All the ATS drama (if you've not checked out that thread then I encourage you to) and the relatively low figures being bandied around - it's starting to sound like it might be possible financially for a couple of forum members to commission a route to made; not on a fully commercial basis but kinda "bounty" scheme if that makes sense. So let's say £15k was put up in total for skilled devs doing it as a hobby. IE not riches of croesues, probably not even minimum wage... but a big incentive if it was something someone wanted to do anyway and was looking for an excuse. What sort of route/timetable/train/whatever could be feasible?
Well a firm, including DTG, could use a Kickstarter approach and take preorders for a new route or stock before starting production. However they would need to be pretty sharp with getting production underway and complete for something people have already paid for.
Crowd funding or kickstarting not really something I would support. As being discussed in the ATS thread, unless you are a full time employee at a software firm on a salary this type of work generally pays out on results, i.e. a royalty on sales. Initial costs are going to be for research, maybe trips to look at the prototype and books or maps but these days most of that can be gleaned for free off the web. Not like the early days of MSTS where I had to buy the OS Maps and manually transpose each and every grid reference for a marker point into the format the game understood! And to be honest, I think at this point to get some of the more obscure routes people want to see in the game, DTG should be stepping up as regards encouraging and nurturing freeware production, by improving the editor, making it more accessible and providing a manual for it.
TSW may or may not be a barometer for what market exists now. They say older stuff etc doesn't sell despite many of us constantly asking. It felt in MSTS days there was some kind of demand for most eras hence why we got Steam right through to Modern day via Green Diesels. Now it's just modern modern modern with a JT Smattering of blue. Green Diesels in TSW are practically non existent. My point being that the lack of a usable editor is slowly eroding the scene and yes TSC is still going but it's original form is 18 years old......eventually it won't be supported in any way by DTG I would guess?
TSC doesn’t seem to get much support now and, while DTG won’t admit it, I suspect they regard it pretty much end of life other than hosting third party produced payware. Certainly the vibe I get from my forays into that area of the forum. And to be honest, at present I have it uninstalled. Took it off to do a content triage as that’s the only way you can really get rid of the files and not got round to reinstalling yet. There’s some good stuff, the more obscure routes which will never make it into TSW and of course steam traction - but not at this stage enough to justify keeping a 500Gb install hanging around.
It went off my PC also. Back on longer shifts at work so less time to find 72 items to make a route work. Shame in a way but TSW has that playability in timetable mode that TSC just doesn't have. Disk space will run out for many TSC users in the end although I would have thought like said its 3rd party onlh from now on.
Years ago I suggested a 'community route' in TSW, similar to Phorum Peninsula, where the community would contribute assets and the profits would be given to charity. However, a system where people offer money for people to develop routes is a bad idea. If someone created a fake bounty and didn't pay out, it would be a big problem. If someone created a request for a route that couldn't be possibly done and some developer took the money to try and fail to make it, that would be an issue for both parties.
Yes it’s Timetable mode and to some extent Journey that hook me into TSW. I know some routes are simply repeating service patterns but not every run is the same and if DTG ever sort out the save issue for chaining services it would be great to spend an extended period on a route and see how late running piles up. And while I generally scoff at achievements and such like, I was getting a bit of guilty pleasure and an incentive to keep playing going for the February Mastery. At least until the distance reset to zero but I’ve now got Support on the case with that so hopefully get my progress back.
Aside from whether or not this is a good idea or not, you'd also have to figure out whether or not this would count as a commercial project. If it did, you'd have to release it through DTG, and I don't think they have a system in place through which backers could then recieve the finished product without paying for it a second time.
There could be an escrow system for this. Effectively what's suggested by Tim RTC as a preorder system, but the money held by some neutral entity to make sure the thing actually happens! I am particularly interested in what a "reasonable" fee would be. These are mostly labours of love right? Or looking at it the other way what would £15k (which I think is a realistic amount to raise) get? That's basically three man months at what I guess a commercial rate would be for a mid level game dev - possibly a whole man year for those as I say mostly doing it as a hobby. I may be wildly off.
A bounty system is one thing. A crowdfunding system is another thing entirely, and seems very practical.
I would hope both could be combined. Folk post that they would pay xyz if someone would make abc. If someone is interested in making abc as a project they start the crowdfunding for one - permitting overpaying at least up to xyz. Let me propose a project - a "chaos" timetable for WCML north where everything goes wrong (eg its winter and the ECML is diverted onto it and something breaks down at some point). Almost every service following yellows. Crazy looping. How much is this "worth"? I've no clue how long these take to make.
If you have no clue, which is clear, then you should stop thinking about this daft notion you have about commissioning experienced devs and have them work for peanuts. Nobody is going to work for you. Just buy DLC that’s made by people who know what they are doing. If the only thing you got from reading about one dev’s experience with ATS is how little you can get away with paying someone then you have learned the wrong lesson. If you want to work on a project yourself then learn the tools and crack on but forget about going about it any other way, it isn’t going to work.
That's not my plan at all. A cynic might think you were out to start an argument... I've basically got two queries: 1. What's a fair price for stuff? 2. Can a bounty system work to encourage development of one product over another Answer to 2 partly depends on 1 imo.
Not sure why there's so much hostility towards this concept. As third-party content starts to take the lead in TSW, I think crowdfunding is an interesting avenue to explore. A crowdfunded route that's sold through DTG's partner program could potentially be more profitable for a small dev (they probably wouldn't be able to release on console otherwise- EDIT meaning i don't think it would be feasible to completely self-publish on console, so DTG will be in the mix no matter what), especially if it's their first commercial product. It dilutes the initial risk and might encourage some talented devs to jump in who just don't have access to that startup capital. Of course the devil is in the details but i'd absolutely pitch in to a crowdfunding campaign if it was a good proposal. I've done it with other games and no regrets so far.
