‘extended Period Of No First-party Releases’

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by londonmidland, Apr 22, 2022.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,181
    Likes Received:
    16,299
    For those of you that missed this post, DTG JD posted the following message:

    ‘After the Spirit of Steam release, we will have an extended period of no first-party releases, and dedicate the time to solving a lot of longer-term issues (primarily focused around post-Rush Hour, but we may go further back if we have the scope to)’

    The full message can be found here, under post #142

    I personally think this is a good thing, as since Rush Hour release, things have been pretty ‘messy’ regarding fixes, updates and QA checks. This gives the opportunity for DTG to go back and amend things, as well as more importantly fix any major bugs and issues. It also allows them to fix some long standing core issues, such as the save game bug.

    Please, spend the time wisely DTG. This is your chance to make TSW a more stable and consistent game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 40
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  2. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2021
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    524
    Here is my wishlist for this 'extended' period of no first-party releases:
    Fixed Save Button.
    Fixed Brighton Main Line PIS.
    Fixed Class 387 PIS *This is a Southern Service to Brighton calling at Brighton and Brighton*. Pretty sure it should say 'This is a Gatwick Express Service to Brighton, calling at Brighton'.
    Better Stability.
    Fixed Performance.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,853
    Likes Received:
    4,935
    Definitely good to see, DTG really need to take a break and work on what’s been built already, further development of content on their current foundation is only going to make things worse.
     
    • Like Like x 11
  4. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    341
    Well, that should be great ! If SOS will not need itself to be fixed first....but lets be optimistic.
    If not only the post Rush hour mess can be fixed...
    Now lets keep our hopes low in order not to be disappointed..

    For me it would be : all bugs fixed, all services doables on all routes with no red light, a working save feature, BML with rush hour passagers, no more stucked passengers..., working safety features... In fact things that should work since start...

    No new features before fixing that is not working actually... That also thé reason that i fear SOS may be harmful..
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    3,913
    I think we should wait and see how successful it is before we get excited, but this won't be the first time this forum's jumped the gun. Also I thought we were all in a mad panic that there's nothing else on the roadmap and how will they keep players interested, cos without new releases players get disinterested, they leave, dovetail's money dries up, they go bankrupt, everyone's computer explodes and the world ends.

    If it is a success, then great.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 7
  6. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    341
    For my part i can very well live with no releases if things go get fixed through this time. We will see.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,327
    Likes Received:
    10,413
    Extended period could mean just about anything though...

    Six weeks, six months, a year?

    This also goes against previous mantra that those working on fixing the core are not the artists building the routes and stock packs.

    Good news though if the more glaring issues can be fixed, save game obviously number one but also sounds (i.e. better and more of them) and the dire lighting.

    Edit: And the cynic in me also wonders if this will morph into TSW3 and we all pay again…
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 6
  8. Cash

    Cash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2021
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    266
    I really would like like them to fix the broken station directory in Riesa - Dresden. It's a really annoying issue for me personally and ruins the immersion when playing.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    3,913
    Wonder, therefore, if they're also going to be looking at things like scenery.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    2,108
    That makes me a bit hopeful, I just wonder why something important like that is burried in a discussion on the Playstation forum... Thanks for making me aware of that, explains why the "roadmap" is extremely empty and hopefully means that actions will follow all the PR talk we heard for the last 1.5 years.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  11. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    2,105
    I pointed this out right after the post and it got ignored so nice to see it has caught on. :D I think the streaming schedules that we are seeing are showing this, there is more TSC than TSW and some novel streams as well as a slightly lighter schedule.

    Now that we are all aware this is happening and can see the benefits of it I hope we don't see quite as many what are you working on? or why is the roadmap so quiet? posts. We have to accept that there is a tradeoff so the QA team and devs can fix up the existing issues rather than make new content. It is what we wanted and it is a good thing for the health of the game in the longer term.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  12. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,191
    Likes Received:
    1,959
    Totally agree- this is a pretty major announcement IMO, and should have been posted in the "announcements" section.

