I think it's people trying to read tea-leaves regarding comments made by our illustrious and, these, days illusive EP- several whole groups of content (Steam, US Freight, etc) are no longer in active development, presumably due to poor sales, and some people fear networks will be next on the chopping block if Cardiff craters. The route itself is looking pretty dire IMO and went from Day 1 to at least wait for the first patch. Just to add fuel to the fire, i wonder if DTG is short on developers because they were all busy building that exciting new add-on we learned about at Christmas? Ya, know, the one they swore wouldn't ever detract from the core product lol
Ah yes that really really hyped up DLC. I won't even mention it. Thing is do Dovetail pay attention to these winter surveys and I don't understand why they don't release the winter survey results so we can see what people want and then we can compare what we are getting.
Well this route is an easy pass for me. The quality is just not there. Rivet should not be involved in making any future routes. The fact that DTG couldn't even directly answer if Rivet was involved tells me all I need to know. It's a shame because network style routes are cool but this route does not feel complete. It lacks polish. The scenery is rather poor in some parts and meh in others. The 150 is terrible. It just feels like DTG don't listen to feedback and continue to bury their heads in the sand.
I was previously on the fence on this one but now I’m afraid it’s a hard No from me. A good idea poorly implemented. When you compare it to Mildmay line, it’s chalk and cheese (even taking into account the blurry textures which I don’t think is the fault of the developer - I haven’t had the chance yet to check out today’s update so hopefully this has been addressed.). I don’t even care whether it is a Rivet route. The poor quality is there to see, no matter who did it.
That is a very good point. At least with Mildmay Line the route looks fantastic, you can see the amount of passion and dedication that has gone into the route. Do feel sorry for Johannes as he wanted to do the whole thing but nope DTG had to put a stop to that which probably messed some things up for him. Then you see the TfW route... Lots of short cuts took in this route, like the teleport to the opposite platform, like wtf is that. That is bloody embarrassing, this is called Train Sim World for a bloody reason so you can go and explore not to use bloody portals to teleport to the opposite platform cause DTG or Rivet couldn't be LOVE*** to create the tunnel.
omg that bloody sensor thing I didnt even swear I just put and F in it and then those star things. Why is it so sensitive
matthewgoddard510 Totally agree. The Mildmay Line is a wonderful and realistic-feeling environment to be in. It's immersive even though it's not the most exciting route to drive due to the low speed limits. The Suffragette Line applies equally. On both you find yourself leaving the stations, having a look around, finding some nice place to sit and watch passing trains or ducks. Likewise Just Trains' two routes. There's more to it than it just being a train drive. You feel like you're there and can do some exploring. I love the signal box by the beach on Preston - Carlisle, I've spent a bit of time there watching trains, the working level-crossing with seagulls overhead and the sound of the sea in quiet moments. Teleporting just to get to the other platform is hopefully not a sign of shortcuts to come on TSW routes. The Cardiff Network is just a small part of rail operations in that area, a line or two up some of the valleys would have made this a Day 1 purchase but as it stands I'll get it when it hits 50% off in the sales.
The most annoying thing is leaving cardiff central concourse and putting doors that don't exist in real life apparently it's too hard which is ridiculous surely your main focus should be make all the stations as detailed as possible. Trains to the valleys never go from platform 4 but they can't be asked assigning proper platforms. It's my local line so I will get it but there isn't much quality across the route there just using it as a cash grab for people who live in Wales hopefully just trains make the north wales coastal but they probably won't.
I have not got it yet, Will get it soon just got other things to Prioritise at the moment. I do love that addition on the JT route having trainspotting sides to spawn at, the scenery is just so 10000% accurate as I have travelled on the WCMLOS line many times normally when Going from Crewe to Glasgow/Edinburgh and oh my it is amazing mate! I will promise to get the Mildmay Line soon. If I was a Developer at Rivet Games or DTG I be ashamed of myself putting DLC releases out in such a state, yet you see JT and Johannes who are excelling and not letting customer expectations down. Where DTG and Rivet are and it is hard to watch. We have to wait awhile of JT to release routes but tbh I am happy with that because it means we get outstanding quality! I don't know what is going on at all with Dovetail Games, doing all these shortcuts, not putting effort into there routes like they used to. BCC got released in TSW 3 didn't it? Imagine if we had the TfW route swap with the BCC, I bet you it be longer than 20 miles and if we were to have BCC today I bet you it be smaller than it is now. That is how low Dovetail have got. Do they listen to us and see we hate these routes cut short, passion has clearly gone. The more they keep tarnishing there reputation the less sales they will get and we don't want that. Why are we paying £30 for a route that was announced in August and has took to March to release and yes still is not in the quality to be released but it is being released anyway. Worth £20 at the most. This is not just about Rivet being included, but Dovetail not taking responsibility and not holding Rivet for there actions on releasing poor routes. Do they have some sort of contract with them? It just makes no sense at all and all of Dovetail are quiet about it as well. That is my lovely rant over. The route shouldn't be released at all. Looks like it has just been produced in the last 7 days and heavily rushed to me.
