Being the devils advocate, equally I don't think it's professional advocating for a company with a track record such as theres for not improving and growing as a company in terms of quality and evident shoddy work. If something deserves appraisal then fair play, but to give them such a glowing review and positive review when quite the opposite is true is rather an absurd thing to do.
It does work both ways. But I guess there lays the question: We may think their work isn't up to standard, but do they?
Going through the previous couple of pages, what did I miss? Have we had confirmation Rivet built or been involved with the route? What has Rissik been saying about it and/or Rivet? Do we have a link to any such statements?
Don’t know if Rivet have been involved directly but the link to what Rissik had to say about Rivet is here fella… https://www.rivet-games.com/about
No confirmation of their involvement at all, let’s hope their involvement is minimal unless they’ve changed their ways.
Thanks for that. Well I see CCC maybe being a casual purchase once it comes out and the early adopters have scrutinised it and the trains for Rivetness. Although it won’t get answered, needs everyone to pop the question on the Q&A as to what if any involvement Rivet had with the project.
It frustrates me that the link between the two companies is clear, however they don’t acknowledge that when Rivet are involved, they need to explain to the community how they will ensure standards are higher moving forwards. Shame they can’t outsource to JT or TSG, although then again, these guys aren’t previously part of the DTG family.
Well TSG do seem to be involved as a second party or so they say, but as regards JT I would rather DTG leave them alone to pursue their own goals!
On the recent charity stream hosted by Matt I did ask what had happened to Rivet and was told that they are ‘still involved with a number of projects’…I’m guessing after the debacle with WCMLS DTG are reluctant to say which ones tho….
Whilst the new screenshots shared yesterday are slightly reassuring, they don’t appear to have touched Cardiff's lighting. Which is a concern, we will see when it’s released.
Is this Rivet drama still going on! If the route looks good and the trains look and sound as they should, does it matter if they were involved or not? Wouldn't it be prudent to wait for its release first and see what it is actually like? DTG are under no liberty to tell us if they were involved.
Not a popular opinion: such short/shortened/trimmed routes (NLL, CCC, possibly including the new Frankfurt route) are only worth shopping with a 50% discount
No, they aren’t. However, people, paying customers, have the right to voice their concerns. Especially if something is sub-par. Everything rivet has made so far has left a lot to be desired. If rivet are involved and history repeats itself, you have a choice. Hold out in hopes it gets updated, or refund it. people have every right to be concerned.
Perhaps their Dreamweaver license also lapsed. Or alongside coding, the web authoring is outsourced to Romania/India/China..!
WCML South looked very neat in the teaser pictures, but we all saw how it turned out. We've also been asking if the sounds have been reworked, again dodging this key question.
I never said customers didn't have a right to voice concern. However there are no customers as it hasn't even been released yet! If it's good I'll buy it, if it's not I won't, regardless of who may or may not be involved in making it.
Everyone who owns TSW is a customer - whilst the DLC isn’t out yet, they’re prospective customers for the add on. People are allowed to haven an opinion on their track record and have concerns about how that may or may not translate into their future involvement. I also didn’t say that you said customers don’t have the right to voice their concerns. However - calling it drama, when it’s voicing concerns is disingenuous. T what I will agree with you on, though, is that DTG do not have to say who developed it, or who had a hand in making it. Would it be good for the interest of transparency? Sure. But they don’t have to do it. Personally I’m going to buy this, as it’s a local route which will be nice to see finally digitally represented. However, if it’s in poor condition I will be refunding it and waiting until it’s fixed or gets massively reduced. I’ve seen enough inaccuracies for me to question the quality, regardless of rivets involvement. Even if recent screenshots have helped reassure me a little bit. No one will fully know what the route is like until it releases in two weeks. That’s my opinion.
I can't wait for the TfW route. But I want to wait for the Preview stream before I even judge. But hearing slight rumours that Rivet may be involved is very concerning. Every Rivet product I can think of has been a disgrace. Again preview stream will tell us who has done it by face value. Maybe Rivet have somehow changed and bringing top tier products- That be a miracle. But this route has been known since TSW 5 came out and seems like it has had work put into it considering the long wait time so we shall see in our own eyes when the preview happens.
The question is: would DTG do anything to fix horrible and unacceptable sounding and physic of the Class 150? If the Class 150 in the final product still has a very bad sounding and physic just like WCL, I believe player wouldn't glad to see that. Some rumors mentioned the involvement of Rivet, despite all these are just rumors for now, but it can make player worry about the quality of this route since Rivet has a reputation of making products with many issues and we still remember what happened to WCMLS and many others Rivet products. Nobody want to see the first Welsh route in TSW end in failure due to its quality issue, but the quality issue can't be exposed until Preview stream later this month, and before that, we can only wait and guess.
Anyone with any sense would wait for a preview stream. That's what I will be doing. Not all their products have been a disgrace. The two IOW routes were perfectly decent as was Berminaline. The only route I would say approaches being a disgrace is WCL and even then the word disgrace is over the top.
You really think disgrace is over the top? Bro really? FCL, they F'd up on that, WCML South, F'd up on that. WCL F'd up on that.
Yes I do. We don't even know what their involvement was with WCML, they weren't the only third party involved. FCL wasn't great but it is now decent.
Completely agree there. No one cares about the development of routes being outsourced (Not proven, but if my theory is correct), but it's who it's outsourced too. And with a track record like Rivets that is why there would be such a backlash. As I keep saying, if WCMLS is anything to go by that is what me may have in store with Cardiff City. I've made my feelings very clear on this so there is not much more I can add that I've not already said in previous comments in the thread.
I think most people are. I definitely am, however, the inaccuracies in the screenshots are a cause for concern.
