London Overground Mildmay Line: Stratford-willesden Junction Discussion Thread

Wow, you called it

 

This might be a hint for the release date maybe, March the 7th ?
EDIT: never mind

 

Coming 4th March

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/london-overground-mildmay-line-coming-soon.89430/

 

Oh I haven’t seen that article, thanks !

 

£24.99 seems reasonable. Will be a day 1 purchase for me.

 

Fair play, certainly better and more interesting than Kaiserslautern. Picking this up too, once I’ve seen the preview stream of course.

 

Yep, can’t argue with that. The one man band here absolutely deserves his pay day!

 

As impressive as this route is, I see no reason why they couldn’t have ended the route at a logic end point (Richmond or Clapham junction). It’s like an extra 6 miles to include.
Even though I’m not happy with the decision not to include those end points, I’ll still support this route with a day one purchase as what’s been achieved by a single developer is Astounding. Quite simply some of the best building asset creations I’ve seen so far in this game. It’s sets the bar very high.

 

Nice

 

WJ is probably quite a logical end point as it keeps everything the same and doesn't leave a "why have you included Richmond/Clapham but not Clapham/Richmond" situation - and also doesn't leave half of the services cut short while half are full runs.

Clapham's a pipe dream as the service count (which is already staggering) would probably double there with 377/4, 387 and more 710/378 traffic.

Richmond is more doable but then has the question of the District Line (484?) and the missing SWR layers (for which we have nothing), and again would still leave the route partitioned.

I'm fine with WJ and with the frequency of trains doing a "shift" is still on the cards.

 

Though I share peoples disappointment with the length of the route, I do have to say this really does look very good.
What I really like is the AI included, my bugbear with so many TSW routes is lack of AI traffic and large empty stations which should be full of trains.
I don't think that will be the case with this route.

 

Got to say that the amount of effort put into Stratford is amazing. It'll be a nice spot to just watch trains go past.
Day 1 purchase for me. As is anything that goes into my old homeland of East London. Not too bothered about having the bit to Richmond. West London's over-rated.

It does raise one question for me though. If that can be done for Stratford, when will DTG put the fake Rivet D stock and some 720-a-likes at Barking on the other LO line to bring the other big East End station to life?

 

Think Liam said he was interested in seeing what could be done to make barking busier. Though of course his hands will be full with GWE currently

 

Yes, let's leave him to finish off making GWE a masterpiece first. Plus the Rivet D Stock-ish might not be ready for GWE yet anyway.

 

Have the layers been confirmed for substituting onto the Watford DC lines?

 

Well the GA and Elizabeth line were presented by class 710s. We could use the class 350 to represent the SWR (they are similar to the 450) services until we get a 455.

 

The 350s in the game (350/1s) were ordered as 450s before being diverted.

 

Thanks for that. You learn something new every day.

Was that when Stagecoach were rumoured to be ready to ditch the Junipers and hand them back to the ROSCO? Or did the DfT cut their order back like they did with Great Eastern's 360s. The original order of 24 units to replace 24 Class 312s was cut back to 21. The DfT seemingly oblivious or uncaring of the fact that the Desiro's seating capacity was significantly lower than the trains they were replacing.

 

I think these class 450s were meant to be 5 coaches, and for some reason the necessary platform extentions couldn't go ahead, so they never reached SWT. Think that's part of the reason why some stickers in the class 350/1's interior are SWT style.

 

For the Reading/Thames Valley services I assume as most of the mainline platforms take 12 coaches (or 10 23m coaches on the 442s and 444s), did those platform extensions finally go ahead prior to the introduction of 10 car 455/456 consists then? The Desiros have selective door opening too, so it surely wouldn't have been an issue.
As there were already enough 444s and 450s to replace the slamdoor units, it would seem to back-up my theory that the extra batch of 450s were to replace the leaky, unreliable Junipers.

 

In all honesty, you could be right, as I wasn't alive at the time. The 458s were definitely out of service for a period, but re-entered service to allow class 442s to be retired.

