It is very clear that so far, they aren't *that* far yet, and there's a few minor details. I mean, for starters, they don't seem to have yet programmed anything with the lights, all of them being on by default at this point. Also, I'm not sure. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but the center frontlight switch is never supposed to be in the down position, and I'm not even sure if it's actually supposed to even be able to move down, as drivers always keep it in the middle. But as long as they're clearly not yet to the point of properly implementing the switches, I'm not too concerned, so we'll see
anybody noticed that with the SNGs livery the white line above the blue part where the passenger windows are located being thick when it should be way thinner
I did, but if you look closely, there also does not seem to be a pantograph at all. It seems to be very early in development, so I'm not yet worried about such details
PIS on both also does not seem to show anything yet. hope it doesn't get released as unfinished as PLB
You forgot the best detail; Zwolle-Groningen now moved to the 0-3 months section of the roadmap, which means we can expect the route in or before May.
Definitely! While I do prefer quality over rushed releases, I'm too excited and just can't wait I was worried that with many projects before it, it being last reveal of the August ticket show, them at that point only having done some of the very most basic modelling work on the ICM, and the +3 or so months of developments as the team would have to completely start from scratch for all the basic assets and knowledge on how the Dutch systems work, that this project could go well into summer for its release date. Assuming though that from this point we'll be waiting the full 3 months, it'll be one of the longest 3 months of my life! I do think it'll be the case though, that we're gonna have to wait the full 3 months. They're clearly not yet that far in actually programming functionality, considering they have not done any of the functionality of any of the lights, and they're all lit on the ICM. And the SNG has no lights, and even in the blur, I do not see any traces of a (raised) pantograph either. So I think the SNG is probably at this point nothing yet but an empty shell they put on the track for the purposes of a glimpse in the WIP screenshot.
That said, that last pic does make me wondering about something I think I mentioned before. That pic does seem to confirm to me that they're planning to add the SNG as a double coupled unit for the services on this route (as is most often the case on this route, particularly during peak hours). (hopefully some (un)coupling objectives during timetable services as well ) If they're planning to add guard mode to this route, which I really hope they do, have they yet considered how they make this work in a coupled EMU unit through which the conductor can not just walk through to the other train yet? Personally I was disappointed to see they did not in fact add guard mode to the DB BR 425 on Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn, which I personally suspect, is probably in large part due to them not yet having figured out how to make guard mode work properly on coupled EMU's without a gangway.
That's true. And a single 3 car ICM set on this route during peak hours is also pretty rare and short. But this is the first time I'm seeing them coupled in a confirmed screenshot, so I'm talking about them mostly here.
I guess that makes sense. I'm not that knowledgeable on German systems overall though. I don't visit Germany often either. Do they not have guards to do tickets either on these trains than?
And you do your assumption on a few indicator lights that are on, on a older screenshot? Nice, i wish i could do that. But back to real facts, indicator lights are the last thing that get bound to the underlying and already existing functionality. The indicator controller is mostly one piece of a component and all functionality needs to be working before you can bind it to the states of each functionality. A WiP screenshot never shows any functional state of a TSW train.
mkraehe#6051, based on the many cabride videos I have watch for Dutch trains, the driver, at least on NL, is waiting for the 2 tones from the train manager to signify that the main and then manager's door have started the closing procedure, followed by the indicator light on the console to indicate doors have locked. Now on some Arriva operated trains, the driver does control the doors. To be sure I have asked one of the NL drivers who posts videos that question. Let me clarify one thing, the tones are instigated by the manager pushed the close button for the main doors and turning his key for his door. Let me further say I live in the US so am basing this on watching the videos.
