I feel like most people who play TSW would agree with at least one of the following statements: 1. The more different types of journey a route offers the longer its life and therefore the better the value 2. Realistically frequent and varied traffic adds hugely to the immersion level of a route. 3. Timetable mode is TSW's real USP, and has the most potential. Unfortunately, we are constrained by the rolling stock available, and increasingly it's clear that there isn't enough - and with a 1 new train per route schedule there never will be. Lately the number of routes has increased hugely, but the amount of rolling stock is lacking, so we get routes like Cathcart, LGV Med, Lucerne and seemingly Cross City that feel bereft, like a wasted opportunity. Yes there's livery editor and scenario planner, which are great, but can only do so much. With German addons we're in a better situation because most existing DLC can be used across the country, and while that's harder in the UK and other countries, it is possible to work towards a a collection of available trains which suit multiple routes, even if a different livery is needed here and there. Two things have made his more viable, I feel: a) the increase in external developers b) training centre meaning that people can more easily buy rolling stock. So let's use this opportunity: I propose that 2023 is The Year Of Rolling Stock DLC, with new routes taking a back seat to allowing us to pack out our virtual sheds. Here are 26 suggestions that fit one or more of the existing routes. I've tried to put utility above purely what I'd like to see. UK: 1. Class 158 2. Class 170/171 3. Class 220/221 4. A/C Mk2 coaches (incl. a livery-apt 47) 5. Class 319 6. Class 700 7. [a tank engine for spirit of steam] 8. Class 67 9. Class 142 10. Class 320/321 11. Class 387 12. Class 156 13. BR-era HST France: 14. TGV-Reseau 15. TGV-RD Switzerland: 16. SBB 420 + EW4 17. SBB 482 18. SBB Kolibri Germany: 19. Class 120 + remaining IC coaches 20. IC2 21. ICE-T 22. Class 111+ n-Wagen 23. Class 628 USA: 24. GE Genesis + Viewliner coaches 25. Metro-North M9 26. MN Genesis + Shoreline
Excellent Idea and you forgot DB BR189 since it´s used to run Heavy 6 kilotons of Iron Ore Freight using AK couplers Faals Fallrrs Iron Ore Waggons followed by Falnqqs130 AK coupler for the Werdohl Elverlingsen Power Station on RSN and Steel Mills on RSN. DB BR1440 The German Happy Train and it needs RRO HRR DCZ destinations list. US Amtrak P42DC with Amfleet II Viewliner II for NEC Boston this is used on trains 65 67 66 the Night Owl service due to OHLE being cut. Cajon and Sand Patch get the Superliner IIs. UK Class 60 trades HP for tractive effort Other than those This exists as the Harlem Line M7A
Where would these actually fit? The only route in TSW that Amtrak currently uses Viewliner coaches on is Boston but its only for the Lake Shore Limited, which doesn't have much on the route, unless the SW1000 gets reintroduced with it for shunting activities in Boston, this doesn't fit at all.....
Yeah that must have been an error I was thinking of the M9? The red one. The coaches you refer to is what I was thinking of, I'm showing my ignorance when it comes to the US, but essentially I was thinking: add Amtrak to the rural routes where applicable. The 189 isn't a major priority imo as it's a contemporary German freight locomotive and there are already 8 of those. It's not so much about absolutely completing a route - the list falls way short of that - it's about having a foundation so that most routes can have a realistic amount and variety of the services on it. While RRO and HRR don't have the exact current EMUs on every route, they're not really lacking (more for Fernverkehr - which a timetable update can largely fixed), whereas a route like Luzern or Cathcart has *nothing* else to see or do, and that's the sort of thing this aims to fix.
UK: Class 380 Class 385 Class 800 Class 156 Class 158 Class 802 Night Riveara Sleeper USA: Coast Starlight Germany: ICE 4
The Coast Starlight itself only runs on the Peninsula Corridor in TSW. and barley even a few miles. Not worth it by itself..... (Amtrak long distance stock would be valuable though as a whole.
