I have a question. If you go through a yellow signal, the on-board ATB system will register that you need to approach the next signal at a reduced speed because it is expected to be red. During that time, if this next signal opens (thus not requiring you to stop anymore) and turns to yellow or green, are there some intermediate trackside beacons/transmitters that cancel the deceleration curve so you can accelerate again ? Or do you still need to decelerate and keep driving at a reduced speed until you go through the signal ?
ATB responds to a continuous stream of pulses down the running rails. If you're on approach to a red signal, and it turns green, the pulses change (within a second or so) and ATB will cancel the restriction. If (a big if!) the driver can also see the green signal, he's allowed to accelerate. Even if said signal is some distance away. ATB won't stop you either way, and you could accelerate even if you don't see the signal, but in real life, this is frowned upon. Depending on the scenario, a signal will first turn to yellow after red, or immediately to green. If the signal protects a block (permissive signal, indicated with a sign that reads "P") on the signal's stand), this is an automated signal that responds to the presence of a train in the block ahead. If that train clears the block, that block will go to yellow and not green, as you'll need to keep your safe distance. If the signal is controlled by traffic control, then the aspect is linked to a crossing or switch. If the switch is set against you, you'll get red, if the automated routing system (ARI) blocks your crossing, you will get red etc. In these scenarios, the signal can immediately turn green without going to yellow first. Uusually, they go to flashing-green though, without a speed limit indicated below them (or that speed limit indicator staying dark). Flashing green means "pass at 40 km/h max". In some rare cases, usually only in yards or during service disruptions, you can encounter a flashing yellow signal without a speed limit indicated below (or that speed limit indicator staying dark). Flashing yellow without a speed limit means "drive on sight - switches might be set against you, other trains could cross your path or track could be occupied".
Thanks ! This is good to reduce wasted time. Yes, I understand the need to see the signal for safety reasons, even when the ATB changes the in-cab display, before accelerating again. Safety before ponctuality !
Initial reaction is this looks good. I like both locos and the environment is very well done. Just doing a short night trip to zwolle. Only gripe I have is that I’d prefer something with a bit more branching and a few more stations.
First of all, I am very impressed with the route and trains, good job DTG! It looks awesome to me as a Dutchie. Day one buy for me at least. I agree with this. To me it sounded like the modern synthesized sounds from the SLT/SNG are re-used for the Koploper. I hope Dovetail can make this a bit better, the Koploper is a very old mechanical sounding train. Modern synthesized ATB sounds don't really fit into that. I'm not sure if this is the case, but I also think the chopper sounds are usually faintly audible from inside the cab and I also miss the hissing sound you hear just before the deadman requires action. Other than that, based on the live stream, it sounded really good to me.
To add to this: If you approach a red controlled signal there may be ATB VV "bakens" (markers/balise) at 120 meters, 30 meters and 3 meters. These give your train the command to generate and protect a brake curve to the signal itself, which is not visible to the driver mind you. If the signal were to turn green after passing the 120 meters baken the train will continue to enforce the speed curve. To combat this starting at 60 meters you will notice a wire in the middle of the track, this is the "vrijgaven lus" (disarming loop) that will remove the whole restriction. If you fail to meet the brake curve or hit the 3 meter baken your train will go into emergency brake. To bypass a controled signal with VV you can perform an override (while Stopped in Rem Criterium) and hitting the red "Ontgrendel" button 2 times in 3 seconds. The BD light will start flashing and will do so untill the red is passed or you have driven 200 meters. IRL you would only do this with EXPLICIT permission and the needed European Instruction from the train controler!
It looks interesting and fresh, but to me if driving the more modern unit, it could easily be any of the other one handled emu routes with which this game seems stuffed to the gills. Linear route, little ai traffic, just a few stations and green lights all the way, rinse and repeat. Having 2 units, one of which is very different, save the day. So perhaps this one has more reason to buy than many of the others.
I pretty much agree, though it’ll likely be a pivotal DLC for any future Dutch routes. That being said it did remind me abit of the Hamburg-Lubeck DLC, which aside from non exciting geography, was a nicely done route. Of course this one won’t require you to drive a cabcar in one direction all the time. It also has a nice pace of stops for the SNG at least, most DLCs either have no stopping or stopping every 2 minutes, this one at least has a regional service feel to it. For me they tend to give the most fulfilling experience.
Unusually, I did watch the preview. But I didn't hear anything about price or the save game. If I turned away momentarily, someone can correct me.
