Upcoming Release Frankfurt S-bahn: Coming Soon!

On PC we don't crash here, just getting worse frame rate (8-15 fps) than Frankfurt Hbf area. If my CPU decides that it worked too much and throttles, the time would literally slow down to 50% speed.

 

Can you say please Where Are the Station Screens at Frankfurt Hbf?
None Track had any PIS Boards

 

Hello Matt.
Considering what you have mentioned above, and... this is a route of suburban type of trains , could be possible to add to console an option, to not include ICE trains, before loading it?
The word "mammoth" as you mentioned, it is an important one!

Just as an idea, to improve this issue.
In my case I have no problem, to not have ICE trains, when the route was created for smaller ones.

Furthermore, if you want to drive an ICE1 or 3, you could do it, by Free Roam tool!

Regards

 

I haven't been disabling individual layers lately, but I'm not installing anything I don't want to have active, and that seems to be beneficial, it could be a coincidence, but it seems to me that it works a bit...

For example, currently for the FTF track I only have the BR101 + Hauptstrecke add-ons installed, then LGV, Vorarlberg and Maintalbahn ..... And I have the other layers logically disabled, and so far it seems that even the textures aren't getting blurred .....

This is just my subjective opinion on the PS5 Pro, maybe it helps

 

Whose job is that then? Do you want me to go in there? Would you like me to canvas the user experience and feed back? Because that already happens. As in most businesses it's COST, not ability that holds things back.

The game is in the state it's in because the resource is off and hasn't been concentrated into the right areas. It's been moved into areas where money is made at a significant cost to the consumer. It happens in every business and isn't unique to Dovetail. As a dev you should be well aware of cost cutting on builds and features. It's all about getting the work to market quickly, not the quality.

I could even imagine the likes of Matt and his team being unhappy about certain decisions, but that's the life of producing software.

I'd argue that TSW is pumping out more content than ever, but that they are doing it on top of a broken framework. Doesn't take a genius or a software developer to understand that, the product doesn't meet standards, anyone can see it and its been like that most of tSW shelf life but much much worse since TSW5.

Your line about rather having something than nothing really just sums up the whole situation. Im of the latter opinion that if you are going to invest time and energy into something, do it properly, please the masses and keep the people who pay your bills onside.

 

Well funnily enough my textures blurred on Fulda. So when I stopped to get a pic of it and went into photo mode, the textures cleared up. I then went back into the game and then they started to degrade again. not sure what that means.

 

That's a fair reply but then why do this route at all? Although I suppose an exclusive PC only route would have people hitting the roof anyway...

 

Minor question here - If Frankfurt Hbf. looks empty, would it be possible to place low-poly, static and interior-less train models simply for cosmetic purposes?

 

This who controversy could have been avoided had they been more transparent. Hiding the reduced timetable bit at the bottom of the release article felt shady and no doubt was in the hope that alot would miss it.

The easiest solution to this is to just give console players a discount. There's no free upgrade to take advantage of now, so people can't cheat the system

 

I almost wonder whether in the future there will only be DLC with reduced traffic for consoles, or whether they will also start looking for more traffic-friendly routes? That is probably the more important factor ... but only time will tell.

 

I suspect, after this route, you won't see anything quite as complex for a very long time. I think MP implied this in an earlier post.

On the other hand, I know it's a bit tacky, but I'm kinda looking forward to this route, just to see how well ( or not ) it plays on my PC.

 

Why do you feel the need to attack me for stating my personal opinion? Which in no way attacked you.

 

Attack? Lol.

 

I've been around the sun 70 times I know a sarcastic insult back to me when I see one.

Or were you trying to incite a reply from me like the others. Because your not going to get one your opinion is valid and you have every right to be upset and request a discount.

I just like I have every right to be satisfied. I don't have many years left so I just enjoy what I get.

 

If I install TSW on the PC via the Xbox app, can I run the full timetable?

 

Massive bags of respect for you dude, more people would be less pent up and feel like they have to be angry if the adopted your attitude in life......

 

Afraid not. The XBox app loads the XBox version and runs it through a PC XBox emulator.

 

Matt Said it’s PC timetable

 

I would say TSW's performance on consoles has been bad for quite a while, not just since TSW5. It's more noticeable now because they are actively making more detailed content with more varied timetables. You are absolutely right that at the end of the day, cost is going to be the bottom line, but that's not new.

You are correct that the framework is broken. I'd argue that the game shouldn't have been built in UE4 to begin with, but it is and as such that immediately puts limitations on what can be achieved with optimisation alone. Some things have got better and some things have got worse, and it's going to be an ever evolving thing. Rather than having the completely unrealistic expectation of DTG stopping production of any and all further content until they rebuild the entire game from the ground up, think about what could possibly be done to make changes within the existing framework. Their current "big" fix is a reduced timetable with little variation. I'd argue that some people may be happier with a reduced timetable that has less playable services overall but uses a wider range of trains. If enough people showed that they would prefer this then maybe future timetables would be created with that vision, that way you would end up with more varied services and termini that look more populated.