Red paint is called M8 American counterpart to 387/2 Germany PZB 15kv 16.7hz Third Rail Hamburg 474.4 490. For Germany DTG needs to get Ostalgia with DR V60 DR Baureihe 104-106 DR Baureihe 118 DR Baureihe 211/242 & DR Baureihe 119 U-boat with Y wagen DR and Rekowagen. Good points
If I'm correct their planning on adding the class 232 to the game for rung nord becuase I tried to see if a br class 232 existed and I got a German loco with a link on tsw3
Though some of the rolling stock you list kind of needs a new route to fit properly, I do very much agree that there is a huge need for more rolling stock (variety) in TSW3. I also think that more 3rd parties could and should play a role in this, be it with enough guidance from DTG to not have the BR 187 happen again. As you say, timetable mode is one of TSW's unique selling points, and apart from the fact that I am now used to being able to walk around, the primary reason I can't go back to TS. Timetables make or break routes, with recent German ones being quite good and varied, but only because Germany has a sufficient pool of rolling stock to use for layers, and even that pool feels monotonous due to all the Dostos. Take München - Augsburg for example: a great route, but with one of Germany's biggest terminal stations being practically empty and the timetable itself being a repetition of the same services over and over again with no variation (it really doesn't matter what RE or freight service you pick, they're all the same). That makes the route a bit bland and my least played German route. Apart from that there is also an issue with rolling stock being 'wasted', such as the Falns wagons of the BR 155 only appearing on RSN. However, with the inclusion of cement wagons on GWE in the timetable upgrade and the inclusion of DB hoppers and tanker wagons on the new SEHS timetable I think this is rapidly becoming less of a problem, I'm just hoping German and US releases follow this pattern. Back to the main point: TSW is fun because is has timetables making it feel more like the real life interconnected system that railways are in real life. timetables are more fun when their filled with a variety of services, operated by a variety of rolling stock, including AI services. To represent these services rolling stock is needed that is not present in the game right now. Thus more rolling stock DLC's are needed. Personally I'd still be happy with some route releases that come with more new rolling stock aswell, further enhancing the rolling stock pool, but to fill up older routes you'd need rolling stock add-ons for those routes, hopefully paired with a good timetable update seen as the recently released timetables are (usually*) miles ahead of older ones. Lets hope for a year that sees more 3rd party (loco add-on) releases by more 3rd party creators, alongside some DTG loco add-ons of course! *for some reason RSN still has a very good timetable to this day, even though the route is ancient. It could still be upgraded by giving RSN the SEHS treatment and extending it to Siegen while including the previous DLC locos for it as standard and integrating a timetable upgrade.
Br is short for Baureihe, which effectively means class. I agree that there's work that can be done with the existing routes too: many of the German routes have stock that can appear already, and are in need of a timetable review, which fits into my other suggestion of the timetable crew, which could exist in parallel.
fully agree.. In fact, I was just thinking about that last night.. DTG seem to be getting around this issue by layering in existing DLCs such as with WCL were locos and rolling stock as well as the TVL Class 37/5 has been layered onto WCL to make it more busy with this new route (Birmingham Cross City), if there is any freight that use any section of the line, I bet you that they will layer in the 66 and either the MFAs or JNAs
As a UK only route player, I can suggest the following for UK routes already featured... Class 03 Class 05 Class 485 & 486 Class 50 Class 43 Valenta Class 118 Class 122 Class 56 Class 142 Class 143 Class 57 Class 59/0 & 59/1 Class 60 Class 66/7 Class 165/1 Class 180 Class 14 Class 35 Class 42 & 43 (original) Class 318 Class 22 Class 53 Class 117 & 121 Class 123 Class 128 Class 25 Class 124 Class 141 Class 33/1 & 33/2 Class 73 Class 455 Class 92 Class 465 (other variants) Class 466 Mostly era specific to the periods featured in game. And to finish, a few oddballs that don't necessarily get a specific era or route per se... Class 41 Warship Class 151 Class 210 Class 403 5BEL BRCW Lion HS4000 Kestrel
Fully agree with the OP. High time some of these old routes got a breath of life with some new train DLC. Not just in its own right, but something like a Class 56 for TVL or NTP, or more up to date on BML a Class 319, 700 or more appropriate suburban stock could also boost sales of the route itself. Oh and add Class 120 to the list of heritage DMU's, though we don't really have a route to run it on.
