Looks great but I ain't paying that price until the core game is sorted out the ill be happy buy that route straight away.
Finally we're also getting conductor mode on both units + updated br193 vectron with atb and dutch sounds + g6 locomotive + br 155 locomotive (not included with standard route, but most people own frankfurt fulda br193, which is a plus side if you ask me) + detailed cabs + detailed atb + Dutch regional tsw 5 edition for new players (they never did this with nll mildmay or cardiff or most other routes) + own atb manual. What else is there
OK, so the Koploper shown in the trailer vid's title screen is unit 4035. Unit 4013 is shown a few seconds later. These are resistor based Koploper, as opposed to a chopper based unit, so without the iconic motor sound. I hope this is an error in the video or the unit numbering code in TSW, as previously DTG showed unit 4051, which is a chopper based unit. BUT... unit 4057 also appears in the vid.... does this mean we get both version? Or is the numbering scheme just a bit off...?
Same here. I want Dutch railways in TSW but I refuse to buy DLC* immediately now as every new route always needs to be patched and the core game itself is so buggy. I'll keep my £33 for another day. *Only exception is Just Trains.
I'm watching a cab ride video of the route and not gonna lie it's pretty dull, if it was anything but the first Dutch route in the game I wouldn't be interested but for me it's about the new rolling stock and learning a new country's signalling and safety systems. It should still be a fresh experience even though the route looks kinda bland. My prediction is a second Dutch route for TSW 6
Wouldn't be paying too much attention to that myself. I think they just took the numbering for the entire ICM fleet, but if that's the biggest inaccuracy in the game, than I don't care. The game has always been a bit weird about numbering on EMU's, as you might notice that sometimes the front and back of the same EMU may have different unit numbers.
Yeah, that was my initial thought upon the initial announcement for the route back in august last year as well. Especially given I'm very familiar with this route IRL as it's my daily commute. It's dull with long distances between stations, large straight ends and relatively little variety in speed limits around the route. That said. It's a pretty quiet route and quite scenic at times while still a mainline "hoofdrailnet" route, and it's quite an understandable choice for a start specifically because of that. Specifically, it's a long route, but with only 8 stations a lot of rural landscapes. So there's relatively few things they can actually mess up without having to make too many assets, considering they'd have to create the asset library for the basic Dutch infrastructure from scratch too still. Any more dynamic and urban routes would require a lot more assets to be made before they even have their basics down yet. Same goes for the rolling stock, which Matt talked about early in this thread. They had narrowed down their options for the Netherlands down to a few, 3 I believe, candidates, and in the end, this was the only route on which they could get away with the little variety in rolling stock, given they don't usually do more than 2 entirely new trains per route. Any other route they had in mind, IF(!) they end up making it, would require a few more trains to already exist in the game to do them justice. I can understand that, given that I am in Zwolle on a daily basis, even the image from last roadmap with all the ICM's on Zwolle felt a bit weird to me considering the little variety in trains. Some of those ICM's were in places were there would've been Flirt 3's operated by Keolis IRL Also there's usually an NS DDZ somewhere present on the station as well. Of course there's always Stadler GTW's operated by Arriva too, but those would've been out of sight on that particular image anyways I do definitely think there'll be one or two more Dutch routes in the future though Matt did say that in the name of efficiency, they don't like making a complete new library of assets for a full new country, only for it to be used only once. But for now, let's not get ahead of ourselves, see how this route does, and we'll see what the future holds I am really hoping to also get a DDZ at some point though for this route, given how common it is IRL.
The Arriva Stadler GTW would add some nice scenery, as they run parallel to the line between Groningen and Groningen Europapark.
Wait and see. There must be quite a lot of new stuff. two EMUs, catenary, signalling, safety system, Dutch scenery and so on. Somebody needs to pay that and that's us. Indeed, this is not the most exciting route but I can understand the choice for this route.
True. Besides the main countries we have Austria, Switzerland, France and Canada. Canada is almost the same as the US, Austria and Switzerland are similair to each other and germany. France and the Netherlands are the only completely new countries, each having a completely different system. France was added in the TSW2 era, so the Netherlands is a welcome addition.
