1970s Br Blue Western Region Pack

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by ARuscoe, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don't care either way, it depends on quality of engine and services, if both of those are fine then I don't really care. TS Classic got away with it after all, for example Reppo's E33, or Smokebox's Consolidation, both were made for routes which don't really fit them, doesn't ruin them though.
     
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  2. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    For me, if they're going to do a BR Blue Pack 1970's Western Region loco's then there's only one home for them, if a suitable home is not found then I shall wait until one is built.

    I shall not be running these on the NTP or TVL where they never ran and I also won't be running them on a 2015 GWML.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  3. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a preserved railway in the South West... wait that's not what you meant :cool:

    To be honest, that's probably most of what I'll do with them, mayhaps I'll run some of the rolling stock on TVL and NTP but probably not the locos. If there is no proper route for them it'll be rail tours and preserved railways for me.
     
  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is how I feel. I am quite a purist in that way and for me it is all to do with recreating something long gone not something which never was.
     
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  5. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    How much work/time would it take to edit the current GWE to look like the 70s? I wonder if this is what they might be offering in the pack?
     
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  6. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Could be interesting have the same route in different eras, I suppose at least some of the groundwork is already done, so that could cut work time a bit. Plus considering current circumstances, it's difficult to research on location, so it might work for diversifying content without the travel concern as it would mostly be done from photos and whatnot I imagine.
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Neither of these routes are realistic to run it on. Nor really a realistic or suitable option.

    GWE is set in 2015 and NTP is completely the wrong region for them to run on. Both are about as bad as each other if you want some kind of realism. This should be left for the scenario planner/off the rails mode. I don’t think many people would be happy to purchase a pack without a route set in the appropriate place and era for it too.

    Given how DTG aim to be as realistic as possible, I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they’ve got a route in production for it.
     
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  8. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    If that was the case then Smokebox wouldn't be around right now, his AT&N Consolidation didn't, and still doesn't make sense on any route within TS Classic. Likewise at the time Jupiter had no route where it fit, Donner Pass has a mild connection, but it doesn't exactly blend in with that route. There's also things like DTG's GG1, where the most realistic routes you can run that on is post 2000's NEC routes. DTM has also made lots of old stock, three examples I feel are relevant are the DD35, U50, and GP30, all of those are 70's era stuff, yet are all for modern day Sherman Hill.

    There's certainly people who will only buy engines that are in the correct time period and region, and there's even more where it's at least a influencing factor. But there's plenty of examples that show you don't need a route in the perfect era for locos to be successful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
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  9. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Given from the roadmap stream that they didn't announce a new route (as DTG's never does that) along with the Western Pack. It's too soon to speculate a new route at this time. So, I'm just gonna wait until the next roadmap to see the results with this loco pack. Peace!
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The only reason I raised the "new route scenario" is because to my knowledge DTG have never put out an asset pack that doesn't have a supporting period route to run it on.
     
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  11. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Show us photos from the Train.
    It’s bad to talk About something without pics in the thread
     
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know why "it's bad", but there aren't any pics as yet as they only announced the possibility on Tuesday
     
  13. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I mean Real Life Photos, it’s the same in the Suggestion Thread, when someone want a train but not show any photos
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Again, not sure why that's needed... I am not making a suggestion here but reacting to comment on the stream and asking what other people might suggest. Do you think that people's suggestions should be accompanied by pictures??
     
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  15. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Please don’t - pictures are great when they are needed to illustrate a point, but I am past picture books and would rather read someone’s thoughts and opinions.
     
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  16. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They have mixed periods a bit. The TS1 Liverpool to Manchester route was set in the recent period, it had Liverpool South Parkway station in situ when certainly in the late 90's it was still Allerton station. The stock which came with it was a BR Regional Railways class 158 and a Railfreight class 47, plus the Regional Railways class 101 stock pack.

    But I think in most cases they would want to create a more realistic situation where stock and routes matched.

    I suppose it depends how much you value realism. For me either scenario would be too much both NTP and GWE are too unrealistic. Obviously I am sure there are many who won't be bothered.
     
  17. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    think you meant the 8th of December?
     
