It looks like the AI traffic on the GWR remaster is gonna be awesome. The new AI trams are currently awesome. Now I'm only a few minutes into the Mildmay Line stream and I'm loving the traffic at Stratford Station! I've always respected DTG's philosophy of leaving a void where they can't properly represent, but I think this is way better. We have a lot more rolling stock to work with these days too. I love TSW for it's visual realism, but I think an unbranded substitution for what's essentially just scenery traffic is a completely acceptable thing. Sure, it's not the exact Aventra used by *Unnamed National Rail Operator*, and it's an older Tube stock standing in for the Central Line, but when viewed at a distance from the cab of my train, a properly shaped vehicle wearing the proper colors will more than do the job.
I completely agree with this. One of the things that makes London Commuter so great is its busyness. If DTG can continue substituting AI services or reskinned trains, it will enhance the route's immersion.
I'd be very happy with this approach. And with layer selection, people can always turn them off if not wanted.
I agree with this as well! It’s better to have unbranded trains for routes that desperately need AI Traffic then to not have nothing at all. It makes a huge difference.
As long as the player isn't supposed to get too close, I think it's a good move. It should be done in general with all forms of transport imo ,like the Schwebebahn on RRO.
Agree. Unbranded would make life easier too with past liveries if they’ll just be generic looking styles too (think of all the IC225 liveries that have existed now)!
im in full agreement but would go one step further and be happy with non branded player trains. reason being is when i got the AP packs for TSC (PLEASE DONT OPEN THAT CAN AGAIN ANYONE) i didn't even know there was a branding patch until i went back looking for a manual to cold start the 37 and found them. point is they looked right felt right driving them and added a lot of variation to the JT midland routes which is what i got them for. variation and different locos/units. that's what is TSW is lacking and would support anyway of getting more stock into the game if that's what it meant, as DTG have a right mine field to get though in terms of licencing let alone route building for the stock to run on. until then i think that most of the route wish lists are going to be nothing more than a distant dream.
Happy more people seem to be warming up to the idea of unbranded trains now from what I can see here, I remember a good amount of people on the forums had a huge issue with it in the past, and personally I never understood it. As long as the stock is close enough I really couldn't care less about some logos (chances are in my case somebody will create a branding patch on PC anyway, for consoles of course that is a little different). Either way it really does not affect the gameplay that much for me, I would far rather no logos than no train at all. How busy a route can be is one of the biggest things in my eyes, it adds a lot.
Same. I never really cared THAT much about branding, as even in Train Simulator I mainly played the japanese routes and the Metra racetrack route - and none of those has branding. Of course I am happy if it is there, either in the form of mods or official content. Of course licenced stuff is better in that recard that the operator may give the developers reference, opportunities for recordings, etc. And the whole thing just feels more authentic. But I am okay with no branding if there is no other way (like it is the case with Japanese Railways stuff) and I am completely okay with no branding for AI only trains. Unbranded traffic is better than no traffic at all. Only slightly related, but I would also be happy to see more AI only rolling stock for AI only traffic where no proper stock is available yet. Like the AI trams on several routes now. For example AI only subways on both the LIRR and the MBTA routes would be nice to see, since they run right alongside the player's tracks. Or the New Haven line traffic for Harlem Line.
I'm against having unbranded trains. But, its getting to the point where they're necessary. I'd much prefer busier routes with unbranded stock than empty routes without it.
As far as I'm concerned if you have trains of the same family that look the part, you may as well put them in as placeholders that will fill that gap until eventually you might get the real thing. So yeah, I'm fully on board (fully intended pun ) with this.
