2022 Summer Release - Next Gen Only ?

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by saltychipz#3569, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I think it is safe to say dtg are starting to move away from last gen consoles now , and I can’t blame them for that . With all the capabilities of next gen and dtg wanting to utilise that , could it be possible that the 2022 summer release will not be on last gen consoles ? I do understand why it wouldn’t be on last gen , but it would still be frustrating . I want to know your thoughts on this , do you agree with me or not ? Thanks
     
  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the market share of last gen vs next gen.

    Xbox 360 was supported well after the Xbox One's release. I can't see why they can't continue in the same way they are doing now. We are not going to see another 4k service route soon anyway.
     
  3. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    We've said no such thing. Continue the debate by all means, but don't go putting words in our mouth ;)
     
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  4. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I worded it badly , it was an observation of something I think is quite likely
     
  5. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    In my view i cant see why they would drop support for 8th gen consoles as it generates income for DTG and will continue to do so well after Summer next year if they keep supporting...
     
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  6. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    The Xbox 360 lasted for so long after the Xbox One was for many reasons:
    The Xbox 360 was reletively powerful still around when the Xbox One came out
    Companies properly understood the limits of the Xbox 360 - Unlike Dovetail who forces the Xbox One to its knees
    Games were less demanding back the
    and TS was a PC exclusive - no console nonsense

    What I am worried about, is Steam. Given how bad the 3 Rush Hour routes run on Last Gen, I imagine steam would be worse.
    Given that Steam is either going to be Next Years Core Update or maybe a Late Winter/Early Spring Release like the original TSW on Xbox was, Dovetail do not have long - regardless of release - to Optimize TSW. It took them a Literal Year to upgrade to Next Gen from Release when most games - FIFA 21 - had a port sometimes days after release.

    I will continue to be the Person I am and Support Last Gen Discontinuation. Next Year, next gen consoles and PC will be in better circulation. Basically Dovetail have 3 Options:
    Leave Last Gen Supported and either make money from People buying TSW on Steam/Epic or lose money from people not buying DLC
    Fix Last Gen Performance and keep it supported for another 2 Years
    Completely Abandon Last Gen (Yes, do this)
    Last Gen Consoles came out 8 Years Ago, and were almost certainly being designed for 1-2, maybe more, years before then.
     
  7. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    There is no fixing of the performance. Either you "downgrade" the settings or restrict the content to have less strain on the system.

    Optimization is happening, but I'm convinced not to the point of making something like BML run smoothly on an 8 y/o system.

    TBH as long as it doesn't affect me as a last gen user they can do whatever they want with last gen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  8. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail already 'restricts' content on last gen consoles. Even before there was a Next Gen Xbox and PS4 never got the full GWE timetable. Think of it:
    The Munich Layers, The Brighton Layers, The GWE timetable, the 30FPS 2 Years before Next Gen existed, you name it, Dovetail has done it. All except one thing:
    The Graphics.
    The thing that is most likely to Improve Last Gen Performance is Graphics. The Actual Graphics have almost never been touched from what I remember. They stay the same across all routes. Look at PC. It has a Graphics Option to reduce the Graphics Settings for a Higher Framerate with the Tradeoff that you get worse Graphics. In Today's world, most normal people (including me) would take Performance over Graphics.
    If Dovetail gave this option to Last Gen Players, it would Relieve a lot of Criticism and would (probably) restore the Last Gen Consoles to 30 FPS like in the Old Days. I have seen TSW 2020 on Xbox One as my Brother used to play it on there. He had 20-30 FPS. Not Ideal but Definitely Playable. TSW2 Rush Hour? Well, just have a look at this stream from Amtrak Fan 55 from Late August:

    It shows extremely low framerates (Notably at the end of the stream) and long Load Times. This is a worse performance than ever before. Dovetail need to stop pushing these consoles. The problem:
    They Discontinue Last Gen - Everyone Angry
    They Fix Last Gen with Lower Graphics - Everyone is still upset
    They make the consoles as close with Parity to PC and Next Gen - Everyone Angry
    They fix last gen completely - People then bug Dovetail about another problem that will probably never get fixed
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  9. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I know last gen doesn't get all the content, and didn't in the past as well (GWE and HMA) as you pointed out. But that's not a way of fixing the performance.

    The graphics. AFAIK look better on Next Gen and should be closer to PC, and if they downgrade the graphics I believe it would be a core change - so it would affect previous DLCs as well, which is obviously not good.

    I would imagine they either change the core graphics for the whole last gen game or restrict the graphic of the DLC itself (impacting next-gen as well).
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  10. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Let me take you back to your FIFA Example.