    As for the pause in first-party releases, I'm also a bit hopeful as the core definitely needs work.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Jalio

    Jalio Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    133
    It does sound like a good thing, before we know it that waiting period will end and hopefully the game will be in a better state... let's hope.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    In real life it can say Southern on the PIS, as they borrow some Class 387s from GX for peak time services to Brighton.
     
  15. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    1,290
    Hopefully this will mean the preserved content updates will appear sooner too.
     
  16. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2022
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    263
    [QUOTE="... (primarily focused around post-Rush Hour, but we may go further back if we have the scope to)’

    ...

    It also allows them to fix some long standing core issues, such as the save game bug.[/QUOTE]

    The worrying part is they suggest that fixing anything like the save game bug would be done at a real push, if they ever get time, but I hope they actually put this one at the top of the list, above post-Rush Hour issues, or at least alongside them. Not entirely sure what they mean by "the scope". However, I'm sure TrainSim-Matt would have to agree that the save game feature is a core one that absolutely should work without question, and should have worked from the beginning of TSW, if not patched urgently after launch. There can be no more excuses.

    I want to be able to play this game, and the only way I can do that is if I can save progress on a route then resume without broken red signals that prevent progression.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    6,434
    Probably means that those who normally work on routes and locos will be pressed into the bug fixing effort instead.

    I too somehow missed JD's statement. It has to be a good thing if it's sustainable.

    Lots of folks have been suggesting a " pause and repair " period for quite some time but many thought it couldn't be sustained business wise. While not specifically a response to forum postings, I think recent threads have had some effect on future plans.

    It's certainly a reason to be optimistic about the future of the game. I, for one, will gladly forego new dlc if those long-running problems are dealt with during the intermission.

    How long? Doesn't matter if it's protracted, as long as current and subsequent releases are better for it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    9,045
    Likes Received:
    13,002
    I also suspect, or at least hope,
    that a great deal of this stand-down will be devoted, behind the scenes, to reworking procedures and organization so that in future QA and beta, and for that matter the inclusion of standardized features, is regularized and brought back from the goat-rope they have become. There is little point pushing ahead with more DLC until the testing regime is straightened out.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    289
    Necessary, but unfortunate as that will mean no new 1st party reveals for a while (was hoping to finally see some loco DLC). Does this also means the new German route (whatever it is) will also be "delayed"? Since it seems the release of the steam route can't be too far off? Unless the German route is something short again, like the Harlem one.
     
  20. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    4,189
    I’ll believe it when I see it. I will only get excited about fixes when I’m reading patch notes for them and have verified that they didn’t break something else. There seems to be a lot of hope in this thread and I hope it’s not being misplaced. An elusive downtime mentioned by a community manager may not be anywhere near the size some people seem to think it’ll be.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  21. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    289
    Yeah, definitely something that deserves better clarification via news article or at least a paragraph in the next roadmap at least, instead of just a passing mention in a "random" thread.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  22. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    598
  23. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2018
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    876
    Bakerloo timetable ;_;
     
    • Like Like x 4
  24. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2019
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    343
    Hopefully they can also fix crashes on SFJ, it's the only route that crashes with UE4 error for me.
     
  25. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    They need to get the Dynamic Dispatcher to work first
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Appreciate the words, but I'll believe it when I'll see it. We have already heard enough BS by DTG...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    5,584
    Likes Received:
    14,494
    It could be that the German route is being made mainly by outside contractors. DTG have lots of individuals and companies making their content for them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  28. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,181
    Likes Received:
    16,299
    I too am wary of what will happen. We’ve heard several ‘we have learnt our lessons/we will not make the same mistakes/we will do better next time’ etc sayings and excuses from DTG for it to not materialise, with us ending up at square one again.

    Though the fact that this has been mentioned on a public forum must mean that there has been some serious conversations being taken place internally.

    However, it would be nice to have some clarity on this, rather than it being posted on a random thread on the PlayStation section within the forums.