There are huge differences in the Austrian and the Swiss train system. I'm really excited for Dutch content, but I still think both Austria and Switzerland have huge potential for new content.
Half agreed. In terms of systems, Austria really is mostly just their own take on the German systems, and there are no true Austria exclusive rolling stock in the game yet. Switserland though is indeed a lot more unique in general, but as we all probably know by now, at least for the forseeable future, or at least until the SBB changes their licensing policy, any Swiss content is competely unviable for the time being.
Switzerland only shares the track width (1435 mm) and the overhead voltage with Germany (15 kV at 16.66 Hz), but that's it. The specifications of the overhead system itself are different though, which is why ICEs need to be fitted with a different pantograph to be allowed to run past Basel Badischer station. The safety system is also completely different, as is the width profile allowed for trains. Switzerland doesn't use PZB* unlike Germany or Austria, but Integra-Signum with ZUB (collectively known as ZUB 121) instead. This system is not emulated in TSW - the RhB Arosalinie in the game uses the ZSI-90 system and the only Swiss SBB mainline route currently in the game (S-Bahn Luzern - Sursee) uses ECTS instead. I just want to drive through Switzerland in an Re460 at 200 km/h with ZUB 121 . Or run through the old Gotthard tunnel. If it's not too much to ask, I'd like to do that last one in a Swiss crocodile (classes Ce 6/8 II or III) France had a promising start in TSW2, and I had good hopes that at least an extension to the current TGV route would be a thing down the line (the same route was extended to Lyon in TSClassic after all), and maybe even a classic (non-high speed) line with loco hauled trains and KVB. But alas. Even now that Dovetail is owned by a French publisher, there's sadly no news about a second French route. *except for the very short run from the German border into Basel Badischer station, but that station is operated by Deutsche Bahn even though it's in Switzerland, so it doesn't really count
Day one here too, if only to show support to DTG for releasing a Dutch route, as I won't have a lot of free time to actually drive the route until the weekend after the 25th.
Forgot about those differences, you tend to think it's germanic so they have the same. Even with their differences, Swiss content was only made by Rivet. So for Dovetail this is their second new country that doesn't change 1 or 2 things, such as Austria.
I see price creep has once again set in, a shame as I was quite looking forward to this route. 'Til we meet again in a sale then!
Opinions seem divided on that. I will be reserving judgement for the stream and the Day One reaction of those familiar with the prototype as to how faithfully DTG have captured the atmosphere, particularly sounds. Also how well it runs on the current core game engine. If there was a pre release purchase discount to trim 10% off then I might be tempted but the way things are going this will probably be 20 or 30% off as early as the summer sales.
looking forward a lot to this one... hopefully it does great and we get to know more Dutch routes... who knows, maybe I get to like em almost as much as German and Austrian content cheers
It's my local and daily commute, so I'm quite familiar with the area and the trains I'm a bit busy around the release date, but I'll definitely post my opinions after having done a few runs back and forth So far, only inconsequential inconsistencies or things that can still be changed relatively easily. I certainly hope you will enjoy it One thing Dutch routes definitely have over any German / Austrian one is that ATB is a lot easier than PZB! Both in terms of the rules of what to do, as well as no emergency brake because you were 1 second late on reaching 85km/h in bad weather from 160km/h. As long as ATB finds you're using appropriate braking force when it wants you to brake, it's happy
so kinda like some ATC/ACSES implementations ... easier than PZB? then it should be a breeze, since PZB is MOSTLY simple enough
AWS lol... I have even made memes about it ... PZB is like a drill sergeant, US systems, well, depends where and what... and AWS is like... beep, watch out man (and resumes drinking tea), otherwise whatever you feel like ... mostly so, sounds like I should be able to make even early runs without penalty brake applications, great ... I like that... tho at least some beeps are necessary, kinda like spicy food... I like some spice but not napalm on my tongue
A little bit. You can find a guide I wrote in my signature. Also, DTG made a guide themselves with the article which I'll link below. Basically. There's a few steps for ATB EG. The older system and the one active on this route. 4-6-8-13-14 (14 usually left blank) The one that's active now is just a speed limiter for that speed x10. If due to a change in line speed or signal ATB lowers, there's a bell. If you're above the new ATB speed limit, you'll need to brake. If you haven't applied brake after a few seconds, a continuous alarm will go off and you'll either, apply brake to silence the alarm, or face emergency stop. If you're withint a +5 range of the new ATB speed limit again, 3 bells will chime, and you're free to release the brake again (supposing it's the actual speed limit) Of course there's also speed limits outside of these limitation settings, say, 100km/h, but in that case ATB will use 13, and you're just gonna need to go to 100 yourself. https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/zwolle-groningen-atb-guide
you dont have to sell it to me ... not sure if it was your thread or someone else's, but I got the ATB guide thread bookmarked on multiple devices for future use when Dutch content gets out ))
We have discussed the ATB EG system but no mention has been made of the alerter. From the older head cam videos of Cabview Holland, you can see him reacting to a blue light on the console. In newer videos you can hear the driver work his/her foot treadle in response to this light. I have never noted a sound linked with it, though there must be if the driver waits too long to respond.