    FIFA 21 came out with the option to Upgrade to Series X|S or PS5 if/when Available. This came in 2 seperate editions, of course.

    FIFA 22, the same.

    I think FIFA 23 may have the same unless Sony/MS sort things out.

    However, FIFA and TSW do the exact same thing. Next Gen gets more features than Last Gen, however the difference with FIFA is it's technically a seperate game.

    + Points to Dovetail.
    Do I think they should abandon Gen8 next Summer's release? Depends.
    Will the very large XONE/PS4 community be on Xbox Series or PS5 by that time? On that, will the business case be there?

    I currently find myself on Gen8 still (upgrading sooner rather than later) and I didn't think someone could be so unthoughtful for the majority of players of this game that these forums are a community of.

    Anyway, that aside, back to the topic.

    Last Gen - for me personally, I don't think will get Spirit of Steam, I think Steam could take a toll on the older consoles. However, I do doubt that'll be the end of the line (pun not intended) for Gen8.

    Either way, enjoy your crusade. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  11. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I so agree with you I don't see steam going to the last gen.

    And in all actuality they are making 5 different builds of the game. PC, PS4, PS5, Xbox One and Series X/S. So it does work the same as Fifa where it is 2 separate games, just DTG have it set up with both that you get the upgrade for free on the next-gen similar to EA.

    They said back in a stream way back earlier in the year when they announced there was going to be next gen version of the game made that the separate builds would allow them to give the next gen as close to PC if not the same and not hold either back from progressing as they reach the limits of the 8th gen consoles.

    It was in fact this statement alone that made me think oh crap my Xbox One is not going to be the same and will be restricted going forward. By that point I already had the money for a new console saved up because I knew I was going to upgrade anyways when MS announced the Series X. So it just made me work that much harder to find one.

    But with all the freakouts about no layers and maybe missing other features in the forums it seems many may not remember when they said that. They did warn us way back in like March/April.

    So I could very well see steam as the breaking point and that will be when DLC will come out exclusive to PC and next gen. I figure though steam will be next summers big thing so there will still be awhile.

    But they won't say that until they are sure. Just like MS who said flightsim was coming to the 8th and 9th gen consoles until 2 months before release when they decided it just wasn't going to be stable enough on the 8th gen and cancelled that build of the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Last gen players were able to access the full gwe timetable albeit with a little glitch in the journey mode in which you go to chapter 1, pick the london Paddington to bedwyn service, once loaded you exit and bam the extra services are there in tsw2/tsw2020 and there were no complaints of crashes at all though on last gen. I played that timetable on my Xbox One S at the time and the game ran just fine too. They probably would have if players were complaining of crashes but as far as I am aware there were no complaints on the forums. DTG never removed that so it's still playable on last gen. The Xbox One X is still a capable console which has 12GB of ram and that came out 4 years ago. The game is just not well optimizied on last gen and next gen consoles it seems considering the issues with ps5, xbox series s and some series x players. Why are some next gen users reporting poor framerates and memory crashes? Seems like poor optimization
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  13. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    Same old issues...New consoles...
     
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  14. aaronbrall#7894

    aaronbrall#7894 Member

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    They Discontinue Last Gen - Everyone Angry
    They Fix Last Gen with Lower Graphics - Everyone is still upset
    They make the consoles as close with Parity to PC and Next Gen - Everyone Angry
    They fix last gen completely - People then bug Dovetail about another problem that will probably never get fixed

    DTG gets a lot of criticism and rightfully so, like the 3 RH routes being problematic and so forth but I think what people also need to understand is what DTG do will always make a group of people angry and there is no way around that. the QA team of DTG isn't too great and action needs to be taken to ensure future content does not come out buggy like the RH contents, I expect some things to slip through cracks but a lot of the problems are inexcusable but the player base is also a very needy player base with absolutely no patience, I remember when Dresden released you had people on the Xbox side of things harassing DTG because the update rolled out at a different time to Sony and Steam, despite the fact DTG did tell the community that there was an issue regarding Microsoft and Xbox would get the DLC later on in the day, (it released around midday GMT on Xbox)
     
  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just sick of this notion that somehow last gen consoles can't handle rush hour when you have next gen users reporting similar issues. Choppy framerate, memory crashes. This is coming from a xbox series x player by the way. "Oh last gen couldn't handle the full GWE timetable" despite getting access to it via a glitch and it ran fine and nobody reported memory crashes and thus was never removed. Layers being activated for next gen users for bml and yet some next gen users are reporting lag, choppy framerate and memory crashes. Last gen getting layers removed only to cause crashes. For some they may not have crashes which is good but others have reported similar issues to that of last gen who has had layers removed. Some people can conclude that last gen can't handle rush hour but it seems like next gen has it's own set of problems and may not be able to handle it either it seems. It's not that either gen can't handle bml, it's that the game is not well optimizied. Are people gonna say that xbox series s support should be dropped since that has memory crashes on what is a next gen console? When both generations of console are reporting similar issues, people should take a pause and think why is this happening to some next gen users instead of just saying "Oh, last gen can't handle rush hour at all."