Several Koplopers have been fitted with special livery over the decades. KLM's livery was fitted to unit 4011 (now in the railway museum, but in standard ICMm blue and yellow), and KLM's subsidiary airline MartinAir also had its own Koploper (unit 4012), as did insurance company Aegon (three units, 4011, 4012 and 4024) and Lage Landen (unit 4050) and jobbroker Randstad (again unit 4050). In addition, there were several units with special liveries for the Dutch Olympic team (units 4201, 4240 and 4241), as well as a unit promoting the celebrations of the the 150th birthday of railways in the Netherlands in 1989 (unit 4083), and to celebrate 50 years of "Kinderboekenweek" ("Week of children's literature") (unit 4028). In July 2005 unit 4210 was fitted with special livery to celebrate the birth of our Princess Alexia, and in April 2007 unit 4051 was fitted with special livery for the birth of her younger sister, Princess Ariane. NS hired artists to "touch up" some of their trains too. Koploper unit 4023 was fitted with livery to promote the Groningen art museum, but at the same time that unit's interious was redesigned by Italian designer Alessandro Mendini. On the outside, the unit was recognisable because it had black and white doors instead of the standard colours, but the colour scheme on the inside of the train was quite different to a standard unit and very colourful: During the refurbishment program tht converted ICM to ICMm, all remaining special liveries were removed, and since then all Koplopers have been in the standard NS blue en yellow again. Unit 4023 no longer has its colourful interiour either. Of special note is unit 4231, that, although not technically a special livery, was fitted as a 1st class only unit, and renumbered into unit 4444, between 1996 and 2007, with no second class seating, and had the 1st class blue band across the entire length of the train because of this. This unit was usually a part of a consist of several ICMs between The Hague and Groningen (IC service 501 and 502) that had a higher than average demand for 1st class seating. This unit was turned into an ICMm in 2007 and became unit 4231 again, with the normal amount of 1st class seating.
Some of the seats from train 4023 are now used in the canteen in NS Workshop Onnen, at the moment the canteen is getting refurbished, so I don't know what will happen with the seats. See the second picture, in the back. https://nvbs.com/verslag/excursie-onderhoudsbedrijf-onnen/
Why is it when driving the KOP on xbox you have press b button loads of times before it register something to do with safety systems.
Omg they're so inconsistent with the implementation of safety systems on controller- most routes are ok but then it's like they completely forget to test it sometimes. This affects every player on console and some people on PC (like me, there are dozens of us lol) who actually prefer playing with a controller. Really hope a fix is in the first patch.
I really hope all these special liveries will also release on creators club and also the SNG blue front would be nice Also thanks for the information on all the special ICMm units
Just finished my first run to Groningen in the Koploper. Found it a bit challenging to keep to the speed limit as I'm not used the speedometer in it. Fun to drive for sure, taking a little brake, then its back to Zwolle.
Just want to say well done to DTG on a fantastic route ,. definitely the best in awhile so a big well done to the entire team , shows how good DTG can be.
Maybe like that in real life, but I'm finding the IC unit a bit overpowered. Pretty much holds 140 km/h in SZ1 or SZ2 throttle position. There also seems a slight imbalance in sound level. The noise going through points is very loud, had my wife shouting from downstairs, "Turn that train racket down." But the traction sound is virtually non-existent, not helped by no opening doors or windows to let in from the outside. So can that be buffed a bit and the point audio turned down a little, please?
DTG Harry, I notice that my question from the Q&A was incorrectly answered: I said station announcements, which TSW has had since GWE 8 years ago, not train announcements. Station announcements have been absent in the last two routes, where hearing new languages would've been appealing. I'm trying to understand why DTG are not making the effort to create these.
Just finished my first run, and it's pretty good! And there are fun little easter eggs. On the menu in the "Snack 'n' Dash" (which replaces the real life "Kiosk" branded shops I guess), you can purchase "sandwedges", which is how the average Dutchman would pronounce "sandwiches". You can also order a meal there. These meals come in two sizes: "ongetrouwd" and "dubbel". "Dubbel" indeed means what you think it would mean, and "ongetrouwd" indeed means single.... as in "not married". This is either a translation error or a deliberate easter egg. The same menu at the "Snack 'n' Dash" mentions that "customer service" comes at an extra 19.99 euros, and they admit that the turkey is actually chicken. Also, something called "nothing but lettuce" will set you back 12 euros in this virtual world...
Station announcements are very rare in the Netherlands. There wuld be specifc announcements for delayed trains and cancelled trains, but not much general like don't step of the platform and stuff like that. So blame NS for this and not DTG.
It also would be great to eventually see a DDZ on this route for some more variety on the line. It sometimes looks a bit abnormal to only see ICMm's. If DTG continues to develop more Dutch routes in the future (hopefully) and integrates trains from other Dutch routes into this one, the overall experience will improve significantly. Essentially, this route serves as a strong foundation for future routes set in the Netherlands. Apart from that I find the route to be excellent. The details are there, the sounds are marvelous and the look and feel of the route actually gives that 'Dutch' feel (for me at least).
Yes to try and hear the motor sounds. I will double check - yes, turns out I'm in the Driving Trailer. My bad.
there is one thing I havent quite picked up from the ATB tutorial... cos it mainly showcased when ATB is going to penalty you and how to recover from it... but what I didnt understand was that as you are approaching a red, and you get the yellow in-cab aspect... at what speed should you gradually approach the red signal to stop normally and not get penalty stop... I got that there are those magnets, but the tutorial didnt explain how I should reduce the speed not to get penalty... like 20 kph or less? y know, so I can nicely stop just before the red signal like on other routes... or, if you can, could you pls explain how to gradually slow down not to get penalty? thx
dont forget at amsterdam schiphol and rotterdam central station they also do specific announcement about international trains announcing it in 3 or 4 languages
The braking curve differs between trains, my advice would be to slow down to 10 kmh and only start accelerating again if your ATB code improves to a better state than yellow(40) or the signal displays something other than red and you’ve past another magnet since or are over the freeing loop.