In real life, the conductor waits for the white light marked "V" (on the platform) to come on. This is the departure signal. He then turns his key clockwise into the door controls of the door he's standing in, which puts those door controls in master mode (which means they now control all doors except "this" one, instead of the other way around). The conductor then whistles, either using an actual whistle or the electric whistle that's built into the train (modern stock only). The electric whistle activates when the conductor puts the controls into master mode - repeated whistles can be done by taking the controls out of master mode and activating the master mode again. With the controls in master mode, the conductor presses the close button, which will close all doors except the one the conductor is at. At this point, the first "ding" sounds in the cab. The conductor then takes the door controls out of master mode again (by turning his key counter clockwise), and presses the door close button again. This time, this closes "his" door. The second "ding" now soundsi n the cab. The driver now waits for the green light to come on, which signals that all doors are closed and secured.
mkraehe#6051, yes I left out that blinking white light, but I always see it before the conductor starts his sequence. Living in the US, that actual procedure is something I have never seen, thanks for that information.
Just a real-life photo of a Sprinter, taken yesterday at Haren (a station on the upcoming DLC). Seems the livery on the sprinter in the background of the picture shared by DTG is not quite right yet (the white band on the top is too wide there).
What of the German rolling stock travels on this line in real life? Does anyone know? (I know about ICE)
The ICE does not travel on this line. Sometimes freight with a Vectron or BR 185 (any generic German freight loco). And around Zwolle and Groningen Stadler FLIRTS from Arriva, which operate regional branch lines.
Just look at the map. There's no logical route to have trains running between Groningen and Germany. The only link is a diesel line westward connecting remote villages. The major focus on the train connections are on national routes, connecting Groningen to the rest of the country. Trains connecting the Netherlands with Germany don't go over Groningen, not even over Zwolle.
Yes, for example the lines you see north and northeast of Groningen, towards Leeuwarden and to the west and southwest of Leeuwarden.
Less on the sarcasm please. Yes, I am making assumptions. I am fully aware of that. We do not have anything else to go by. And yes, I did see the fact that the speed bar seems to be functional as well as the brake gauges, so the most important parts to driving on the ICM do seem to be functional. I mean, the thicker white band does kind of make sense, and I do think the blur is doing a lot of the work in making it look thicker. But there is an extra small white band on 1st class as you can see in the pic below: It looks to me like in the blurred pic they made the large blue band be on perfect level with the top of the doors when instead it should be raised slightly over it. But as I said, both, it's not done yet, as well as, blurr could be causing a lot of the distortion, so let's just wait and see for when they release the first clear pic of the NS SNG in full view Also, regarding your comment about FLIRT's in Zwolle and Groningen. The ones in Zwolle aren't actually Arriva, they're Keolis. And technically speaking, I believe, the ones operated by Arriva in Groningen are actually WINK's and not FLIRT's (could be wrong though)
I trust they will have the right livery at release In the north, Arriva operates both GTW and WINK, which are both derived from the FLIRT. Both have a diesel-electric power pack, where the WINK is bi-modal (also has a pantograph to load the batteries or draw electric power directly). And you are right about Keolis ;-)
Indeed as shown the ICE's usually go over Amsterdam - Utrecht - Arnhem like the Nightjets do. historically due to maintenance they have driven from Arnhem to Utrecht over the not shown Betuweroute on that map (a mainly freight line as most people know so a weird experience when you get rerouted there. also over Venlo and den Bosch a year or two ago or now over Amersfoort (at least the nightjets, idk about the ICE's) so apart from prototypical there are some rerouted timteables possible
Actually, you've got a line (Bremen-)Norddeich Mole-Emden-Leer-Groningen, which goes parallel to the line for about 2,2 km between Groningen Europapark and Groningen. The problem with it is, that some ship crashed into a bridge pylon of the "Friesenbrücke" (a bascule bridge) at Weener, what makes it unusable since somewhat in 2015, even though a reopening is planned for this year...right now, not really much traffic. The usable part Weener-Groningen is served with Stadler GTW (1tph/direction). (and is part of a in-building pan-european route Amsterdam-Groningen-Bremen-Hamburg-Copenhagen til 2030.