There is a sound after a couple of seconds when the driver doesn't respond, just like with Sifa. Because the ICM deadman is mechanical, you can actually hear the deadman before the alarm goes off.
If you look at Train Driver's POV Dutch Railway's videos, you'll see him do a brake test every time he starts up a cab. Part of the initial brake tests when setting up a cab is to test the deadman's brake. Unlike German SIFA, our "dodeman" is active also at 0 speed. The driver will put the reverser in forward and take his foot off the pedal for the dodeman to activate. That sound and braking is what would happen if the driver didn't respond with his foot, which he needs to do every 30 seconds.
yep, it said hello once when I was about to terminate in Euston with 710 and approaching the buffer at 20 mph, with plenty of time... but noooo, it said NEIN! and bam, penalty like this :
Yes, you have to stay below 15 there, or else.... Just as towards Gospel Oak. Luckily, an emergency brake will stop you in just the right place there
For the ICM Koploper does it work like a DB Baureihe 442 423 425 430 and ÖBB Baureihe 4024 which meant you simply accelerate from a station or the chopper control like a 313/2 314 British Railways PEP Emu.
Well, this is based on the sounds in videos, and no in country experience, but what you hear is the throttle lever's contacts moving quickly across the stationary contacts in the console.
I'm so glad we're getting Conductor mode for Both the icmm and sng, cause without it, it would've been so unrealistic. Also, since they don't have ai conductors/guards yet (i heard matt say recently in the ccn livestream that he wanted to do that in the future), to make the door closing procedure realistic, i suggest to go out the cab at every stop and insert the 'conducteur's kopsleutel' (guard key) in the 'deurbediening' (door control for the non-dutchies) and close the doors manually yourself. Just like this clip from train driver's pov dutch railways when he didn't have a conductor on his train: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx1gLrg5ldIju4qlEDyWZ6WYv-52URgtQw?si=dUW7E0kZtGdqM7_Z
You have separate traction and brake controllers. Traction is to your left, braking is to your right. The traction controller allows the driver to switch the motors between various serial and parallel power modes, each giving a certain amount of tractive force that's ideal under certain conditions. In practice, you just step the traction controller one step up at a time and the train will accelerate. For certain conditions, there's a push button on the control desk that allows the driver to half the power ("Verlagen aanzetkracht") to prevent wheelslip in slippery conditions, essentially giving an extra step at acceleration.