So, first thoughts... I'd say this route makes you feel positive vibes! Solid and well made. Still testing the SNG and I'm already amazed by the stock included! Well modeled; they sound so good (apparently) and provide me quite positive feedback. Stations and surroundings are very well made (I think so). There's a good general attention to detail! Only found these issues: - Some mid-distance areas are a bit bland (but it's the Dutch territory!). - ATB interface (Virtual speedometer) gives wrong restriction aspects in two different points (example: 130km/h where 120km/h actually) [solved]. - Wrong braking curve on the SNG and speed up of ICMm as well. Need to be fixed! In addition to the OHLE issue already discussed here. 9/10, at the moment... Only because route linearity and flatness (this was highly anticipated, anyway!). Good job DTG! Impressive! EDIT - After a few more runs with both stock... Stand by my previous thoughts! Just want to add: on the ICMm, safety system buzzers/bells are drowned out by unit sounds (over 100km/h). Could they be increased a bit?. 9+ DTG! Well done! PS. Hope to see other iconic units in the future, like the VIRMm or SLT (alongside their route). Maybe an ICRm (with 186 MS2 or?)? Fall in love with blue & yellow trains!
That part at least is not a bug. There’s only a handful of speeds ATB can control: yellow (40), 60, 80, 130, and green (140). Anything other than that, the code transmitted is that of the nearest higher speed.
Thank you. If true, that's at least a reasonable excuse for not being included in this route. On Cardiff though, there definitely should be bilingual annoucements.
thx another question - there is this digital screen on the left side on the newer unit... do I have to do anything with it or what does it do exactly? I mean, I dont need it for both units to be powered and such, right?
this one ? if you click on the big square and then press 'wijzigen' (=change), you can change the pis destination (bestemming). if you go to the menu, you can also set the brightness (helderheid)
When you are stopped in a station (and walking around) the deadman's alarm still seems to go off with brake apply. Does anyone know how to disable it while stationary? (in UK you put reverser in neutral, doesn't work here)
I have been a bit more hesitant to buy TSW stuff lately but I took the plunge on this one since the first reviews were positive. I’ve only had time to do one of the shorter runs in the SNG but so far this route seems great. The stations and scenery are really good. The signage, schedules, ticket machines, PIS are all unique to the route/NS and give it an authentic feel right off the bat. The countryside looks very good. Granted I haven’t been there IRL but it definitely has a Dutch/lowland feel with the water and dikes. Performance on PS5 seems great right off the bat. A big positive to the relative simplicity of the route and the fact that there’s only a few trains mean it seems to run great. The janky feel of some of the newer massive routes like Frankfurt and WCML is what soured me on TSW as of late. I really like the Dutch trains and feel of the Dutch railway. Great to have a new safety system to use and a continental European route outside of the German sphere. Those are too few and far between so I hope it sells well enough to get us more.
a tiny bit curious, driving the ICM now, I kinda get what the S and P settings on throttle are (series and parallel, I guess), but what does the R setting mean? is it sth like "minimal"? edit: just so I dont spam this thread ... noticed upon my third run from Groningen to Zwolle with ICM (sorry, but cant remember the famous Kop... whatever ) that when going on a descent around 0.7%, which is when I usually go idle with throttle because at that gradient trains tend to gain speed, well, this one was actually losing a bit of speed... can somebody explain why? I know that at almost 140 kph the adhesion wont be crazy high, but still
Putting the reverser in neutral works for me (tried in the Koploper). PS: Tried the same with the SNG3, same result. Setting the reverser to neutral prevents the deadman beeps.
Fun fact: Just realized the Deadman and ATB switches are not located exactly in the same place in the 2 cabs of the Koploper.
I have a question for the ATB experts. When I pass a yellow triangular signal with a number, ATB beeps and asks me to brake immediately even when the signal is just announcing a speed restriction that is coming soon but does not apply yet. My guess is that this is correct and the way the system works forcing me to be at the allowed speed when I get to the white squared signal. What I mean is, am I correct to assume that it is acceptable to the railway rules to go over the speed limit in the yellow signal, get the beeps and apply the brake before the emergency brake triggers? I'm asking because right now the in-game scoring system is counting it as overspeeding, and I think it should not. What do you guys think? PS: Added a screenshot that shows the "overspeeding" when I'm supposedly well within the limits.
I believe there is some switch on the left side of the dashboard, similar to DRA that you can set to disable deadman when stationary, but since I have just turned off the game, cant tell you exactly where but anyway, with ICM or SNG you will rarely be stationary for so long as to trigger deadman, at which you just press Q and be done with it