 

Anyone know what time the preview stream is at roughly? And if anyone has the link to it on YouTube?
Looking forward to tuning in to the preview stream live.
Thanks!

 

All the information is here : https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/week-beginning-february-24th.89512/

On their youtube and twitch channel at 19:00 UTC

 

Perfect, thanks a lot!

 

It’s certainly going to be interesting seeing a route developed by one person.

Johannes clearly has a lot of passion and potential. So Im looking forward to this.

 

Currently looking at the preview. This is really impressive stuff here. For a Solo Developer, it’s got a very well made timetable and route scenery which is great.

almost putting rivet to shame here.

Great Job Johannes!

 

Watched the preview stream and it looks like Johannes did an incredible job.

I did notice 2 nitpicks. First service 2Y64 was repeated 9 times on 2 hour intervals. I am guessing this is an error in the timetable which should be easily fixed. Second was the coach numbers for the 378. The second service was on unit 378216 and the DMSO was numbered 38586. IRL this would be 38016 with the remaining coaches numbered in order 38216, 38316, 38416 and 38116 (DMSO). First service had the same issue. I know it is a nitpick but since the coach number is large, it is quite in your face. I know it would be too late to correct but hope it's looked at for future patches.

 

Dreadful lack of passengers spawning again for an overground route….. it’s been a core issue since tsw4, please fix it!

 

Really enjoyable stream, well done Johannes! A superb effort.

Mildmay Line, once again is a route I enjoyed in Train Simulator Classic, so I was ecstatic to see it come to TSW and I’m enjoying another busy commuter route in TSW. A 45 minute drive is nice and easy, much like Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside.

Stratford is very busy which is good to see!

My only slight gripe is the timetabling not following the xx:00/xx:30 arrival/departure times in places. And that is nitpicking!

 

My only gripe is the sounds but other than that it was pretty good

 

Just to add my opinion, I completely agree with all the positive feedback about the route so far. It looks like a great route especially from a solo developer and puts most other 3rd parties to shame.

What annoys me the most though is how the 378 has been given bog standard electrostar sounds (albeit edited) with the same old “all electrostars / desiros / _____s sound the same” tagline given on the stream, because the 378 is definitely not the same as the others (except the 376 obvs).

I appreciate that Johannes said he did what he can with it, and it’s not a dealbreaker for me, but it’s such a shame that the proper AP sounds didn’t make it. Having accurate sounds on the trains would’ve been so important for the immersion on this route, because you hear them pretty much constantly in real life lol.

I’ll still happily buy the route next week, it’s just disappointing that the immersion isn’t quite there.

 

So I've watched near enough the first hour of the stream (it's been a while since I've gone in for a stream) but it's been a refreshing watch so far. The dynamic between Matt, Harry and Johannes was actually really good and felt quite light-hearted in a good way to me (Despite Harry's love for the 66 but we'll gloss over that).

The route itself looks really good IMO. The scenery just looks so good. There's so much clutter and detail poured into the route and it's just really refreshing to see. Honestly Johannes has done a great job. The city skyline just looks really good to me although I'm unfamiliar with the actual route Irl. But it genuinely shows what can be done with care and attention to detail in a similar vein to JT and TSG. I love the details with the extra traffic, liveries and making use of other content. But it sounds like it's also really well optimised, especially if Beta testers are reporting good performance on consoles and no layers are being cut.

The only thing for me is just the sounds as mentioned. I worry about the electrostar sounds on Xbox which on SEHS and BML aren't great and distort a lot. I hope this isn't the same here. For me it's these electrostar sounds that just temper my enthusiasm a bit. But I travel on them all the time and have run through ECW, BML and SEHS which has burnt me out a little on them personally.

But as I say let that not take away from what is a beautifully made route which showcases all the care and attention Johannes has put in. I hope other third parties have their notebooks out here!