  18. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    This is true for TSW so far. But since they haven't mentioned anything about a new route when talking about the Western Pack, I'm assuming that it'll be for GWE (which yes, maybe the wrong era for this pack. But, Adam did say that this pack was an old idea since the beginning of TSW).
    So unless there was supposed to be a new route on this roadmap, Just gonna have to wait and see on the next one if it will have a new route in the pipeline with the others or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  19. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I saw Adam announcing it, but I cannot find it a the roadmap yet...
     
  20. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    117's, 119's, 121's, 123's all good for a re-imaged Paddington - Reading.
    They all worked the suburban and outer suburban services, in the London Division.
    Could also run double headed Hymeks on South Wales expresses, as far as Reading.
    Perhaps DTG will feel generous and extend the route to Oxford, but i doubt it.
     
  21. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

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    That's correct, it's not on the roadmap yet.
     
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And TSx from my knowledge
     
  23. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the UP stock isn't even close to period correct, I mentioned the diesels earlier, but same applies to RSC's Big Boy, Challenger, and Gas Turbine. Other routes would be 90's Donner Pass, which has a 50's era Cab Forward, and modern NEC, which has the GG1.
     
  24. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    ★ [Loco Add-On] Great Western 1970's - BR Blue theme gameplay pack for GWE. (this also introduced Multiple Timetable support and is the first addon to use it). I called it :p
     
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  25. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    So will that basically mean we can choose between running the 1970s timetable and the modern?

    Also interesting what future implications this might have
     
  26. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    At least I'm right that it's for GWE. But a little surprise that it'll have multiple timetables on that route for the first time (meaning a 70s timetable separate from the default modern one). However, disappointed that they didn't put in what the locos will be included (Beside the 52). So, it's still anybody's guess on what's included since it's on 'In Planning' for now.

    (Still hoping for the Hymek however, or a 50. Either way)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  27. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Well obviously we have the 52, I imagine the 101 will form part of the time table too, plus certain TVL and NTP locos might be included for freight. Now they did describe as a well rounded pack so maybe 2 or 3 Locos/DMUs will probably be included I reckon, so I guess we'll wait and see what the other(s) might be.
     
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  28. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20201214-144551_kindlephoto-75989063.png Not sure if anyone noticed but it's on the roadmap now (Nevermind I see the post above)
     
  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are wrong about the class 101!

    The only class 101 vehicles working in the London division of the Western region in the 1970's, as far as I know as I have done lots of research when making scenarios for TS1, were three centre coaches allocated to Reading as spare vehicles. The class 117 was pretty much the default DMU for the lines out of Paddington with some class 121's for the branch lines. Class 101's started appearing at Reading depot in the middle to late 1980's. As a DMU enthusiast I find it a tad annoying that so little notice is taken of how realistically they are represented in the sim. If the same regard was shown to the diesel loco's there would be outrage on these forums!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  30. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Just wild speculation on my part, I know as much as anyone else
     
  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know, but I suspect you may be right as I imagine they think DMU's aren't as headline grabbing as a locomotive. Although they have a class 117 in TS1 so it's not improbable.
     
  32. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    Does the 117 have gears?
     
  33. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    Will the GWE route look different when operating the 70’s era content? No OHLE etc?
     
  34. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    I was going to ask the same, as the route will definitely look different today as it did in BR days. It doesn't have to be an exact replica, so could have same track and signalling but it'd be nice if stations were put into BR colours, OLE removing and possibly Westbourne Park platforms being put in.
     
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  35. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    It would be great if olden day era (Diesels) and modern day (EMU/DMU) era versions of GWE and NTP existed. Both would offer up substantial differences in gameplay. Like being able to travel at speeds of 80mph plus on NTP in a Class 185.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes works in the same way as the class 101, pretty much had the same engines and the same type of gearbox. The class 117's have a more raspy exhaust otherwise they wouldn't sound much different.

    I wonder if they will have perfected a kind of era changer. Really the OHEL wouldn't be there, neither the TPWS grids and the signals are old fashioned colour light. Reading station was very much rebuilt in the early 2010's and so would have looked different, otherwise the track work might not have changed much. North Pole depot wasn't there neither of course the Heathrow junction, not that I could see them getting rid of that. If you could remove the overhead lines and maybe have BR period station signs it might be enough.
     
