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Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by NSMotherSlug#881, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    So, here's a Question to everyone especially the Veterans of TSW.

    Why did you get TSW2 ? was it because of the the Promise of "Steam Locomotive's" and or "Multi-player" online or was it something else, And I'm not talking graphic's, because TSW had graphic's yes TSW2 improved them but at the time we couldn't argue.

    Reason's why i ask this is simply because of most of us bought into the idea of STEAM LOCOMOTIVE'S which we NEVER GOT in TSW.

    TSW released July 24th 2018
    TSW2 released August 20th 2020

    Yet there's NO TALK about Steam Locomotives from anyone from Dovetail or even Multi-player !

    You would think Dovetail would be at it in developing STEAM LOCOMOTIVES or sharing anything about Steam Engines given most of all of us are waiting for but all i hear is Crickets. Why....Why do you think that's so ? I honestly don't think they can pull it off that's my thought but what do you think, leave a message on your thought's below Curious ?
     
  2. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    We know they have been talking about both internally, and that they have even done tests. Right now DTG is not actively working on those things, which is why it is not in the roadmap.

    TL;DR: Steam locomotives and multiplayer are not coming anytime soon.
     
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  3. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    They’ve said they want to do it it’s just an immense amount of work and stuff to figure out, if you think you could do it then please give it a shot. I enjoy the game a bunch as is, of course I would love steam but I don’t think it’s worth getting your knickers in a bunch over. When and if it’s done we will be able to play it and it’ll be simple as that.
     
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  4. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I bought it for CSX: HH way back in the day because it was, and still is, an extremely interactive and involved simulation of heavy American freight hauling. The first-person perspective was alluring and novel, making it feel more immersive and allowing you to "walk" your train like an actual crew member.

    As for TSW2, I got it for Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen with the other goodies being a bonus.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  5. Celendis

    Celendis Member

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    I didn't buy TSW for the promise of steam engines or multiplayer. I bought it because it let me leave the cab and it looked better than Train Simulator. I got TSW2 for three simple reasons: I keep my TSW stuff (mostly), the value of the additional routes and trains in the base TSW2 game, and most importantly because I need TSW2 to get future routes and locos.

    I hear that you are frustrated about the lack of steam and the broken promises about multiplayer, but I urge you to let go of the anger. Holding onto anger will not help you feel better, and it won't magically make Dovetail implement anything. Dovetail knows their community is upset and are trying to better communicate in their roadmap updates. While I am sure that Dovetail is planning on many things for TSW2's future, they rightly can't discuss those plans with the community because to do so would set an expectation for TSW2 that might turn out to be impossible for them to implement. With TSW, they talked about hopes and promised what they thought they could achieve and didn't, which enraged the community. I prefer this "refer to the roadmap" era, because it shows that Dovetail has learned to stop hyping possibilities and instead discuss firm reality.
     
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  6. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t buy for steam engines or multiplayer. In fact I’d actively dislike multiplayer and I’m indifferent to steam engines.

    However I did buy for the scenario planner which has unfortunately turned out to be a unsatisfactory version of quick drive which doesn’t work.
    Doors have to be opened the wrong side at stations, trains spawn backwards, limited paths make for poor immersion as massive stations and yards are empty and now to top it all NTP and GWE don’t work at all.
    I do understand they are waiting to send out a patch but even then the paths look extremely limited on NTP to a point where it’s hardly worth bothering.

    To be fair to DTG they have been very transparent over the last 6 months and they’ve made it very clear that multiplayer and steam engines are not coming anytime soon.
     
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Bought it to get the most up to date version and the Bakerloo Line.

    Plus any new route/traction add ons I might be interested in are only going to work in the new version.

    Personally no interest in multiplayer (it's a waste of time in the new MSFS IMHO) but I would like to see steam locos on the S&D out of Bath Green Park or a nice 9F on a Windcutter running up from Rugby towards Catesby Tunnel and Charwelton at some stage.
     
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  8. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

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    Building an accurate steam model is much more challenging than building an equivalent diesel or electric - the controls, visual effects, sounds and the physics are all far more complex*. If it takes twice (almost certainly an under-estimate) as long to build a steam route or loco, how many customers would be prepared to pay twice as much for it? I'll add another vote to those uninterested in multi-player.