 

I had a look at the stream and I´m impressed how someone just made all this in one year (including a new train, AI trains etc.). Even in TSC that would be crazy, but in TSW I really ask myself, how the hell he did it. He could have not been doing much else in that year besides working on that project.
I won´t be buying it, because I don´t buy anything anymore for this game.... but I just wanted to tip my hat to the work.

PS: AI trains like the DLR should become more of thing in this game. It would really help make timetables more interesting.

 

Definitely a day one purchase for me now.

The route comes across as fantastic. The eye for detail was hands down the best I've seen in the game to date, with nothing left spared. As for Johannes himself he was probably the best developer/member of a stream I've come across, he conducts himself in such an intelligent well informed manner. Not only did he answer questions, but he really went into detail and explained himself articulately and thoroughly... Better then the short dismissive answers we become accustomed to by some other developers.

Johannes, not only have you got clear talent in making content for this game. But the way you conducted yourself and presented the route in the stream was so impressive and well informed. I only have praise for you.

 

I agree that the sounds are a little underwhelming and I'd say that and the passenger issue are my only problems about this route, I think DTG could have provided some help to Johannes in regards to train sounds and I hope nobody blames it on him as I'm sure he wouldn't have had much control over that as he's probably quite occupied.
However for those PC uses that'll be buying this, I'm sure someone will hopefully release sound mods for the 378 shortly after the release of the Mildmay Line on Train Sim Community, but for other users it definitely is quite frustrating.
I'll be buying this Day One - heck, I'm even waking up early at 5AM just to buy this straight away off Steam (for those wondering, I'm from Sydney Australia) and I plan on driving backwards and forwards along the line for a bit as this route is right up my alley.
Massive massive thanks to Johannes for putting the work into this route, and I really look forward to his future projects, part of me likes Incredible Trains more then other 3rd party developers like JT or even Rivet now!
Hope everyone enjoys the route as much as I'm sure I will!

 

Still on the fence about this. No doubt about the dedication of the guy, but as mused on before it’s still being done for a payday and if the original author doesn’t extend it, no one else will or come along and do a full NLL. Given the mount of feedback about the route cutting off short, they could hardly ignore the question and as we know these things are rather stage managed to look sincere. That said, the odds of this route eventually going to Richmond and Clapham are something like 20/1 vs Rivet going to St Moritz with Bernina, 1000/1.

Recycled albeit slightly remixed sounds are a bit disappointing though this was expected.

Ongoing performance with TSW and sound distortions is the biggest yellow flag for me. Did Matt or anyone else mention this on the stream as it was raised by several people in the Q&A including myself? Or was it swept aside along with the other difficult questions?

So I think for now it’s still a pass, maybe one for a sale later in the year or if the sound issues with the core are resolved.

 

I don't recall anything being mentioned about sounds. The issue of consol textures and general performance, was raised. Nothing to report, investigation ongoing.

I wonder if the cab with have the same Z-fighting issue as all the other electrostars in xbox. They did say the cab has been fully rebuilt, do maybe there is a chance.

 

Thanks Bob.

Investigations! The programmer doesn’t know how they broke their own code!!

 

The route and train did look very well made and I took congratulate the developer. A lot of work has gone into the clearly and for someone starting out on their own it's an achievement. I enjoyed hearing him talk, it is clear he is very passionate.

I might get it at some point, I certainly would do if it was getting extended. Unfortunately I'm a little bored of TSW currently and still have the TSG route to buy, which does interest me, plus a load of TSC add-ons.

I'll be keeping an eye on what he brings out next with interest.

 

And as regards TSC, you have the (full) NLL plus Goblin Line in one complete package.

Sadly this is exactly where TSW falls down. There doesn’t seem to be any sort of long term plan for enhancing or extending the existing content. Right now they should be planning and coordinating with Incredible Trains a proposal to merge Goblin into NLL, finish the latter and maybe add a bit more to make an East/North/West London super route. Instead of which we get standalone random routes, presumably picked from the management and staff personal wishlists which fail to satisfy anyone other than those who want a quick A to B drive on an electric bus service.