    DTG, it’s up to you to to try and communicate effectively again. Something which has been lacking for several months on these forums I have found.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  29. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    I am somewhat torn over this. Of course I want to see issues fixed in previous releases but I didn't want it to come at the cost of seeing new content. I am the player who likes to constantly have a carrot dangled in front of me when it comes to this.

    I doubt this extended period will be as long as some people are surmising in this thread though...after all, releasing content keeps DTG's books in the black
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    9,045
    Likes Received:
    13,002
    The very fact that they are holding up on new DLC - which costs them hard cash - is an indication that they are serious about this. That doesn't guarantee that they'll succeed, but it's more than lip service.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,066
    Likes Received:
    8,800
    Frankly, I'll believe it when I see it. Although that announcement should've been posted in the announcements section of the forum. This frankly is long overdue. There's no point in releasing new dlc's when this game is riddled with problems that seem to affect newer dlc's as well.

    Hopefully they will finally fix the save function during this period. It's been 5 years
     
    • Like Like x 5
  32. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    2,595
    Likes Received:
    5,537
    The cynic in me says that the majority of the Dev team have been employed on SoS and this "extended period of no releases" is nothing more than they don't have anything to release after SoS.
    Will anything change, will anything improve? Maybe but I don't hold out any hope.

    I do however look forward to being proved wrong
     
    • Like Like x 11
  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,327
    Likes Received:
    10,413
    Also that they have realised Scouse Steam is going to fall down badly if the main bugs are not sorted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    I would be interested to know what is actually being worked on, is it ps5 and 4 errors, Xbox sound, rush hour, bakerloo timetable we’ve all paid for yet not received , optimisations, preserved crew work etc etc.

    I’d envisage there is still something in development. If it takes up to a year to do a route and they’re stopping I suspect it will be for 4-8 weeks max and something else is already part baked otherwise it could be next year before anything which absolutely won’t happen.

    im hoping this “standard features” lark is sorted so we get more Dresden lighting etc.
    My gut feeling is this break is in direct correlation to the most recent stream and there’s internal consultation happening with staff about how to move resource about, I could be wrong but feel it’s possible. Too much has happened lately for their not to be some staff training, performance management, training etc ,
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  35. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,327
    Likes Received:
    10,413
    Well I suppose one bonus of no new content is that we might start seeing flash sales to bring in a bit of extra revenue, pick up the routes like RT, IOW, Arosa or WCL which no way I would pay full price for.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    9,478
    During this extended downtime, I hope DTG will keep the community updated as to what they’re working on and even involve the community, so as many issues can be fixed as possible. I have a list as long as my arm, I’m sure others do too.

    I’m hopeful the extended down time yields some very tangible, positive improvement.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  37. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2022
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    334
    Oh my, the time has come!

    I am so glad that this is going to happen. I wished for them to take a "DLC break" for a longer time for now, so I'm very glad to hear they will do this. And if it goes well, I hope they do it again in the following years. Erasing bugs, implementing new features - I'm more than willing to wait for a year for new DTG DLC if I instead get a working save function, better rendering, better performance, less bugs, route merging, scenario planner 2.0... or other stuff, etc.

    And even if it's "just" bug fixing, I'm happy to wait for a year or two if that means we get the better product.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  38. reallychummy

    reallychummy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2022
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think DTG are waiting to see if SoS is successful. If so then they will look at creating more steam routes, if not well there are some other lines that run Electrostars for release in 2023.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  39. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    3,913
    I think they'll have already decided which routes they'll be doing over the next (up to) 18 months, or at least have a rough idea.
     