1) great to see I'm not the only UK-only route player 2) Yes fully agree however, you didn't mention the Deltic.
Another wish-list here You always forget that there is only a hand full of people who are able to create that stuff. So, this yet short list would need maybe 20 years to get processed. I would therefor rename that thread to "2043 - The year we maybe have some of our wishes in game" Those things are not growing on trees, not even nearly. You can't go onto the market (the asset market) and buy trains. If you do so (i did that a few times) you waste your money mostly. You need especially trained 3d artists and programmers and audio people for creating trains for this game. There are not a lot of them. And finding new ones is harder than getting access to a not (anymore) existing loco.
I get all that - and it's why the general principle - that the rate of new routes is outpacing new trains and something needs to be done. I don't expect everything on the list to be built in the time frame - as the title of the forum says - it's "suggestions", but I *do* think the focus needs to move towards rolling stock, and the decisions for what to make should prioritise a) versatility, and b) plugging gaps in current timetables. Because if another 13 routes come out next year with only 10 new trains, the issue of deserted short-shelf-life routes is only going to get worse, for the reasons you say. Now is the time to build that foundation - like we have for German routes - so that almost any route can have the immersiveness and long-life of Riesa - Dresden. 3rd party developers need to be a part of that - as I say the fact that more are coming on stream are welcome - but whether I get exactly the trains I suggest, I think this needs to be the direction. We are a fairly captive market - there aren't many competitors - and TSW is a fairly closed shop, so we're completely at the mercy of TSW's decisions. That's why an empty New Street, or Glasgow Central, or Luzern feels like such a wasted opportunity.
... and the possibilities to get information, measurements / drawings, detailed imagery, audio and knowledge how it works to create these ... it's not only a "I have a route A and i need Train B" thing. There is so much more to consider when deciding what train you can create next for the game. What do you think how many people that are? 10, 20 or 100? Same as i said. They not growing on trees, no matter if they are employed to DTG or 3pp. It's the same as with TS1. It's a limited number of staff that can even do that special trains work for a game.
I'm absolutely not saying there's not - I'm sure there are lots of considerations, licensing too of course, all I'm suggesting is, the utility of trains on current - and future - routes should be a major factor of the many that goes into the decision making. Looking to enhance the (quite large) collection of content that already exists rather than always moving onto the next thing - and when moving onto the next thing, thinking about what might service future and past routes. I'm not 100% what you mean by this. I'm not talking about people, what I mean is, for German routes we have a nice foundation of stock that's built up over time, so that if they were to release a route tomorrow, it would matter less if it only came with one new train, because there's so much to layer in. For other countries we don't have that - there are mitigations of course, and it's harder in the UK, but I'm making suggestions - and encouraging others to - for trains where that can work. I don't doubt it but it's good that more are coming on board and long may that continue. Training centre also removes a barrier to new rolling stock, making it much easier to sell, so let's hope DTG take advantage.
That's already done this way, always and since i am at making this stuff (nearly 12 years now). Developers know that. Decisionmakers know that. All know that. But it's not that easy as it sounds. We often have to make compromises to get any product done. Not only the Game itself is a Game, but the development too is a (quite ugly) decision-making-game (often against the good ideas and own high standards). I will not reply on the rest. We will dive into an endless discussion. But i have to make trains not discuss the making
Only because we currently do not have ECML. Great for WSR but the Deltics need a mainline for a proper thrash.
