread!

The route looks great, yes. But IMHO it does not offer much in terms of gameplay, and because it's mostly 60kmh running, there will predominantly be very long services and that does not appeal to me. Loved the stream though, ze Germans always bring a funny casual atmosphere that contrasts hilariously against DTGs corporate correctness. How many times has Lukas let a 'f*ck' slip out on stream now? :p

 

I watched some of it. There was a lot of stuttering on the stream itself but that seemed to be related to the streaming pc not working properly, as there was an FPS counter on screen and that displayed consistent 60 fps...

 

Matt was having trouble with his streaming PC, which at one point died completely.

The game itself (on a different PC) was running perfectly fine as far as I could tell.

 

What we need from DTG or TSG then is a “pure” video capture of the route in action to confirm if there are performance issues.

I mean, going back a month or two the WCMLOS had stutters and sound distortion and squelching and that is exactly how it plays in game. Some of that I will admit probably down to potato PC but then as debated in previous threads about performance, the same issue evident on PS5 which is standard hardware and the best of the best so far as consoles are concerned. Same problem. No at some point since the inception of TSW5, the DTG coders dropped the ball. Maybe it’s the new 2D map as has been postulated but while DTG remain tight lipped on the problem and solutions in the pipeline, it doesn’t encourage buying further expensive DLC.

 

There was information in another thread that supposedly the XboX X should be somehow reduced for the gen 9 console, will this also apply to the PS5?

 

No, this purely an XSX thing. It’s being held back by the fact that it’s the same version that runs on the less capable XSS

 

Oh, I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why? Is XboX so bad?

 

it's not, it just seems like people are making stuff up or maybe i just keep getting lucky and had no problems with the Xbox series x

 

Draw distance on Xbox Series X is bad. That's why I'm not gonna buy another mountain route.

 

Indeed, the Series X build is just about right balance in terms of graphics/performance for gen 9 console, I really enjoyed TSW on that platform when I had one.

 

On the other hand, I have no problems with Semmeringbahn and Vorarlberg on PS5, in fact they are practically the only maps where there is no problem with blurry textures etc. ..... interesting contrast

EDIT: And Bernina the same, no problem

 

It runs fine, but the draw distance is lower, DTG admitted this themselves, also on last night’s stream

 

So I'm curious whether it will actually be just Xbox or whether it will be on consoles as a whole, i.e. also on PS5

 

The draw distance is always lower on Xbox. According to Matt, this was originally supposed to apply to PS as well, but in the early days of TSW something got confused so that PS got the farther draw distances that you can also get on PC. The apparent trade-off is that TSW runs smoother on Xbox than PS, so pick your poison I guess. Why, if PS is supposed to have less draw distance, this was not corrected at any point through the years, is unknown.

I should add that, according to DTG themselves, this has nothing to do with Series S holding back Series X, since decreased draw distance was originally supposed to apply to all consoles.

 

Which makes it even worse as it's most likely never to be fixed.
For me, this excludes a purchase of any mountainous TSW route at any time, because I unfortunately know the area too well in reality and with that reduced draw distance don't feel immersed at all.
Well, at least have fun with a great looking DLC, PC and PS(5) folks.

 

On mountain routes like this the reduced draw distance on Xbox series X is a strong no buy argument for me.
Scenery is a big part on this route and if it's crippled and cutted out it got not much play value, other than the rolling stock.
This route on Xbox is a immersion breaker like Vorarlberg.

Looks like on xbox consoles, no matter if gen 8 or 9, you have no other choice than to stay away from scenic mountain routes as they will look just bad.

 

Yeah, exactly, unfortunately. Rosenheim-Salzburg was the last route I bought for Xbox, but Vorarlberg is even worse. For me as a big fan of mountains, it was a letdown. Since then I’ve slowly been migrating to Steam, taking advantage of the sales.

Edit: On topic, this route looks phenomenal and pending first impressions of fellow forum members I’m probably buying this one next week!

 

So I would say that the reduced draw distance on Xbox definitely degrades the experience on VBRG to the point where I don't enjoy playing it. In SRM it is not as noticeable except in certain spots. This is all subjective of course, and if I lived in these areas would no doubt be more of a game breaker. After watching the stream, although it was confirmed that Mittenwald has reduced draw distances, they did say that you can see the mountains across the valley, which was my main concern. It was also mentioned that the deceased draw distance is not especially noticeable in the cab, which is probably true. The problem is that on slow speed routes such as this I tend to use the external camera more, so would probably notice the draw distance more. I will probably buy anyway because of the rolling stock and to support the great work that TSG does. But it is right to question whether or not these panoramic routes are worth a buy on Xbox.