Oher devs release their dlcs with major problems too. But Rivet is famous for letting every customer know, that they dont give a fu. about patch and fix the reported bugs.
This is what I mean. I just say it again, it made no sense whatsoever handing over the reigns to Rivet. Yes theorganist I agree we don't know of the WCML Rivet had but from playing it, looking at it etc lot of it was Rivet it seemed. I shall bang on about WCML in that forum not here. But either way I am still excited just hopefully It's not an absolute mess, timetable is correct, pathing, timings etc. The routes offer amazing Scenery. I might go to Cardiff myself and try the line out next week possibly.
This. What I don’t understand is why some people are just so happy to (relentlessly) defend DTG. I really hope my initial impressions from the screenshots are wrong, I DO NOT want this DLC to flop. I sincerely don’t. Just got a bad taste from past experiences and some details in the screenshots, just… yeah…. I really hope I’m wrong.
Apologies. I ain't reading 4 pages to catch up. All I'm saying is these screenshots look amazing! Can't wait for this release in a few weeks!
I don't understand why people feel the need to jump on the hate Rivet bandwagon every time either. Even the slightest mention of them potentially being involved has once again steered the conversation to Rivet's potential, and unconfirmed, involvement.
I think there's just alot of resentment and they've lost alot customers after rivets screw ups. They need to up their quality fast or they're not going to match the pace and survive in this fast evolving industry.
Obviously, their reputation isn't good among the community, I don't deny that. But to yet again turn another thread into a Rivet discussion thread is not needed. That's not what I'm here for, I'm here for the route, not the developer.
I'll say this much, I'd rather it is a subject that's brought up so DTG know another route like WCMLS, and Rivets involvement (which I suspect is more then they will tell us) and all of its issues are unacceptable and the decline in overall quality won't be accepted (I speak for myself at least). If others want to lap up that sub par quality UK content that's upto them, but I know this game has the potential to offer better and want to make sure it lives upto that.
There does seem to be an obsession. And then if you question why you get accused of relentlessly defending DTG! Most odd. From what I've seen so far in the screenshots it looks good, but let's obsess about Rivet.
Disclaimer: I am not defending Rivet in any capacity whatsoever and this should not be misconstrued otherwise. (Not directed to any particular individual). Again, I understand there's discontent around Rivet and them potentially being involved in this route. But this thread isn't for that. I'm here to discuss the route, not the developer. What can be said about them that hasn't already? Why has yet another thread spawned a discussion about Rivet? What is it with this obsession? If they are involved in any capacity, so be it. I'll still be buying it, because at the end of the day, I'm choosing to. I'll feedback on the route as and when necessary, what they decide to do with that I couldn't care less, as long as I'm able to drive the trains and enjoy myself.
Could not give a monkeys who built what, be it Rivet Dovetail or some outfit from outer Mongolia, if it's something I want, I'll buy it, so as much as I can fully respect anyone's opinions, I truly don't care about any of them, the only opinion I deem worthy of any product I buy is my own, nobody will be affected by my decision and I will never be affected by theirs, so this never ending circle of virtually slapping Rivet is ultimately pointless and will change absolutely nothing.......
I agree why is it so important that every detail is right I've seen the screenshots they look like cardiff. Routes will never be perfect and people need to remember that.
For the record - I didn’t bring rivet up initially, I’m just pointing out that their reputation isn’t great and adding to the conversation that was being had at the time. I’m also pointing out, that, from what I’ve seen of the screenshots leaves me with a bit to be desired. There are inaccuracies here and there that, for some reason, I can’t quite put my finger on, yet other glaring errors like the lighting that’s been mentioned a few times. I reiterate the point that I want this dlc to succeed. I really do. But I’m worried that it will fall flat and I hope I’m wrong. Regardless of whether rivet is involved though, people should be allowed to have healthy discussions about their feelings and concerns. No one has to agree with that, but that’s their prerogative.
Slight change of subject anyway. one thing I do hope they got right is the signals - now this may be pedantic more so than the lighting issue. But here goes. In TSC the signals at Cardiff central displayed the wrong routes, but I haven’t tested Ninian park for a while so can’t say for sure about that. Given that (west) of Cardiff there is only two real routes you can take if you’re not going to canton, I hope they got them right this time around. N: for Ninian Park B: for Barry (Grangetown; dingle Road and Penarth in this case) in this case I’d feel this might be slightly nitpcky; but part of me hopes they get it right.
I have been very quiet in 2025 so far, on this forum at least, however I feel that the flow I had in 2024 is going to be continued here and that is the topic of Rivet, once again. Presently, I am seeing a well presented route, which on the whole seems to be coming together nicely and offers something other than a SE electrified commuter run which gives it extra brownie points. And so, as long as this seeming quality is carried into the release itself I don't think it matters who made what on the route. However, if there are issues to the scale of WCL, EDN, FCL, WCCL something has to be brought into question and then it is down to DTG to resolve this issue and have the discussions with the right people, as lessons must, at some point, be learnt. For the meantime there is absolutely nothing anyone here can do.
Maybe I wasn’t being clear with my input - this is my concern. Regardless of whether it’s rivet, or DTG, skyhook etc. Personally I don’t give a monkeys who’s developed it, as long as it’s a good standard. But if it is rivet, and it is a poor show (again,) then as you say lessons must be learned, if they haven’t been already. The concerns that I’ve raised may be pedantic to some, but those are issues that I can see and for the sake of being a broken record - certain things they really should have got right. IIRC there was concerns over the lighting on the WCML. I didn’t really care for it (the route) all that much myself and haven’t really touched it since launch. But again - I personally want this route to succeed, because I hope it will lead to more Welsh routes. Eagerly awaiting the preview stream.