My point was never that everything is fine and we should all just pay out the nose and be happy, rather that it seems churlish to keep complaining about something, acting as if there is no precedent for it, disregarding the reasoning behind the change and then sarcastically replying to people that show enthusiasm towards the product. If we're talking about things I would've liked, I much would have preferred this route to be the entirety of the S8 or S9, rather than sections of them and spurs of High Speed line. I too don't entirely believe the line of it not being able run effectively due to resources running wild but I can certainly see that it would play a major part. And, when you have profit margins as a business, this is the type of compromise that inevitably has to happen. I don't think what we're being given is half-assed (for the most part, there are some missing details here and there), rather it's just a product working within the limitations of what is available. DTG are not Microsoft, they cannot offload world data to a cloud server like MSFS, they aren't Rockstar so they don't have the luxury of being able to work on a game and bespoke engine for the better part of a decade whilst passively raking in millions from an online mode.

I would absolutely love to see a concerted effort by DTG to improve the core as much as they can, while also unifying the overall quality and experience of the game between their inhouse stuff and third party products. I agree that this does sometimes come across as a lesser priority from them than it should. I am however, content with what's available. I believe a lot could be done to improve it, but I also know that I will still have a good time with what's on offer. You don't feel the same and that's fine, but you don't need to take up some sort of "holier-than-thou" attitude and hound on about your dissatisfaction. It's not productive, nor does it change anything. Offer constructive feedback or speak with your wallet. If enough people feel the same as you on this and don't purchase it then we don't get any more routes like this until DTG is confident that they can be performant on console without any timetable downgrades, regardless of if people request this type of route.

 

spot on reply that managed what I couldnt do in a dozen more or less annoyed sarcastic posts ... I see faults and bugs and all, and as a person with OCD tendencies (not diagnosed with anything officially cos I havent managed to find a doc yet) even small stuff can trigger day-long episodes of me poring over and overanalyzing some small bug or inconsistency... but I also use TSW as a training grounds for me in this aspect - learning to enjoy the game and its parts despite stuff like this jumping in

so yea, if I wanted to, I could spew posts upon posts about how this game is trash and all, but I am still able to enjoy the game, because majority of it is great and works... when something annoys me or I find a bug, I post in corresponding thread and sometimes file a support ticket... or in a thread about Livery designer I posted almost a fully fledged suggestion article on what could be changed/improved in that utility to make creating liveries much more effective

a little example from a thread about Ludwigsbahn, where I noticed a slight bug or inconsistency where an arbitrary speed limit is enforced by magnets before one of the stations (and you are not told what it is in kph, so you are either forced to use PZB Befehl button or test it out until you determine it is 30 kph or less)
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...bahn-feedback-thread.88852/page-8#post-999401
described in detail, calmly, reasonably, until we got to some kind of conclusion, for now... I could have worded it like "oh my this game sucks, they dont know how to set up signals boo"

we all get passionate and overdo it sometimes, but lets try and choose an approach which can ultimately result in better product/experience... throwing bombs certainly isnt it

 

I don't think people "threw bombs" here. I saw criticism yes. But without critical thinking there isn't enough progress. I prefer critical thinking more than peer pressure.

 

So, and i'm really not trying to be sarcastic at all- does the user-side layer toggle actually do anything?

For a layman, what's the practical difference between "doesn't load those trains" and "remove the data from memory"?

 

Unfortunately that makes the problem worse, not better; each different item of rolling stock consumes a whole slug of resources simply to exist on the route. Brighton Mainline works even with its huge timetable because there really are only two trains on it.

 

Basically, it lets the game get around the ps5s DLC limit

 

Brighton Mainline has the following trains:

377
387
375
323
166
66 with different freight trains

and 09 as AI.

 

Pretty sure the HST shows up as an AI service too

 

The trains themselves still have a physical footprint, so it will be alleviating memory in that regard. The TT data part is probably deeper in spaghetti code which I suspect is the root of many of TSWs issues by now (much like TSC).

 

It's a game forum. And the purpose of a game forum is, that the developers get a feedback on their product.

And it's completely normal, that there is critical feedback. Otherwise the developers get that feedback first on lesser sales.

I think it's positive for both. The company and the customers.

 

Right, right- forgot about that whole issue.

Ok that does make sense- thanks!

 

Yes, but 90% of them are 377s and 387s

 

Between London Victoria and Clapham junction you can see an AI freight train with an 66 around each 2 minutes.

 

Exactly

 

When Blackpool Branches came out people were upset that a loco that retired in 1984 could substitute onto the 1986 timetable, the user toggle fixed that by letting them disable that substitution. I didn't realise until this thread that it didn't actually stop the content from loading, just stopped it from appearing.

 

Same here- it makes a lot more sense now.

I never understood why there needed to be reduced timetables at all (even for Gen 8), since i thought it meant users could reduce memory footprint just by deselecting layers, but clearly that's not the case.

I'd be curious to know the ratio of memory usage for a given train in terms of physical footprint (i.e. the model, textures, and physics) vs the timetable footprint.

I'd guess that newer trains (in the history of TSW) take up more of the former since they're generally a higher quality model with more functions, etc, while the latter is dependent on how often it appears in the timetable, maybe?