I've been hoping for an announcement that Rivet are working on their own new UK route. Which would at least mean that the big summer release will be DTG and possibly another developer other than Rivet. It does rather beg the question, if DTG aren't doing any content for TSC and every one of their releases is a (silent) partnership. Why are routes made under those partnerships getting shorter? And why is virtually everything released part of the old LMS region (Cardiff lines excluded)? It's better than a load of releases of routes through Chatham (a la TSC) but it leaves many of us wondering when we'll see some TSW content in our part of the UK.
What I heard anyway. Remember before Johannes got involved with Dovetail he was doing the whole thing I think. But should have said don’t quote me on it but it’s what I heard. Could be wrong. Apologies if so
Johannes was doing much more of London at one point (though not for official release), I don’t think there was any expectation for it to come out in one go, or at all. Obviously modelling the city scenery & general track path is one thing, getting it all laid & detailed is another. I don’t think DTG interjected at any point & told him not to, infact in the stream it came across as his idea to cut it where it was. There probably was some discussion about being realistic with scope, but I doubt we’ll hear any of that.
Valleys trains can and do go from platform 4… admittedly not all the time… but I’ve taken a 158 down the VOG to Bridgend from 4 before now… now they did swap it for a 150 on the way back at CDF. what they can’t do is go from 3.
Asside from tall buildings and landmarks. Surely the number 1 priority would be, to get everything close to the trackside looking spot on. Then work outwards? Ie, make these prioritised areas make sense. Make sure buildings dont have squeaky clean textures. If the panned 150 from WCL is making a comeback, make sure the improvements are instantly night and day noticeable. I dont get it. Short networks are well received when the world is immersive, like Goblin and like Mildmay. If the route has little going on visually, the train is sub par to average and its 20 miles of stopping. Ofcourse this will flop.
I think DTG are banking on not being able to give the 150 a good run to fully test its physics. I still haven’t given the stream a good watch yet. So I’ll happily be corrected.
If only the 153 was the main loco, the only good thing about the route really. Although some scenery is terrible.
The issue there though is tracks & trains make much more noticeable noise at slow speeds. It’s less whooshing & more distinctive clatter & squealing. Also the whole stop start nature introduces the need for varying levels of feedback from the train, which the 150 is totally lacking. If anything I think a route like this is going to make the 150 sound & feel much worse than something like WCL.
The issue is, without the 231/756 (which will eventually go to mainline ops when the 398s come in and 150s go) the main traction for these routes is the 150s…. The 153 just go wherever they’re needed. Much like the 150s I guess. But the 150 is the main traction for better or for worse.
The one thing I'd like to get across in the event it doesn't sell well (we don't know how it will sell yet, that is something that will unravel from next week), is that it isn't because people dislike the type of route, it's because they don't approve of the quality. I feel to some extent players are held at ransom if they don't buy content like this, because we get the "oh it didn't sell well so we won't be doing anymore", much like steam or the BR era... It's not that people don't want to buy them, it's because of quality issues and the two should never get mixed up. I think a clear distinction between content not selling well because of quality issues VS players not buying content because it doesn't interest them. DTG seem to have left the BR era stuff because it didn't sell as well as they'd like, but Just Trains seem to have really put the effort and work into a BR era routes and made a success of it. So I'd argue quality sells, bad quality doesn't.
OH I’VE JUST NOTICED! THEY GOT THE SIGNAL ROUTING CORRECT! Pukka. 10/10, day one purchase. I’ve changed my mind!
Hopefully fps should be good, hopefully it's not anywhere like Mildmay as i hope the fps is closer to 60 than 15 Edit: 15 fps will result in consoles crashing
Thats me right there. This was announced on the back of Goblin. Which was an impressive and well received Network route. The announcement of something similar with diesel, and the potential for a proper 150 had my interest straight away, but I couldnt be less interested in what its turned out to be.
Sadly combine that with the element that spread the gospel that, "Oh but we must buy it because otherwise the developers will be upset and go off in a huff no longer visiting the forum." Or, "If this route fails DTG will run out of money and TSW will collapse." Then it will probably shift enough copies to hit the break even or projected Month One sales, so they will carry on pushing out mediocre routes outsourced to Rivet, and trains where a five minute conference call with the party making the other one could have given both excellent physics and sounds instead of one being a travesty.
Punters were a bit confused, can tell you that much. I was more worried that control would send it up to aberdare at the time hahah
SierraOscar95 Very well said. I agree 100%. I love network routes! Most of my time in TSW lately has been on Mildmay/Suffragette occasionally branching onto WCMLS (would do more here if route hopping from WCMLS to Mildmay was enabled and the timetable was less buggy lol) or SEHS. Also recently a lot of LIRR 2, which is a great network now in its improved form. Cardiff just doesn't look like quality right now. Please don't take my lack of a day 1 purchase as anything other than a reflection of that particular work.
This is what frustrates me. I've sat down to try out WSR rail and the 33 after the update. And it's absolutely beautiful and I had a great time (until I spad because I was too busy admiring the scenery but I digress). There couldn't be a more stark contrast between the work of Art WSR has become thanks to Liam and Mattel (lol ). But seriously WSR just seems to get better!