SimRail have a long term plan for their network as do Run 8. Time DTG picked up the mantle.

 

It would be good if the two routes were merged. It would give an opportunity for longer freight runs too.

Whilst I like to dabble a bit with US freight it's not enough to get onto Run 8. Simrail might be promising but the poor single player game and the lack of UK content puts me off.

 

Run 8 has also got expensive with the flurry of new routes, the lousy exchange rate and their awful e-commerce system.

And I hear you re SimRail, I reinstalled it but increasingly frustrated at not being able to drive the full timetable in SP mode, saving as you go.

 

Matt has implied over various streams that ‘route merging’ is a possibility, and could be done.

The new timetable required to make it work would be large ‘timesink’ in both creation and simulation time, but could be done.

Its the memory issue that would be the problem as it needs to keep track of every train running in the timetable.

Lets say that Mildmay was merged with WCMLS and Suffragette.

Whilst you may be doing a run from Barking to Gospel Oak, the game is still keeping track of the Central Line, DLR and Anglia services at Stratford and Southern between Harrow & Watford etc which you will never see in your run.

Now whilst it would be nice to have an extension to Clapham and a merge with BML (and in turn ECW) what frame-rate would you get with it tracking services many miles away on the map.

Would a timetable merge for ECW, BML, WCMLS, Suffragette & Mildmay even compile properly?

I would love to be able to do a through run from Eastbourne - Brighton (reverse) - Milton Keynes, but personally think that such a run would only be possible as a ‘Scenario’ rather than a ‘timetable’ service, as scenarios only have to know of trains you will see.

Thats the main difference between TSC & TSW.

Route merges in TSC work due to them being more akin to ‘Scenarios’ rather than ‘Timetables’.

 

Obviously can’t fault the detail & effort put into the route we’ve got. The extra stuff such as DLR and ELZ & GA stock is great too.

I will be giving the release a miss though, the ending at Willesden was as I feared, just abrupt & didn’t feel right. After a 45 minute journey it just leaves a bad aftertaste to abandon the train there. The issue really compounds itself when you look at how great the route is, it’s just a real shame it ends where it does.

Moving over to a couple of bits that are out of IT’s control, the lighting was once again overly harsh & it really doesn’t do any favours for TSW’s overly clean aesthetic. Passenger count on both the platforms & trains is egregiously low once again too.

I feel asif most routes these days are just tech demos of what TSW could do, if the focus was going into more areas. As Vern said above, TSC you get both Goblin & NLL in one, TSW though can’t even deliver the whole NLL as a standalone.

 

Presumably TfL know that the route only covers the Stratford to Willesden part of the Mildmay Line and are happy that it's being sold as such? TfL's own information on the line is quite clear that it runs from Stratford to Richmond / Clapham Jn.

 

I doubt we'd have got anywhere near the release stage if TfL weren't happy with it.

 

I like the detail that's gone into it. The little things like vegetation growing up thru the ballast, as is irl.
I'm still disappointed that we don't get the full route but I imagine this was a decision made by dtg.
The way I see it, I can hop on a train at Clapham and ride all the way to Stratford.
This is what a train simulator should represent, rl. Not snippets of lines here and there.
Anyway I will buy it. Just the 378 is worth it, the developer has gone above and beyond, has done something that dtg never have, and that's populate the route with all the trains you should see.
Look at barking on the suffragette line for example, dead as a dodo.

 

I've given up watching preview streams because I personally find the commentary from Matt etc really annoying (I'd much prefer they just uploaded a full run of the route with no commentary as a preview), but I'm really glad that after the stream the main complaint is still the same as when the route was first announced- it's cut short at Willesden.

Personally it doesn't bother me too much. I'd much rather the route exists in it's current state than not at all, and I'll be buying it simply to support high quality routes.

 

Is the 378 compatibile with WCML south, Lioness Line??