    DTG needs to really hammer in on optimization on this game because they way this released doesn't seem to show they done much work on optimization on both gen. These issues shouldn't have happened whatsoever on either gen.

    I might get London Commuter once most bugs are fixed and the texture issue is resolved
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  16. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    Truth is that DTG couldnt handle what they set to do on either gen...what does this SCREAM?
    Is quite clear that last gen can very well delivery an amazing experience STILL...after years with it they should know what it can or cannot do...again...what does this say?
    In my view things must change inside DTG or else no matter what system they are on it always going to face similar issues...
     
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  17. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Don't want to sound the master race elitist, but it seems like those issues are only for Series S.

    On Series X I've never dipped below 25fps at Victoria, albeit there could be that one service that I haven't played that might put more strain in the system
     
  18. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Not a ringing endorsement. Sub-50 FPS on a Series X game is at this point an absolute embarassment.
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    MSFS doesn't run at 60. At 4k I can't complain if in 2h route (all between 55 and 60fps) the last 2 minutes are 40/30/25.

    Series X is not a magic box that runs anything at 60fps. Is not like a 3k€ PC or something.

    The processor wouldn't meet DCS World's recommended specs.
     
  20. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    If you have a 120hz monitor that supports VRR, the Series X runs it at a variable rate between usually around 70 in cities to 119 or so over mountains.
     
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  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Sure. At 40.000ft over mountains. Whenever you get close to the ground where it actually has to draw objects and such, you don't even get constant 30fps depending if there are players around you, your plane, weather conditions etc...

    Well... TSW is constantly under the same conditions and wasn't bankrolled by Microsoft, and it has better performance everywhere apart some specific areas
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  22. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Flying low enough over London or NY or something sure, you'll start to notice the FPS really drop to like sub-50 when moving the external camera a lot. But in most realistic scenarios, it's gonna be over 60.
     
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  23. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Try spawning at Heathrow with rain and live traffic. It's definitely not 60fps, not even close
     
  24. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    But the point is of course that 60fps is basically the standard this gen. It's what games are finally actually targeting after the last gen console hardware kept them stuck at 30. The overwhelming majority of console releases now run at 60, or perhaps 30 in their raytracing modes (Because earlier games this gen didn't optimise their use of RT for individual things like ambient occlusion or reflections that it handles better than screenspace solutions, and ended up overly taxing the new systems) with some exceptions like Doom Eternal which runs really nicely at 60 with raytracing vs 120 without.

    The major consequence of this is that lower FPS in any game gets WAY more noticeable to average players.
    I still get frustrated when many games don't offer a 1440p mode on Series X, and insist on pushing native 4k, when they could easily hit a locked 60 at the lower resolution.
    Honestly I'd still mostly love to see a lower res unlocked FPS mode for TSW2 on Series X, where I can get the most out of my monitor's refresh rate.
     
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  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Just throwing it out here - The XBox Series consoles offer the PERFECT opportunity for this. You already have the scaled down config settings for games to load if they detect they're on a Series S right there. Just stick a menu option to use those settings on Series X as a performance mode and you're good to go. Pretty sure I've seen a handful of games do exactly this already.

    I know DTG have responded on streams to suggestions of allowing the Series S settings on Series X in order to push higher framerates rather than only giving us the 4k mode, saying they might consider it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and, in fact BML and BRD run at 60fps for 95% of the route, with some slowdowns on the more built up areas, a trade I'm willing to make if it means having a lot of traffic or denser/better looking landscape.

    And even on the heavier areas the FPS don't get as low as 18-20 fps like RSN on old gen. 25/30 is not good, but it won't make your eyes bleed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  27. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, I've got so used to 60-120 that anything sub-50 looks like a slideshow to me now. It's a shame, as it makes very good older games that have no FPS boost option on Series consoles hard to enjoy.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Still a next gen console. You may have not had an issue but some on series x along with PS5 have which had me suprised
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021

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