  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    5,829
    Routes will be locked in, dlc won't be a year away. It's a business. This will be nothing more than a brief period of reflection and sweeping up
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,928
    Likes Received:
    3,913
    I think they'll have started the German route but they're going to just give it to a small team for a while after Steam, so it'll take a bit longer while they do other stuff. I highly doubt the entire TSW department of the company will be downing tools.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    2,105
    They won't be downing tools but the route building and loco building teams who aren't involved in SoS should be helping the preservation crew fix up the existing routes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    4,189
    If DTG have already implemented the 1-team-per-country infrastructure, then we can take an educated guess about who’s working on what. The German team is obviously already working on a route and based on Brandon’s comments, we can reasonably assume that another US route might already be in the works as well. A pessimistic appraisal of the situation would be that the UK team (along with anyone not currently busy on the other projects) will have maybe a few weeks of downtime after SoS before being assigned to the next UK project. All just speculation though.
     
  44. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    505
    It doesn't really contradict their statement. You've misinterpreted what they mean. As a digital design employee in any sense, you have multiple skills.

    People who are working on the core will only work on it until they've finished. That's called prioritisation - where you assign someone a job to do which they're best suited for. But because they have other skills, they may be used elsewhere afterwards or not even for TSW2.

    As a graduate digital designer, you have programming skills, modelling skills for 3DS, knowledge on environment creation in unreal engine or unity, and game building. Those are a broad set of applicable skills to be used at DTG.

    Developers for TSW2 may work on a route and then fix a loco, indulge in personal projects in their spare time or experiment. People at DTG move about different teams when they're needed. The preservation crew itself is not a fixed set of people, developers from the main game and route production may move into the preservation crew once they've finished because of their applicable skills.
     
  45. Cash

    Cash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2021
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    266
    I doubt it will be a year or two until we get a new DTG DLC. After all, they do need a source of income, and that’s new DLCs. Also bare in mind we have a new german route arriving, probably some time after SOS :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    1,760
    I'm afraid I don't agree with the majority here that this is a totally good thing.

    While there has been a trickle of DLC, as it currently stands, I feel we seem to already be in a period of hardly any first-party releases - UK content and all rolling stock DLC especially! So the thought of not having much first-party releases for an extended period following SOS, a route I already hold no interest and feel is taking up too much development time, is very frustrating.

    Why you ask? I know it's stating the obvious, but it's frustrating that many of these existing bugs should have already been fixed a long time ago. Granted that certain fixes are much-needed - such as the save game etc - but how realistic is it that a lot of the major bugs will actually be fixed, without new ones appearing too, as has been the case recently such as the 313 random derailment or the missing call-on signals on London Commuter etc.

    I appreciate bug fixes are important, but a lack of first-party releases is worrying for however long this period is. In the 'old days', the roadmap with a plethora DLC listed for the year or so ahead was an exciting time - the 313 might of been there for a long time, but my excitement for such releases kept me interested in the game and, most importantly, keeps the game fresh with new content.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  47. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,449
    Likes Received:
    2,129
    A full roadmap can also be advertisement. And the most important part, it keeps people interested.

    Also customers can make plans of their budget.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  48. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    598
    cloudyskies21 Most of us here shout ¨Fix the game, then release new content properly¨. This makes sense because content on a broken base is bad. Do we want another TS where the developers are afraid to touch bugs in order to not break the game due to its design? I surely don´t.

    All brands are running to provide new content as fast as possible, despite it not being needed but since the customer has been bombarded with the fact that it needs new content all the time, it actually thinks it needs content all the time.
    No, we don´t need content all the time. We don´t need to be told what we like. We need good experiences which are done with passion and involvement. And this takes time, lots of time.

    Are we upset that Euro truck launches a map expansion per year? Not at all, the reviews show ¨Very positive¨ next to each. What do we see next to expansions for TSW 2? Pfff, mediocrity.

    This is definitely needed. I am afraid it won´t receive the time it requires but we will see in the end what they do with this opportunity.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  49. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    488
    Or they just need ro read the timetable properly, and use the real data. Dynamic platform allocation isn't needed because the platforms are already specified in the WTT.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    1,623
    Let’s wish them well as I’m sure we’ll all see some benefit.
    Not that they will succeed in making everyone happy.

    Personally I’m looking forward to more sales if they need more revenue.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page