 

Or maybe your levels of expectation are considerably lower than others because if the overwhelming majority are experiencing problematic moments with TSW5 on XSX then it's it's really not so difficult to conclude that there is an ongoing problem with our version of the game.

I personally haven't played it for very long (it arrived on gamepass 3 days before my subscription expired) but even I experienced some horrific framerate drops on the two European Maps as well as occasional CTD's during my time with the game, so with that and everything else in mind, I'm genuinely struggling to see how you could possibly reach the assumption that people are "making stuff up"!
Why would they even want to do that?

 

During the stream I asked myself a couple if times, if there are ... all ... shadows missing? Some scenes looked totally artificial because of that.
When Matt stopped the train and looked around the station, there were suddenly shadows.
In the manual there is a disclaimer because of trees ... maybe more?

 

I had a question in the Mittenwaldbahn stream thread on whether the frequent sound cut outs seen in the yesterday stream were a real problem within the game and not a streaming issue. Despite tagging DTG personnel, instead of answering the question the thread was locked. Could DTG answer here please? I believe the answer matters to many. I was planning to buy this on day 1, but if this issue is in the game, it's not going to be the case for sure. dtg_jan DTG Alex

Thank you very much.

 

We’re going to have another preview tomorrow (Lukas on a German YouTuber’s stream), so it gives us a chance to see the route without Matt’s streaming PC causing the stutters also, not sure why everyone is suddenly so angry about the Xbox draw distance topic. This has been known for ages, and when Matt talked about it in detail a while back, I seem to remember that it came down to an Xbox-specific limitation (either different hardware compared to PS, or the Series S dragging down the settings of the SX because they can’t upload different game builds to the store for both). I’m practically certain it’s not the frankly ridiculous claim that the reduced draw distance was “forgotten” for PS5. I mean LOL. Let’s hope they can add something to the core that allows them to bump up the Series X’s draw distance in the future.

Regarding the route itself, I was super impressed. Was only able to notice super small issues like some grass on the road near Mittenwald. But one big thing will have to be addressed immediately: The sky texture reflection in the ÖBB loco’s cab windows. Super unfortunate because it should be number 1 on every dev’s “build a loco” checklist to turn that darn reflection off. It’s a simple tick box that always gets disabled, Matt himself stated this and described the reflection as annoying. I have no idea how that managed to make it into the release build. I don’t care a lot about some tunnel lighting issues (only a few seconds and then it looks normal again), those can be fixed in the next patch. But having to look at that super blurry and unrealistic reflection for 1h40min? …not sure if I can justify buying it until that gets fixed. As I said in another thread, for 40€ I can’t make any compromises. The route has to fully satisfy me.

 

I agree it seems ridiculous, but Matt said it himself. Unfortunately it was on some stream who knows when so I guess I'll have to stand on my recollection only. Perhaps Matt will make an appearance to set the record straight. It would be great to be proven wrong because that would mean that the draw distance problem on Xbox could potentially be solved. In any case I agree that this is not exactly a new issue.

 

Just an FYI, it isn't actually a standard thing on investigation. I had to go digging to find an example of it being used and mostly seems to be the ICE3 family. Nor is it actually a checkbox, its a modified material function that has to be added.

 

Just like there are questions about the Xbox X and S, the PS5 Pro has been on the market for three months now and I think that no one from DTG has made any effort to exploit its potential yet.
but that's off topic

 

Oh, very interesting! One other example I remember is the MML Class 158, where it was very noticeable during the preview stream and took quite a while to get fixed. As long as it’s on your radar and (hopefully) part of an upcoming patch, it’s all good was just surprised during the preview because - as I said - last time I saw that reflection was on the 158 a few years ago

 

Just a personal guess, but I reckon they may start looking at the capabilities of the PS5 Pro once the old gen consoles are no longer supported. It’s a lot of work to optimize the game for so many hardware generations right now already.

 

Oh I already fixed it today, although it will be a post release change due to how the builds and testing work.

 

What I’m asking myself after the stream is just one thing:
Right after the station at Garmisch that is only used for ski jumping a level crossing is situated. This one also has the yellow signal that indicates the driver that the crossing is closed by flashing- just like on Niddertalbahn. On Niddertalbahn there was a 1% chance that the crossings fail and have to be operated manually- is this also implemented on Mittenwaldbahn?
Would be very cool!!!!
Apart from that this looks like a route I will probably buy first day- the excitement for a route is back for the first time in months now!

 

I didn't even know that Niddertalbahn had that feature! I completed literally the whole timetable and it never happened to me
Would indeed be very cool to have this on Mittenwaldbahn (as well)!

