What Should Be The Next "expert" Loco?

While I know we will probably not see another "expert" loco in the foreseeable future; in your opinion and if you had to choose one, what would you want to see as the next "expert" loco?

As an American who only moved away from American locos because of the BR-101 "E", I wouldn't dare say an American one now. Maybe the BR 193 Vectron would be my next pick, if I could only choose one. With maybe the Class 350 being a second?

Thoughts?

 

about time we should have these.

and or

 

Those look cool. Class 90 correct?

 

My top picks would be:

• Any steam locomotive
• Any diesel locomotive with an engine room
• GNER Class 373
  
• Class 395
• Class 91

 

Class 395 would be mint

 

TSG is in the making of one and even if its not completely impossible for a uk/us expert loco to be developed by them, the chance is extremely low.
So my guess is that TSG will make an expert version of a unit not ingame like a Railjet, a 412 or a 146.0.
Im not sure if a shunter would make sense like a voith gravita being a rather small and easyer to use loco than for example a Br 101.

 

It is entirely a possibility that it may be the 232, given the fact that even Expert locos do come with settings to turn much of the "expertness" off...and they'd be capitalizing on just the massive amount of people who want it and would get it anyway.

 

first one is class 90
the other is class 91

 

Of course if TSG do another I’m going to say it’s almost certain to be German. If someone else (ie JT) were to do a UK one that would be interesting.

In either case I’d like for it to be something that isn’t necessarily restricted to one type of service, like the 101 is.

If sticking with the theme of it existing in the game already, I would go for a 146 on the German side (widely used across many routes & service diagrams). For the UK I think the 395 is a good pick, the class 47 in close second.

 

I would prefere a br189, es64u2 or a br120 with an expert bistro coach to "complete" the ic set.

Almost sure Tsg will only pick a loco with the ability to drive on many routes as possible. I would like to see the railjet too, but for the 2-3 routes they are not spending time 1 year+ for a new expert train set.

 

I love the idea of a RailJet.

 

Railjet would sell like hot cakes and would probably make the most sense from business perspective.

I still think it's a wasted potential to make expert passenger locos though, what use it is that you can control everything when everything is set in the exact same way for all passenger trains.

For me the best "use" of the slot for expert loco would be something that universally subs onto all freights over the miserable 185 and is older than vectron (which does not fit all eras at all).

BR 189 sounds like a great fit, either in multiple configurations of few operators (if there were any significant differences), or accompanied by 2-3 new freight wagons.

Or an einheitslok pack of BR 140/141/150. Maybe accompanied with a new LFR timetable. While it would probably not sell as well in one go at release, these are locos where you could get the most value of being able to touch everything. If done properly and with enough love, it could steadily sell for 10+ years just like people return to some other older simulators, and these locos were a giant part of german railway history.

 

well, RailJet would make tons of sense... if you did an expert 1116 as part of it, that you could also use for freight... and it IS used for all kinds of freight in Austria, at least... it does everything from ECS to light freight and even heavy freight

 

I rather not see an expert loco. I prefer a regular version of any loco.

 

I really like what I would call a sweet spot between regular and expert loco - like Vectron or 218... regular loco, but have advanced features in case you want to use em, like Vectron can use enhanced e-brake, blended braking etc, 218 has those notches, fast and slow gear etc.

 

I'm not sure that any older loco would be too popular as an expert loco. I like the fault simulation in the Expert 101 a lot, but ultimately it's quite easy to resolve faults, at least if you speak German - just follow the instructions on the screen. With an older locomotive that isn't full of computers, you'd first have to even notice that something is wrong, then get out a PDF full of flow charts and follow those to find out what the fault is... then depending on what happened, you might have to remove, test, and physically replace parts, which TSW isn't equipped to let you do in a satisfying way. Doing all of that, there's much more potential that you might make a mistake and break the loco further than on a more modern loco.

German speakers can get a taste of what troubleshooting an old electric locomotive would be like in this old Deutsche Reichsbahn demonstration film about the class 155.

I'm sure there would be some people who would absolutely adore such a loco, but I don't think it would be anywhere near as many people as like the Expert 101.

I do agree that a freight locomotive would make a lot of sense though. A 145, 152, 185.0 or 185.1, 186, 189, Taurus... any of those would be a good choice in my opinion. A EuroDual or Vectron Dual Mode would be even more interesting, but less universally usable of course.

 

You can play expert locos nonexpertly. The 101 gave an option to either drive it like any other loco or to drive it in expert mode

 

expert Taurus would be a dream come true, as close to driving an actual thing that I can get since my German sucks and becoming an actual driver requires fairly good level of German :'(

 

Class 385
Class 390
Class 801
Class 380
An expert class 37 would sell so well
Class 87
Class 153
Class 150
Class 158

Just my wishlist.