Here is a list of ideas I want to see: -US: -GE ET44AC Tier 4 GEVO in UP, NS, and CSX liveries; BNSF ET44C4 -C44-9W in BNSF and UP liveries; NS C40-9/C40-9W/AC44C6M; BNSF AC44C4M -SD70ACe (NS, BNSF, and CSX)/CN SD70M-2 -SD70M (UP) and SD70MAC (BNSF, CSX); BNSF SD75M/BNSF and CN SD75I -SD70ACe-T4 (UP, CSX, BNSF, EMD/Progress Rail Prototype) -GP60 (BNSF, ATSF, NS, UP, and CSX)/BNSF GP60M/GP60B -CW60AC/CW4460AC/C44ACM (UP, CSX, GE Prototype) -SD90MAC/SD90-43MAC (UP, NS SD70ACU) -SD80MAC (Conrail, NS, and CSX) -B40-8W (ATSF and BNSF) -Siemens Chargers -P42DC/P40DC/P32AC-DM Genesis -P32-8BWH -F40PH (Amtrak and more Commuter operators) -Classic diesels: -SD7/SD9 -GP7/GP9 -GP20 -SD24 -FT, F3, F7, F9, FP7 (A and B units) -Alco RS3, RSD15, PA/PB, FA/FB -Baldwin switchers, Sharknose RF-16, Centipede, etc. -GE U-Boats and/or Dash-7s -GE 44-Tonners -GP30 -GP35 -SD35 -SD18 -GP18 -EMD and Alco Switchers (S2, NW2, SW1500, MP15, etc.) -FM Trainmasters, H-15-44, H-16-44, H-12-44, Erie-Built, C-Liners -UK: -Class 55 Deltic -Class 70 -Class 67 -More British Steam (Black 5, A3 Pacific, A4 Pacific, etc.) -Class 50 -Class 60 -Class 57 -Class 47 -Germany: -Class 232 -V200 -Class 218 -Kriegslok 2-10-0
Well we know DTG had, presumably still have, 3D modellers who can do classic UK diesels or we wouldn't have the Class 20, 37, 40, 45 and 47 or MetCam DMU. Besides while noting what Maik say, this still comes back to DTG sitting on the tools/documentation and only making them available to limited third parties. Maybe now is the time to try and bring in more talent, whether for building routes or loco's/rolling stock by opening up the creation side including hobby level freeware.
I am modest, my only wish is the white LNER Class 91, however, activities with the rear cab should not be forgotten.
No, that's not really THE Problem. It was the same with TS1 and even MSTS back the days and there the docs and tools were open. The amount of experienced, patient, interested and with special knowledge packed people is limited on this wonderful blue marble, especially when it comes to do it commercially. There are way easier ways to make money than creating trains for a train simulator. Of course, DTG has them, all of them i believe, and they are not a full-blown army that could put out a full working train a week. Where should the additional people come from? From trees? Ah no, they do not grow on trees as we already accepted
Then you nurture the talent by opening it up. Exactly what happened with MSTS. I dabbled with the route editor. put out a couple of freeware routes then was asked by 3D Train Stuff to do a route for them (Cambrian Coast) and subsequently Blue Arrow the little route from Woking to Basingstoke for their Southern loco and stock pack. I didn't do it for a living or to get rich, but mainly for the satisfaction of working in a team and doing something I could never have achieved solo. In fact when income tax on the royalties was factored in, there was probably enough for a few beers - certainly not an offshore bank account in the Caymans and my own private yacht. Yes they can't put out a working train a week but TSW has been in existence for five years now yet new UK traction and rolling stock has slowed to a crawl. We couldn't even get a Mark One buffet car for Spirit Of Steam...
MSTS was 10 times easier than TS1 (TSC/RailSimulator/Railworks .. whatever you want to call it) and TS1 is 20 times easier than TSW (IMO). So even for freeware people that have the will to learn years to get something out of it, it would be a hard thing to do. As you say, the possibilities to make money is not their interest in first place, but TSW content can't be created in spare time at all. That's a fulltime job. And a fulltime job means what i said above. Not lots of people that can do that at all. I'm pretty sure i am not able to tell what i really want to tell without breaking the NDA nor do i have the time to do that. It's all quite different than your sight is from the outside. Come into the 3pp programm (when you already made train sim stuff that's not a huge step) and get it by yourself.