ATB controls speed. If you overspeed, you get a warning, ignore that and the train will come to a halt with the maximum brake setting. The driver needs to inform the conductor (usually limited to a quick "HC ATB ingreep" on the intercom, sometimes followed by a cheeky comment by said HC (HC stands for lead conductor). At certain signals, you'll find beacons that are part of the ATB-vv system ("vv" stands for "verbeterde versie", which simply means "improved version"). When that signal is showing red, these beacons are active and tell the onboard ATB controller that the train is approaching a red signal, and how far that signal is from that specific beacon. It's then up to the ATB controller in the train to check if the brake handle is in one of the brake positions, and if the current applied brake position will be enough to stop the train before it reaches the red signal. If it isn't, the ATB will issue an emergency stop. There are usually three magnets in sequence, each updating the distance to the red signal. If a signal turns green sfter the first magnet is passed, the pulse signal on the running rails will cancel the ATB brake command on the train and the driver is allowed to accelerate again (but ONLY if the driver can at that point see the signal's aspect). This is a big difference to PZB, where a driver will need to wait for the PZB program to finish and then release the train before he can accelerate, which is always after he passes the signal itself. Those beacons are only present at certain signals though, especially the ones that protect turnouts or crossings, or which lead to a station. Signals on through routes, so signals that do not protect a station entrance, turnout or crossing, usually have a sign with a big "P" on them (which stands for "permissief"), and can in theory be passed at a maximum of 40 km/h (ATB will not stop the train if you pass such a signal showing red), but this is of course not allowed. In practice, a train will always need to stop before any red signal, whether this is a P-signal or not. If the driver knows or suspects that a P-signal is unresponsive, and showing red for no good reason, or if he has another reason to enter that occupied block, he can contact the control center and ask to pass that signal at red ("permissief" means "with permission"). If permission is granted, the driver can pass the signal, but has to drive on sight until he reaches the next signal. If that signal shows green or yellow, he can trust the signals again and no longer has to drive on sight. ATB-NG and ATBM+ There are two more modes of ATB that are not installed on Zwolle-Groningen and will therefore not be in the game (neither ICMm or SNG support them anyway). The first is ATB-NG. This version of ATB works in a different way, and has beacons placed between the tracks for the entire route. Those beacons transmit "movement permissions" - packets of data that tells the on-board ATB controller how far (in meters) a train is allowed to move and at what speed. The driver is greeted with a display not too different to Germany's LZB: a three digit speed limit is shown in the spedometer, and a bar of LEDs counts down the distance until that speed limit has to be achieved. You'll mostly find ATB-NG on un-electrified local lines in the east and north of the Netherlands. ATB-NG can also be combined with regular ATB (vv or vanilla), forming the last ATB variant, ATBM+. Trains that support it, can use both ATB (vv) and ATB-NG at the same time. Why would you do that? Well, ATB is limited to 140 km/h, but sometimes you'll want to go a bit faster. ATB-NG allows trains to go beyond 140 km/h, so you combine the two on a route. This is done on the line from Schiphol to The Hague, where the Thalys trains (now Eurostar Red) used to run before the 300 km/h HSL Zuid was finished. All trains on the Schiphol - The Hague line are limited to 140 km/h on that route by ATB (vv), except for the Thalys units that support ATBM+ and pick up the "movement permission" at 160 km/h from those beacons. The combined form of ATB (vv or vanilla) wirh ARTB-NG on that line, if called ATBM+. ICMm at 160 km/h? If you look closely at the screenshot that DTG published of the inside of ICMm's cab, you'll notice that ICMm has an ATB light for 160 km/h. Originally, ATB had no maximum speed. This is why the final light in the bars on most older stock, is an unlabelled green square. It used to be that if that lit up, you could go as fast as your train was designed to go. Most NS trains could only reach 140 km/h though, with the exception of ICMm, so on most routes the green light was synonymous to 140 m/h anyway. The pulse code for 140 km/h present in the ATB specs, was actually not used because of this. Eventually, the railway regulations were changed, and ATB was officially limited to 140 km/h. This means that "green" now means "140 km/h" on all stock when driving under ATB control. So sadly, you'll never again see the "160" LED on the Koploper's combined ATB/spedometer unit light up.
++ A dutch route ++ The models looking good. - - too freaking clean. My observation is that the Dutch railways stopped washing their trains. On my last trip earlier this year I could barely see out of the window. - no freight layers without paying for yet another dlc - front door ways don't open. - tsw lighting is atrocious. - boring route