 

I believe these are pretty basic features, pretty much mandatory for basic operation of the train. If I remember correctly, even TSC locos have these kinds of features.

 

Sure, but why would I pay extra for that. It's all nice these expert locos, but they come with a hefty price tag. No thanks, just give me the regular loco version with the regular price tag.

 

with Vectron you have those screens where you can select kN for e-brakes or even traction kN for actual acceleration... with 218 you have that diesel-hydraulic operation and all... 103 has that transformer switch that lets you use more current for like 2mins for greater acceleration and if you exceed that it will trip MCB open... thats what I meant, some locos have more stuff implemented and going on than average stock in this game... and some things you dont have to use, but they are there if you want to play in more advanced way

I guess we can all agree that it takes a bit more effort to set up and control 218 than lets say a 442

so yeah, some locos/MUs are somewhere between a regular easier loco and an expert one... I love Expert 101, and it has all that detail and love and care and everything, but it also takes lots of effort for me, so I only play it sometimes, usually preferring other locos

 

Scratch that. Gotta be the class 91 if it ever gets made.

(A class 156 would be very very nice too with RETB etc)

 

As much as i would like to agree, but no. A multiple unit train is way more work than a single hydraulic loco like the 218.

 

I remember the developers talking about the enablers for them to actually be able to make the 101. They were mainly the fact they had someone in the team that was driving them for a living who was enthusiastic enough to remake the real thing for the sim and was also programming certain aspects of it on its own.

The other aspect was the fact that they had a loco at the end of its lifespan and that DB was quite open for them to simulate every aspect of it.

If this is not enough to cast some doubt on an expert RJ I am happy to give my 2 ct on a commercial aspect as well

While I agree that it would be a highly sought after consist and would be bought a lot, I also remember the uproar in this community when TSG presented their price tag for the E101. In the case of the 101 basically all modelles were available, apart from the cab car. In the case of the RJ they would have to model 5 different Waggons plus upgrade the 1116. Can you imagine what hell would break loose in these forums if the devs quote a price even higher then the E101?! If I would be the dev I would not want to do that. People would “demand” a normal RJ, would claim money grab and all sorts of personal attacks would probably follow…

I would much more hope for something in the fright department. Realistically it would be of a similar age as the 101, ideally also usable as a passenger loco (it was done, also in Germany around the time the 101 was developed). The nice thing with a fright loco would also be the fact that it could simply sub into existing and be tt from the start!

 

I didnt mean it from a development standpoint, I meant the things you do when driving those things in-game... 218 has quite a lot of things when you start and then drive, compared to 442 where you just insert reverser, turn on safety stuff and off you go

 

Ah ok, right. It's probably easier for the driver in a modern MU than with the old lady.

 

has nothing to do with enjoyment tho... it was interesting for me to learn the quirks of 218 (like that "Heating" actually meant "power supply", and that once you turned that on, notch 2 already had revs of notch 7, so when accelerating, you could just go straight from 2 to 7... and all that stuff with maintaining speed is quite something), but then, 442 is ideal for beginners (along with 406 was my first ever train in TSW), cos it is very easy to set up and drive, and is downright perfect for learning PZB - accelerates and brakes in a nimble fashion, makes it easy for you to learn to react to PZB stuff and such... like I used 442 and 406 to learn PZB

speaking of 218, recently did some runs, still nice

 

My vote would be for the SD40. Mostly because it's used on so many routes with multiple types of services you can perform with it.

 

dunno about US locos done in expert... that would basically mean you would have to do them with not just more realistic physics and such, but also, first and foremost, with working PTC, which is a problem... we only have ATC/ACSES on NEC routes / LIRR / Harlem, but other ones like Metrolink DLCs and Peninsula Corridor, plus basically all US freight, only has alerter implemented and not actual PTC

I mean, US loco without PTC (or whatever equivalent safety stuff they use) I wouldnt consider expert O my opinion

 

Well I didn't say it'd be easy, I just said it'd be my pick.

 

I mean, thats basically my only "gripe" with Metrolink/Caltrain in this game, that you only have Alerter and PTC is only implemented in the way that you activate switch/breaker/lever to get pts, but are otherwise purely cosmetic and not really implemented... like, the stuff is not enforced in the cab at all

 

Considering the German safety systems and their quirks I'm kinda surprised they haven't implemented it yet.