You're confusing the 185 and 186. A 185 would catch fire in spectacular fashion, as it's not compatible with the 1500 V DC power that's on the catenary on this route. A 185 only supports 15 kV and 25 kV AC. Most German freight loco's would fry in fact, except the already mentioned 186, 189* and 193. Those do support 1500 V DC and are certified to run in the Netherlands too. So as long as the particular unit has ATB systems on board, they're good to go. A 25 kV capable German loco could, in theory, run in the Netherlands, but only on the Betuweroute (as that line is 25 kV AC). The unit would be have to be equipped with ECTS though, and they can only up to the voltage changeovers in Rotterdam, which isn't very useful. So usually it's usually Vectrons and 186s on that line too, with the occasional diesel engine (class 66, 6400 and 6700). While NS operates Vectrons and 186s, you'll usually not see them on this line. The 186 is exclusive to Intercity Direct services on the HSL Zuid and a few services in the south, while the Vectron is exclusive to the IC to Berlin and the NightJet. None of these services run on this line. Quite a number of freight operators run 186s and Vectrons in the Netherlands though, including DB, OBB and SBB and a number of smaller Dutch firms. I think we can safely say that RailForceOne has the coolest livery on a Vectron ever. All these operators can be found on this line, although DB is most common. Luckily that loco already exists in TSW5, including the correct livery, so they only need to add ATB into the DMI. *The 183 (Taurus multi system) also supports 1500 V DC, but isn't certified for operations in the Netherlands (and is not equipped with ATB for that reason, although they have the option to be fitted with it)
There are a few and infrequent freight services between Onnen and the Ruhr area in Germany. Usually consisting of kettle cars, sub coal pellet cars or container cars from Delfzijl, pulled by a set of 6400s or a BR 193 (Vectron). If the TSW route is set before 2019, there'd also be freight services originating from Eemshaven on this route.
This route certainly won't be set before 2019 though. The NS SNG included in this route only came into service in 2019, and assuming there's 10/10 consistency, they used the yellow fronted livery which only got introduced in 2021, my guess it they're gonna go as modern as they can, so either 2024 or 2025. Some small oil trains do run on this route though. The Vectron DB picture I posted a while earlier in this thread, carrying some oil wagons, dates back to only september 2024, and that loc can raise the 1,5Kv pantograph in the game. You'd only be missing ATB which could be a small upgrade away.
Bad Bentheim to Onnen with a Br189: The 189 is the loco I've seen most often on this line. It's very recognizable with its corrugated sides.
On the screenshots of the interior you can see that there are no platform canopy, those were removed in May 2021. And on one of the screenshots of the cab you can still see the original stairs of the footbridge, those were replaced by temporary stairs in September 2023. So the route will probably be set in 2022.
I did notice that the backgrounds did seem to be around Groningen, but I'm personally more familiar with the south end of the route as I commute to Zwolle daily. So than the blue structure from the cabview is this specific sctructure in the pic below? I do think this might be a good decision to some degree. I don't know the exact progress of the building project for Groningen station, but can you confirm or deny of Groningen looked more like a full on construction side in 2022 or today? Also, an upside is that in 2023, they rebuilt the tracks in and around Hoogeveen, which is in a curve, both removing platform 3 and taking the local speed restriction from 80km/h to full line speed of 140km/h. One of the downsides to this route is that it has relatively long stretches with little speed variations. Of the top of my head, the speeds from Zwolle to Groningen, as they are currently in 2025. station Zwolle - 40kmh (as you leave) - 60kmh (in the approach) - 100kmh (as you leave the approach) - 140kmh - 120kmh (in the curve at Staphorst) - 80kmh - station Meppel - 140kmh - Hoogeveen - 140kmh - Beilen - 140 kmh - 80kmh (as you approach Assen) - station Assen - 140kmh - 130 kmh (as you pass Onnen) - Station Haren - 130kmh - 80kmh (as you approach Groningen Europapark) - station Groningen Europapark - 40kmh - Groningen station. This means there's relatively little speed variations on a line that's very long for TSW standard. Building the line before the 2023 rework means there's at least another speed variation at Hoogeveen, which breaks up the monotony of the route a little bit.