 

As posted in the official thread, the route and stock look good as expected. But I don’t like that no one on stream made any attempt to answer concerns about blurry textures et al on PS5. Also, what was going on with the 1020s sound cutting off every 10 seconds or so?

 

Any idea when the fix could be released? Is it more like days or weeks? I may wish to delay my purchase and wait for it... provided that the sound cut outs were streaming issues...

Many thanks!

 

Can you please point me to the right channel where this preview will be streamed? And what time is it scheduled for? Thanks!

BTW I agree with you on the sky reflections, another deal breaker for me unforunately. I understand the fix probably already exists but we know how releasing them works... it either takes ages or it may never get released. And console platforms are usually slowing this process down...as DTG's rule is all platforms at the same time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/l7VivdZBxls

 

A

I actually am surprised that it wasn’t made much bigger of a thing when it released since it’s like the only randomised event that can happen on any route; I had it once and it makes Niddertalbahn so much more interesting since you really have to pay attention at every crossing and signal even more!

 

Very concerned now about the sounds. What we need to know is it, a. The core, in which case we are reliant on DTG stepping up to the plate and doing something about it. Or, b. An issue with the loco sound itself, perhaps a bad loop in part of the audio which TSG will need to fix.

 

Frankly I can't say I like the fact that in the stream thread here instead of replying to the question they just locked it... not saying it was intentional but certainly potentially a bad sign... I was so much looking forward to the route but with such a flaw it's perhaps not worth even half the price for me...

 

I can actually answer this as I wrote the manual for it. I didn't include it in the manual here because this is actually simulated on one single crossing in Germany, the rest are mostly either unprotected or signaller controlled. And the rules in Austria are different so there isn't something like in Germany, at least at the time the route is set.
The way you can identify which crossing it is if you encounter this signal (the Bü 0/1):

​

 

Bü1 actually does not indicate that the barriers are closed as rather that the trigger mechanism for technically secured crossings, after the train has driven over the contact, is working correctly. By definition when Bü1 is shown, the driver is allowed to pass the level crossing without the obligation to stop before the crossing and to safe the level crossing manually.

I guess this is allowed for technical-secured level crossings since common sense is that a technically secured level crossing's mechanism can't fail to work.

But in theory, the barriers could still be open due to another mechanical fault.

 

Just as a shameless plug: Visit Matin_TSP s Mittenwaldbahn preview stream on Youtube in a few hours to have a good second look at the route! Lukas from TSG will also be there

 

I will take that on faith then and move towards a Day One purchase as I really want this route and the vintage stock. Not to say there aren’t issues with the core of course but so long as it’s not jittering every few seconds I’ll be happy enough. Just one other thing Lukas - the tunnel reverb, I presume it is there just wasn’t particularly audible during the stream?

I actually travelled on this route in 1983 and the train was formed of the similar yl stock (byl second class). I was used by that point to the lack of comfort on the D Trains usually formed of Bm232 etc. UIC coaches, but I couldn't believe DB and OBB between them couldn't supply something a little more comfortable for such a scenic ride.

 

Matin_TSP could you show that during the livestream in one hour?

(Alternatively, Vern just ask for it during the livestream. )

 

Sadly I won't be able to watch live, but if there's a YT archive I will view it tomorrow or Monday.

 

Sure thing

 

Yes, livestreams - just as the official ones by DTG - will stay online after the broadcast in the streams category of each YouTube channel. You will find it here in the next days (and years) still.

 

So as the answer above suggests, watching the stream I am able to report no sound cut outs during the drive with the 1020 (while in-cab). If the window reflections are fixed on Feb 18, I see no reason not to go for it now. The only question is if one trusts the info provided and therefore if this will be a Feb 11 or a Feb 18 purchase...

 

Just one thing i'd like to point out: For reasons i don't really understand, the 1020 service didn't have a good fps. But that was defo an exception, that has never occured before.
In the second half where we drive the BR 111, you can see the normal performance I've had. That's definitely the performance i've always had. Please keep that in mind, before anyone watches this and wonders about performance

 

I'm watching the German stream now, it has much better quality, but one thing seems unnatural to me on OBB 1020, and that's the locomotive frame, from a distance it looks so strange, I don't know if it's the color of the texture, but it looks like it's through some kind of filter, or like some kind of dirty glass.....

 

One more thing seemed unnatural to me, as the weather and date were set for November, with the increasing altitude, light snow began to appear, but compared to the surroundings, the gravel on the tracks was much whiter than the surroundings, it seemed quite unnatural .....
it could be optically deceptive, but I don't know