In the vein of 'tons of services on multiple routes', while I may be physically assaulted for saying this, another good one would be the Class 66. Harry at least, would be happy.

 

Well, we know that TSG wants to make another Expert loco, but I haven't heard this intention from any of the other developers, so we should be expecting a german loco. As it was said here before, older locomotives might be complicated as an Expert loco, as you can't simulate fixing mechanical problems in TSW. If a system in the BR 101 breaks, you reset the breaker or cut off the affected system, but on something like the ÖBB 1020? Getting out the virtual sanding paper to clean the contacts? I don't think so.
But I think the Expert DLCs bring the great opportunity of bringing back Steam to TSW. Whilst you can't really simulate faults on a steam locomotive either, if you don't want to have a Mechanic Mode, Steam locomotives are very complex in their basic operation. Pressure management, many mechanical systems that can't be just turned on or off, but can be regulated by the amount of steam they're getting and the concentration a player has to put into driving a well simulated Steam loco, might be enough to validate the Expert status.
Now I know, Steam is a controversial theme, and the three locos that DTG delivered were rather mediocre. I think there is still a lot of potential in this area, and a reworked Simugraph version for a better and more realistic experience could really pay off. I don't need a historical route for a Steam train, just like the Flying Scotsman DLC. I enjoy driving historical rolling stock, no matter if it's normal services back in the day or historical service today.

 

Not a 218 quirk, you'll find it on all old locos. Historically it was purely heating feature (specifically, steam heating). When we switched to electric heating, the same power could be used suddenly for many other things as well, but it was still controlled by the same heating switch I think on vectron you can also see that it draws a little bit more current with the heating on.

 

Expert Class 91 or Expert Class 802 would be my choices.

 

Maybe they do an Expert BR120, hopefully with some InterRegio Coaches.
Personally, I would really like a BR140 or BR151 or maybe a BR 150.

 

Agree with others above that a modern German freight loco seems the most natural fit depending access.

Freight gives a ton of usability and more interesting ZDE stuff. Modern because that gives the greatest amount of (logical) substitutions and makes fault simulation feasible. Fault fixing on something like a 140 is a much more involved process than flipping breakers on modern, computer-controlled locos and I don’t see TSW pulling that off.

In the spirit of the expert 101 being a re-touch of the original 101, I wouldn’t mind an expert 185(.2). If desired, a 185.0 would switch things up and fill a void. The closely related, but technically quite different 186 would also be great. Of course, the Siemens offering, a 189, would be fantastic. I wouldn’t go for a Vectron as TSW’s is already very good, so I’d appreciate the expert line tackling a different loco.

Weird thought out of nowhere, but I wouldn’t rule out a 120. Given their intimate access to a 101 driver etc., it wouldn’t surprise me if they have similar access for a 120. That would also build up nicely with the expert coaches/cab car already ready to go.

 

Lukas confirmed that there was a project for a "Expert german loco"

and which train i will really see in "expert" there a 5 train for me

- Br 193,248 could be a big pack for expert pack could included new liveries MRCE,NS,SBB (Br 193 liverie) ,Rhein cargo,Press (BR 248 liveries) why could be interesting to make Vectron Expert

1- for more diversity in TSW on Diesel route and electric a Bimode locomotive too in germany can make so many different service Shunter,IC,Freight services (short,long)

- BR 189 it could be a new locomotive and one of my favorite locomotive in TSW could be added in the game in expert,I think it could bring a different gameplay, some special features but the sounds of the 189 are also very special.

(Livery could be included DB,DB railion,MRCE)

BR 152: the BR 152 could be a interesting locomotive for TSW and if it come in a expert pack it could be really amazing It is a locomotive built by Siemens classified ES 64 F locomotive, at the end of the 90s and until 2005, I love this locomotive it has particular sounds and specificities also.

- BR 408,407 XD

- BR AC2s locomotives.
the BR 146.2 and 185.2 would need an expert pack with the doppelstockwagen but also the wagons the 2 locomotives have so many sound problems that releasing an Expert pack would be really incredible on the Traxx AC2

what could be included the Pack

BR 146.2 - BR 146.5 (IC) BR 185.2 - BR 185.5

- DBpza 780 Expert,DBpbzfa 766,767.2 Expert

New coaches DBpbzfa 762.0 expert expert,DBpza 781 expert, DBpza 782.2 Expert,DBpza 787.2 expert,DBpbzfa 768.2

it could included Zacns VTG expert wagons,Habbins Expert,Laaers expert (GATX - DB),Eanos Expert (DB,DB Cargo+VTG),Kijls expert),sggmrss 90 Expert (included new liveries),Tadgs expert,Shimmms expert,

- New wagon i think could included 2 new wagon : Tagnpps wagon (VTG,GATX,Transcéréales livery) ,the seconds news wagons could be Zagkks wagons (Neutral livery,VTG,GATX)

(This pack is for all Expert train i suppose could be coming only in freight and not the IC2 pack)

 

Haven't heard any news on this yet but i would love to see an older Electric Loco getting the Expert treatment, a DB Br 151 Expert, that would be nuts, or even an old Diesel (DB Br 232 anyone?)