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  37. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Unless they have changed some details of the route within the timetable layer. It'll may still be the same, modern, route no matter what era the add-on is from. I could be wrong. But, I don't see it as possible to modify the route for just one add-on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I suspect you are right. There was a era changer in MSTS which was obviously a totally different simulator. I wouldn't expect it to modify trackwork and signalling but if it removed the overhead wires and maybe changed stations signage it would help. As you say it probably isn't possible.
     
  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    If they don't modify the route appropriately, then its just gonna look so wrong running BR era stock on a modern route. Specifically with the modern stations, LED signalling and over head wires.
     
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  40. ralphy_porter2000

    ralphy_porter2000 Active Member

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    TBH the more I think about it the more it makes sense re era changer or a retro facelift for some of the routes. The question is do either of these possibilities provide DTG with bang for the buck -effort to sales ratio-. I can hear Sam in my head saying "Yes we would love to do it" and I dont doubt his sincerity as we all attracted to these sort of features. I for one think it is a good idea, as for a lot of players era can be a deal-breaker so not only will it make ALL routes more attractive as a sale from day one but people might buy it after taste specific
    DLC comes out for it. Not only that but a retro route with older stock will take longer to traverse mitigating some of the 'route too short' complaints. As well as this it gives 3rd party devs more scope and even if the player already has the DLC of the era that they like, because they are familiar -read enjoy playing- with the route they then would be more inclined to buy the DLC that's less relevant to them while they wait for more era-specific to their tastes...Being realistic here not implying mercenary but, back to my opening point re is it 'bang for the buck' is the answer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  41. arekev

    arekev Active Member

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  42. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t seen them because Mastery didn’t work for me but the Mastery rewards in TSW2020 were changes to the scenery, implemented in the game through a menu option. So I assume it’s possible to have different scenery on parts of a route already. I think it’s unlikely this pack would include huge areas of a route being changed to a different era unless it came out at a higher price than a loco DLC, especially as it already sounds like quite an extensive pack with a whole new timetable included, even if it is (and we don’t know if it is) possible for large areas to be changed by some similar method.
     
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  43. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Point of order, but GWE didn’t get an update for TSW2. All that changed was that some of the running stock on it now have sounds that they should have had from Day 1. A welcome update sure, but hardly relevant to this BR Blue era pack.

    Beyond the sounds of the resident stock, absolutely nothing changed on the actual route.
     
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  44. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    A great deal of change has been made to how the 166 and HST perform. It's more than just sound changes.
     
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  45. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Not. Changes. To. The. Route.

    The 166 performs no differently, and they admitted they had altered the HST acceleration curve such that it is now incorrect, and is now on the list of future fixes.

    As I said, changes to modern era rolling stock do not, in any way, mean there were changes to the actual route. The route did not get an update of any sort for TSW2.
     
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  46. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    You talked about just sounds changing on the stock, which is factually incorrect as more than that was changed. If you were talking about just the route then that could have been made much more clear....
     
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  47. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Forgive me, but I’m sure how I make it any clearer....

    “Beyond the sounds of the resident stock, absolutely nothing changed on the actual route.”

    It’s all about context. If you didn’t read the post I’m quoting, and responding to, then you’re taking what I’ve written out of context.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2020
  48. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you've not compared the 166 in TSW to TSW2.

    The 166 can now do over 90 mph. In addition both the acceleration and braking curves have been significantly altered. I've seen the list of significant changes (we're talking several pages here). It's a shame that DTG haven't published the list of changes.

    Yes, you've made it clear that all you believe has changed was sounds. I'm saying that it was more than that.
     
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  49. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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  50. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Last post on the matter, as you’re arguing a moot point and we’re going off topic.

    The post I was responding to said “GWR would be the route it would be on, not just because of region, but because of the rather large update it got for TSW2, and people have been wanting something new for the route for a long time” . I was pointing out, in response to that post, that there had been no changes to the route at all, only changes to the rolling stock. Hindsight tells us the route will be GWE, but it is not because of anything that was done to the route for its port into TSW2.

    re The Class 166 - as 90mph is it’s top speed I’ve never tried to go over it, and not noticed any difference in the way it brakes, variable adhesion aside. If there have been changes to the physics then great, but they are imperceptible to me. Granted, there have been some improvements and fixes to small things in the cab etc. but I didn’t go into them because again, it’s completely irrelevant to the point and context of my original post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2020
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