Yes, the blue structure should be the same as the one in your photo. I think that Groningen is now slightly more of a construction site than in 2022, although it was already clearly visible in 2022. I used this site to compare the changes per year: https://www.topotijdreis.nl/satelliet/2022/@233697,581086,12.6
In the picture below, you can see the DUO building in Groningen https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempkensberg_(kantoorgebouw)
The pedestrian bridge will disappear in the near future. When the station is done, you can cross through the new tunnels.
Just passed such a consist this afternoon near Tynaarlo, a red Vectron pulling six of those wagons, heading North.
Most of the time it will leave the wagons at Onnen, from where a diesel loco will pull them onwards to Delfzijl (via Groningen).
I do hope that it wont be a mix of different years like I did with NONL (the TSC route that includes this line). Like for example in NONL v7 (upcoming version) I rebuilded the station from the ground up, but the 2023 version of the station while a station like Zwolle is still a 2020 version, Hoogeveen with the old curve frok before 2023... its a mess So hopefully DTG makes it 1 consistent year over the complete route...
Just watched a little of the Roadmap stream (just the bit about Zwolle-Groningen, obviously) and I was very pleased to hear Matt say that NS were really cooperative and gave DTG all the access they need for research and recording. Not only does that promise some good quality on Zwolle-Groningen, it also increases the chances of further collaboration between NS and DTG. So lets just hope sales go well and DTG will do more Dutch content.
agreed. as said before our country may be flat and this route not super exciting or special. it gives us some stock to work with and for the future some busy and interesting routes to drive on.
Frankly, for as much as it's worth, I'm happy that Matt mentioned the feedback from the beta-team is so positive. On first glance, on paper, this would be a really boring route. Basically Hauptstrecke Hamburg - Lübeck but almost twice the length and almost half the stations, and about almost half the service variety too especially without freight options, excluding adding the Vectron DB on free-roam. The fact that, as Matt mentioned, the cooperation by NS is probably the most cooperative any operator has ever been, and the alledged positivity by the beta-team, does make me more confident that this might be the most high-fidelity addon as of yet by DTG.
It's great to hear NS is being cooperative - I imagine it's very hard to do this without them. Not so much the route, as you can rebuilt that with satellite images and cabview videos like the freeware community in TS has done with 75% of the Dutch real network, but to simulate the trains themselves, requires inside access. Christrains, who make most of the Dutch rolling stock in TSC, have done a wonderful job without inside access, don't get me wrong. But certain things in those trains are simplified, or absent, because of this (and the limitations that TSC brings probably has something to do with that too of course). I don't expect "BR 101 Expert" like implementations in thise Dutch route though, but somewhere in between TSC's level of realism and that BR 101 expert level of realism would be great.
The departure signal, a white light marked with a sign that says "V" (for Vertrek - which is Dutch for "Depart"). isn't always present. You'll only see them when the train could encounter a signal soon after departing the station. When that signal shows green or static yellow, the V-signal will blink. The conductor now knows that the train can depart directly after he secures the doors. If the light is off, the next signal is showing red or blinking yellow and it's best not to depart (as the train would need to stop soon after departure anyway). Before 2022, the V signals didn't blink, but were either off (don't depart) or on (safe to depart). But conductors complained that the signals were sometimes hard to make out between all the other lights in their field of view (the conductor could be at the back of the train, meaning he's up to 450 meters from the V signal). By making them blink, they were easier to distinct from other white lights on the platform. However, DTG just happened to select the one route where blinking V signals have been a thing since 2016, as Zwolle - Groningen was the route on which blinking V signals were tested (before the national changeover in 2022). For more info, read this article by ProRail (the Dutch rail infra operator). It's in Dutch, but Google Translate is your friend.