But like is it generally 50/50 in terms of total footprint, or usually more skewed one way or the other?

 

yes

 

I fundamentally understand that, but I think there is probably a balancing act that could be played around with. I realise it's not the most practical solution, it was more an example as opposed to fully feasible idea.

 

Just a guess, but given that routes are developed for PC first and then adapted to consoles, it seems likely that DTG had no way of knowing this route wouldn't work as is on console gen 9 until the PC version was done and they had started moving it over. At that point, the choice of scale it down or drop the console version entirely doesn't seem like much of a choice at all.

 

The DB Logo is missing on the Fernbahnhof

 

At the end of the day TSW was made for consoles and I’m sure is the main player-base as PC have more alternatives anyway, dropping Console would be crazy to be honest.

 

This station looks like a cruise ship

 

what other options does pc have for a train simulator, what one to that’s that’s a 20+ year alternative and visually looks like FSX/P3D!

For me as a pc users I want a train sim to be as good as/up there with the likes of MSFS/MSFS2024 qualiity etc!

 

I own both platforms fortunately but both have issues.

Both versions should be thoroughly tested in their own environments. It’s foolish to build something on a pc and then test it on an Xbox development kit on pc.

Im not sure what dtg do but the amount of bugs that dlcs release with on console suggests they don’t test it on the actual platform as players immediately pick them up first time.

If there needs to be separate versions then they should develop that way even though it’s essentially twice the management.

People are paying half or more the RRP cost of triple A gaming for these dlcs.

So far since TSW5 release the only worthwhile purchase has been the Dutch route. Everything else has had either bugs, performance issues or unfinished or missing content.

 

There are a few, of course. Trainz is another big one on PC, and Simrail is gaining ground (slowly).

And that TSC looks like FSX is no coincidence of course. Dovetail had a big hand in developing and distributing FSX for Microsoft. That's not to say they share code or assets (most likely not), but the feel is indeed similar.

TSC has the big advantage over TSW that there is A LOT of content out for it. For example, in TSW, you have one Dutch line with two stock types on it. In TSC, about 80% of the country's rail network is present, as well as pretty much all the rolling stock of NS, Arriva and other operators. The same is true for other countries.

Done well, a loco in TSC can feel just as real to operate as in TSW, including simulation of the on board computer systems and the ability to "walk" through the engine room*. Those locos are rare though, with most of the locos being a lot less realistic. TSW pretty much guarantees a good quality loco and lots of buttons and switches to play around with, where in TSC it's very much a case of "your mileage may vary".

Comparing a rail simulator to MSFS202x isn't really fair. MSFS creates a world based on satellite imagery that is streamed from a central Azure server somewhere in the cloud. This is incredibly expensive, and the only reason why MS does it, is because it serves as a way to advertise the speed and potential of their Azure infrastructure (and to a lesser extent: Bing).

Also, if you fly close to the ground in MSFS, you'll see the image quality falls apart quickly. The technique is really only suitable to be viewed from above (like one does in an airplane).

Now, the planes in MSFS can be very detailed and realistic, but that's also the case for TSW.



*In TSC, the walking is done in set camera standpoint increments instead of walking around like you'd do in most other computer games

 

It has been noticed by Lukas. As they have the license, I'm pretty sure it will be added in a future patch

 

The TSC code has nothing to do with FSX. DTG only latterly acquired the rights to sell it and patch up the core so it worked slightly better on more recent hardware and sold under the Steam jacket. It’s possible their failed attempt at Flight Sim World derived some source code from FSX, before the project collapsed. FSX was developed in house by MS and was basically a rework of the existing FS code going back to god knows when.

TSC has its origins in the Rail Simulator programme developed by Kuju in 2006/2007 and published by Electronic Arts. Whether this reused some of the MSTS source code is open to debate but we have to assume Kuju devised their own graphics engine which has been tweaked via Railworks into TSC and now pretty much abandoned by DTG.

 

DTG Harry I hope this is ok to post here, if its not appropiate then you can remove it

I had my first run on Frankfurt S Bahn yesterday afternoon. I was on the PS5 with reduced timetable.
All I can say is that although I am against having a reduced timetable I can understand why Gen 9 has it. I will be doing some more runs & tests again this afternoon (this morning I am job hunting, after writing this lol). I wont say anymore as I dont want to encroach my NDA, But I will stream from after the embargo is lifted on Monday* (other ambassadors are available ), Like I said I am not happy about having a reduced timetable and still you guys paying full price as well. But I can fully understand why there is a reduced timetable. I would also recommend those with a Potato PC (or Gen 9 equivalent PC) to use the reduced timetable as well. Having said that I do quite like the route. Bit of a shame that we have to have the reduced timetable.

*Provided I havent started a new job by then or won the lottery :p

Hentis

 

I definitely get the impression DTG bit off more than they could chew with this DLC, I think if they knew how much of a pain it would be beforehand, this route would not be made.

 

Don't forget the 465, 313 and HST too!

Even so, in my opinion, I don't understand why such a memory-intense route was chosen; Frankfurt-Fulda has already been a major indication of how a Frankfurt route already handles on console, so surely this wasn't going to be a complete mystery.