This post got some traction! I'm glad others agree. I think decisions about AI traffic should be made on a case by case basis. What works best with what is currently available? For Glossop, they just put more Northern 323s inside Manchester. Yeah, Northern runs more than just the 323, but I'd rather see Northern trains than no Northern trains in there. And Piccadilly looks awesome for that reason. If they put some West Midlands 323s inside New Street, I'd be offering the same praise. The above-my-paygrade approach works well. If I was driving the Glossop line in reality and saw an unusual amount of 323s sitting in Piccadilly, I'd assume it was a decision made above my pay grade and I'd focus on not hitting the buffer stops (I don't drive trains for real, just illustrating my point). I absolutely think DTG should continue to focus on making licensed content. It's a huge part of what makes TSW a really cool sim, and I don't want to start driving blank unbranded trains. But if the question is either blank, reasonably substituted scenery trains or a massive void in activity, I'd opt for the blank scenery trains every time.
if you look at glossop for AI, at the time the route came out the only thing you could layer into it was the 66 and the EMR 158 and thats just at piccadilly. even now the only thing you extra you could add is the 390 and 350 at piccadilly. the odd 66 between hyde and guide bridge and the sometime twice a day dowlow ashburys. if you were to add any unbranded stock the only other thing that could go in is a northern 150 to hyde north. i do still scratch my head on how much alcohol was consumed when the idea to do the Glossop branch was thought up. not saying its been made bad but there are much better route options elsewhere rather than spending time on such a one dimensional route with very little scope for AI.
I don't mind unbranded trains. Then again I don't mind unbranded food either. Apart from spaghetti, it's gotta be Heinz.
I will always prefer to see branded trains. However, when it’s not possible I would prefer to have unbranded instead and logical layers so that if we really don’t like them we can switch them off. I do think that for any ‘main feature’ train they should always try to get the branding. Having said that I switch between PC and PS5 and like to play WCMLS (modded with branding on PC) and barely even notice the branding missing on the 350 anymore when they fly past at speed on the PlayStation. It’s only when I’m coming into Euston and there are some parked in other platforms, that it really stands out for me.
Having unbranded stock in official DLC is always open to criticism, it opens a can of worms when someone says "just get the livery from Creators Club" and at that point you come under scrutiny of companies that have specifically said no to the licensing of their official branding finding that there are means to circumvent the license. When LNWR revoked the WCMLs license DTG were very careful not to point customers in the direction of CC as a means of remedy. The more unbranded that appears, the more CC comes under scrutiny in my opinion.
I'd be happy to see unbranded AI stock because you can guarantee within days there will be mods with the relevant logo's for us PC users to download, you only have to look at WCMLS for branded 350 and station signs as an example.
I’m somewhat on the middle ground. Generally, I prefer fully branded trains, but if that isn’t possible at the time then I’ll take an unbranded version so long as that unbranded train has the proper livery, only without the logo branding. The logos could then be retroactively added if a relevant licence was obtained. I’m not a fan of fictional liveries like used in Isle of Wight 2022 though.
I definitely prefer to see branded liveries wherever possible. Where I don't mind unbranded substitutions is where the train is purely meant to be scenery and to make a busy area feel busy. An unbranded livery should always be a part of the scenery on an otherwise fully branded, full fat TSW route. I think it's important to make that distinction. I don't want unbranded routes and blank drivable trains at all.
I would agree, but what about situations like japanese routes, where getting a JR licence seems to be impossible? Should TSW never get japanese content just because there is no JR licence?
I'm all for it. I thought any route that included Stratford station would mean that station would be deserted, but all the unbranded AI on the Mildmay preview means it looks as busy as I know it to be in real life.
Good point. And I agree. I'll answer that by saying they should do the best they can with what is available at that time. If that means no JR logos in exchange for Japanese content.. I'm okay with that. I embrace tradeoffs in most aspects of life.
I would like to see either unbranded or generic DTGX trains (To act as leased power) used in US routes in place for either shortline or industrial freight locos as a stand-in for those instead of reusing Class 1 equipment in shortline/industrial places.
Like if the locomotive was subtly marked with DTGX block letters? I like that idea. I think subtle is the right approach to any fictional substitution.