Watching the stream (finally) with my AirPods - I don’t think the 150 sounds as atrocious. It could still be better, definitely. But it’s not gut wrenchingly bad.
AWS is completely wrong though. That needs fixing. Don’t know why that couldn’t have been reused from the 153…. But I digress….
Yeah I thought that. Still using the old aws sounds for some reason. Surely they have a catalogue of aws sounds by now
Just managed to watch the stream. I buy most UK routes if not all, and a nice commuter, stop-start route is right up my street. Even better with a DMU, something we haven’t really had for a long time in TSW! One of the comments on the stream by Matt was they looked at Realtime Trains not just for the timetable (which is busy) which is a positive but for good start and end points. I think it’s a big miss not to have ended up going to Caerphilly - more journey opportunities and you could have ended up with Coryton-Penarth and Caerphilly-Penarth and return as two full end to end timetabled runs (yes I know the line doesn’t stop at Caerphilly carries on to Bargoed and Rhymmey) both similar length 35 minute runs. I think that was a let down. But apart from that I think the network style of the route works well. The 150 sounds are still not up to scratch, a lot better than West Cornwall, so there’s a definite improvement, I noticed it had the 153 brake release sound. Thankfully the model is really good. The 153 is the star of this route. The whole Rivet discussion is irrelevant to me. I think the negativity towards them on here is frankly a huge overreaction / bordering on a weird obsession with them. I’m embarrassed when I read some of the comments towards them, there’s real people behind that company that have feelings. I think the constant Rivet bashing, and jokes at their expense became old and boring a long time ago, it’s wore a bit thin now. For the record, I love WCML South and Fife Circle two of my top routes I play. Whereas, West Cornwall Local to be honest one of the few DLC’s I’ve regretted buying, I make up my mind on an individual route basis, not just because it looks good to be seen to fit in to bash Rivet. There’s a few clues that this is a Rivet timetable, although I’m happy to corrected. The 30 second station stops even at Cardiff Central and Queen Street were a giveaway. All I’ll say if the feeling against Rivet really is that strong, vote with your wallet. It’s a Day One purchase for me, I’m quite happy with what I saw. As I said in another thread, look at forum users who have said that they aren’t getting it and or constantly bash Rivet and then look at the feedback thread on the first day, you’ll find the same users in there!
still think that there is *some* valid criticism of rivets work, and given Matt’s reluctance to say their involvement only confirms that. IMO. I agree people need to be voting with their wallets. I certainly will be. I’m not picking this up. Not at full price. There’s just too much wrong with it to justify the price. (Yes, I know, inflation, inflation) I do like the route, but there’s just so many frustratingly missing details. Some of the route looks spot on, but some of the mistakes that I’m seeing shouldn’t have been made. Matt mentioned beta testers were from the area, what input did they have? Why didn’t they bring up the issues with central not being properly modelled? Why would they not bring up the teleporting to opposite platforms? Did they bring these up, if they did, were they shut down? Who knows. it’s frustrating because I want to get this day one, I just can’t justify it.
If it's anything like WCMLs, based off what was being said at the time, lots of issues were raised and logged, and then not actioned ever/for a while. Liam then came in and saved it - whether there are still Jira tickets to action or not, I wouldn't know
Absolutely, there’s nothing wrong with valid criticism at all. I do myself when I provide feedback in that part of the forum. But I can restrain myself to be constructive and not abusive. My personal bugbear is timetables, I like them to be as realistic and perfect. That’s what fuels the realism of TSW for me, for others obviously it’s different. DTG aren’t going to tell exactly what tree Rivet placed where, what building they placed where. And I’m happy not knowing. It doesn’t bother me to that extent. However, what we are seeing against Rivet, is targeted abuse, not only that but at individuals at the company. That’s out of order. You see it on the TSC Discord server, whenever Rivet is mentioned, unnecessary comments. It must be seen to be cool to jump on that bandwagon and be part of that running joke and that clique that does it. I, personally don’t get it. It’s unnecessary, nasty and vindictive. Maybe I need a sense of humour transplant.
If people want to defend Rivet you're welcome to do so that is your right and your welcome to have an alternative opinion. What I personally won't stand for is saying it's targeted abuse or bullying on here. If you build sub standard content and make no attempt to improve your work which is full of issues, constantly make the same mistakes even when people take time to tell you what the bugs/issues are, and don't strive to improve your issues and intentionally bury your head in the sand as a developer and charge people a fair amount of money for your content, then quite frankly you bring it on yourself and people are within their rights to vent such frustrations. If people want to lap that up, that is entirely upto them. But don't start labelling people bullies or call them abusive for venting valid frustration. The misconception that the comments come from a malicious and unwarranted place on the forum really grinds my gears.
Oh there are plenty of munchkins roaming these virtual halls trying to make others believe their own warped logic that they have convinced themselves is true when in truth know absolutely naff all, it's great watching them screaming into the void thinking that the voice they can hear is everyone agreeing with them, and then getting drunk on what they think is power and influence over everyone else only for the bubble to burst and it finally dawns on them the only voice they heard was the echo of themselves screaming into the void, just another reason to never base any decisions on this game from what you read on here and only use your own mind and opinion.....