The best solution would seemingly be to choose routes in an order where new stock has maximum reuse potential elsewhere, e.g. a Class 800 included with a hypothetical ECML South would then provide the basis for a Class 802 on a route like Exeter to Plymouth later on, which itself could utilise the Class 150, Class 166 and HST we already have. We could then get a route like Edinburgh to Dundee, using the GWE HST rebuilt into the Scotrail configuration, and a Class 170 for the local services. The Class 170 could potentially end up reused on Cross-City for the Worcester/Hereford services. A Class 800 as mentioned above could also layer on. Lots of possible combinations like these... Although it's much easier said than done I would strongly presume.
One Major problem with that. There is no M9 for Metro North ;;-;;. Thing is, It would make more sense to Do an M8 with an extension. Rather have that since it would make ju4ch more sense
These are excellent choices Want older German trains Then go East Germany Deutsche Reichsbahn DR Baureihe 211 & 242 Baureihe 104-106 V60 Czechoslovakia Built Baureihe 107 & 230 Ukrainian built DR Baureihe 120 M62 65.10 52.80 comes with DR-Y Wagen and Rekowagen
Agreed, was going to post similar earlier but got sidetracked. Likewise, a 4 VEP or EPB could appear in a retro layer on both SEHS and BML. A Class 56 could be used on TVL, NTP and even GWE as they are still about now. And coming back to Maik's comments, which I have every respect for, at the end of the day we are the customer with a particular demand. It is not our fault DTG whether by choice of the game engine or restricting access to developers have put a huge production hurdle in the way of making additional trainsets or routes.
Correct and furthermore there's also 4CEP 411 432 4REP those also fit on BML SEHS and ECW. Can a 4SUB 4CIG work well for BML/SEHS Slam Door Pack or not?.
That's a good list of uk rolling stock, I'd like to see a class 172 aswell due to its unique drivetrain (no pun intended). I also can't believe that a 142 wasn't added to the transpennine route either.
The Class 172 has a similar drivetrain to the Class 165/166 as the Turbostar is a evolution of the Turbos. As for the Class 142 on NTP, the route was set around 2 years before their introduction but the Class 141 would have been brand new on Leeds area services at that time operating as far as Huddersfield.
I agree with the idea of Amtrak services on rural routes, it’s certainly lacking. The M8 and P32 would also be great, but I don’t think they run the full Harlem Line iirc
my list for UK 1 class 700 2 class 185 3 class 91 with mk 4 coaches and 82 4 class 387 5 class 801 6 class 444 7 class 450 8 class 350/4 9 class 68 10 class 802 11 class 43 (intercity livery) 12 class 50 for France 13 TGV Euroduplex 2N2 3UA 14 TGV réseau (Tricourant) 15 TGV pos 16 TGV réseau duplex for germany 17 BR 111 18 BR 186 19 BR 407 20 BR 446 21 BR 120+pilot coach 22 BR 440 for Swiss 23 RE 460 24 Rabe 511 25 Radbe 500 For usa 26 AEM-7 27 HHP-8 28 M9 (lirr) 29 Avelia liberty 30 DE30AC 31 DM30AC and for scotland 32 Class 320 33 Class 380
for me the policy of 1 train for 1 line is really not terrible for me I think that the number of lines that come out per year should be reduced as the DLCs may cost slightly more expensive but there are more new trains or more extansion for map
What are the scenery artists doing during this massive lean on locos? I would imagine there are far more people who can do scenery work than there are specialist loco devs (as Maik says) so are you intending on no new routes being produced during this time? I completely agree we need MORE loco and MU assets in game, preferably ones with much wider usage than are being developed at the moment (the 323 is a shout, but is also fairly limited). Units like the 158, 170, 153, 155 get just about everywhere. We've got some versions of the 47 and 37 to fill in on freight and loco hauled back in the day I guess if the locos we have now are used for routes built over the next year with the knowledge that a lot more new trains are coming that might be a thing but I'm sure people would scream at more Electrostar or urban commuter routes using the same stock