Although thats what im hoping for im quite sure it'll be the BR 193 Vectron.

In continental Europe they are pretty much everywhere these days, which would give them a huge potential of introducing it to pretty much all german routes represented in TSW. Also its used in freight and long distance passenger trains, also sees her use in regio traffic at various places.

The Vectron already has quite a deep Simulation compared to other TSW rolling stock, so building on this would fit the bill aswell. Suspension also has already implemented ( and its one of the few locos where i find the suspension to be spot on ).

So im betting my money on a expert Vectron, additionally with new expert wagons (or even expert versions of freight wagons ? )

The SKW Gameplay pack will also include layers for the Flixtrain... Hauled by the Br 193 aswell, so already a TSG related route where she could stretch her legs.

 

I have the Expert 101, but reading this I am actually looking forward to more FlixTrain Vectron action

 

What would be the "Expert-Features" in those you want to see? I mean they are not the display monsters like the 101 where lots of the expert stuff happens. The cabs are simple on both. The 232 will definitely not have a walkable engine room or the electrical compartment (just way too much polygons and work to do). A modern loco can be way more "expert" in game than the older ones.

 

The Tauris. Could be used with a DB, OBB, MRCE and more liveries. It's suitable for passenger and freight. The DB and MRCE ones, can be combined with the IC coaches of the BR101 pack. Railjet services are also a possibility with a new livery and OBB coaches and there are even more options.

 

It should be something steam IMO. I'd like to see an expert West Country/Battle of Britain class pack, featuring all preserved examples of the class, in both rebuilt and unrebuilt conditions.

 

Thomas and Diesel

 

expert öbb railjet (BR 182/taurus) with those coaches and that taurus styled cab car would be a dream come true

 

hell to the yeah... or even Vectron and cab car aka RailJet / Vectrain

 

i.e. correct Vorbereitungs and Abschluss-dienste, which you can't simulate if you don't make a walk-through engine compartment. Give us the ability to check oil, turn off or on single electrical components, the ability to i.e. turn a dead 151 into a cab car if you have two. That's IRL possible but I sure bet it ain't in TSW if it ever comes out.

Let's take a V90 as example, I know that loco better than any other rn. Even if all electric systems fail you you have the ability to come back home. You have a pneumatic failsafe for the brake, a mechanic failsafe to control the engine. You will clear the route, even if everything is broken. And an expert loco would have the ability to use those backup failsafe methods. You may not need them, but they're there in case you need them. Same in the 101, you can follow the real "Störsuchliste" if you want, because it's simulated. If you make a 151 on that level that you can use the real Störliste, it qualifies as expert, because everything is simulated. Also, as Evolinox#6389 and noir stated, Expert isn't really defined by displays, more the (fault) simulation, great sound and the ability to do everything you can in there as you could in the real life counterpart (EbuLa excluded)
151, could be fun with expert, same as a 232, but only if done well and everything is there. Including the ability to access all that's needed
Oh and the 151 fault list is really long, or so I heard, which means, there are a lot of opportunities to make an expert loco
And don't get me started at exchanging fuses

Edit: Typo

 

Vectron would be nice too. NightJet can be nice too, can be used in Austria, Germany and the Netherlands if DTG make the correct routes.

 

Under Expert i would understand a truly in depth simulation of the real thing. For example on the 151 all mechanical components are represented as you would find them irl. Fuses and switches would be all represented and functional, so my doing could result in it being not operational or even taking damage. Easy example would be to forget the fans, motors will overheat resulting in them not being operational for a time being. Even on an old Diesel you would find a lot of levers, switches fuses etc. I dont think Expert dont have to necessarily mean computers in my mind, although i get that there are just more options to play with.

Im not a train driver, but the Expert 101 brings you way close to feeling like one and actually controlling the real thing rather then a model, surely this could be translated to some older more mechanical type of loco. With the 1020 and 194 we already came quite close to it.

Anyway. Taking your post as an hint (even if this wasn't intended) im staying with my bet on this.

Even tho thinking about it, an Euro Dual would also be an awesome addition... All the options