    * A truly accurate simulation would need to take into account the variations between individual locos. No driver today is really that concerned which individual loco they're allocated, but in the days of steam there was a huge difference between a works-fresh machine, with all its joints nice and tight, and one approaching its next overhaul leaking steam from every pore. And every shed had its 'clunker' which wouldn't fire properly, no matter what you did :). That really would make for a fun game!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I got TSW for what it contained at the time, not what it may contain in the future. I knew there weren’t steam trains in it from looking on this forum before buying it. I knew that new content would be released but obviously not what that was.

    If I’d specifically wanted steam trains I’d have bought a train simulator that had steam trains already in it.

    I got TSW2 because it was the continuation of TSW and again not for the promise of any kind of specific content that wasn’t already in it. There was even a FAQ released that said that steam wasn’t going to be in it.

    There are a couple of things that are holding back steam from what I can see. The first one is the steam effects that they can’t yet do. The second is all the moving parts animation on the wheels which needs to work well and look good at speed and also be compatible with motion blur. And thirdly, but cited as the main reason when DTG talk about it, is how the players will interact with all the extra controls of a steam train. To me, the function of being the fireman as well as driver could be easy to turn on and off like a safety system in current trains, but the other thing is them possibly making a second control system (just a faster/slower control) for those players that would even find just the driving controls difficult. This may be needed to keep that section of the player base (which they need to expand outside of just train enthusiasts) buying steam train DLC to make producing them commercially viable.
     
  10. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    I bought TSW because I was fed up with TS crashes and repeated lag.
    In TSW there are no such problems, it's very fluid I never had any game crashes, my game is completely "virgin" of mods.
    In addition, you can walk around and he is so much more imersive than TS.

    For steam locomotives I don't really care, I prefer freight and in this case I would prefer new roads in the USA or other countries as long as it is preferably old diesel loco.

    For the multiplayer, I hate it so it suits me although it is not, the multi is always rotten by a moron, I never play multi and whatever game I own.

    My priority on TSW2, longer and more diversified routes, in particular from other countries such as Japan for example or Russia.
    In short, I love TSW2 much more than any of my other train games.

    Thanks DTG.
     
  11. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    Immersiveness - being able to walk around adds to this massively, also it feels like the train is a lot more interactive than they were in TS Classic.
    Timetable mode is so much better than getting 5 scenarios with a route and then having to either make your own or download a new one every time you want to run it. With timetable mode I get up to 400 scenarios with a route that use the real timetable.
    Layers - Especially if you own German content, some of my routes are much much busier than their TS equivalents with layers.
    Multiplayer isn't necessarily my thing for a train simulator game but I'll definitely give it a try.
    Steam locos I'm not bothered about.

    As above I would also like routes from more places - especially Japan (I'm hoping Union Workshop might start working on TSW2 content in the near future if DTG won't right now). Longer routes would be nice as well of course but I've seen from the recent LGV Mediterrannee dev diary they are working on using AI to do this. So really, progress in all areas with the game I feel.

    Also I feel like Dovetail are a thousand times more open and listening to their customers now than they were a year ago

    Also please don't use caps in your writing, its really annoying, its like reading a tabloid headline. Awful.
     
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  12. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I am so absolutely not interested in steam locomotives and actually ok with "can't do, need more modification to UE".

    Got TSW2 because TSW1 was abandoned. Wouldn't have transitioned so fast if there would be no preserved collection but still being a little sceptical until they got time to get rid of the flaws due to the last engine modification ;-)

    The new stuff is absolutely okay for me quality wise, shunting a lot recently ...
     
  13. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Source?

    To be fair to DTG, this time around no false promise was made.... You can consider as a "promise" something like we will improve preserved content over time, but that came after TSW2 release actually.

    The lies of editor, multiplayer etc. were made for TSW1 back in the days and that led to DTG losing almost all credibility.
     
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  14. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Without preserved inclusion, not sure I would have bought TSW2. Glad I have now though.
     
  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/about-trainsimworld

    I think most people did read this FAQ written before release which answers all of your questions.

    Why no Steamers?
    Train Sim World 2 is the large update we needed before we can get steam engines right. We won’t release any until we can be sure we’re going to do them the justice they and you deserve. Steam locos will need another engine upgrade to make sure that particle effects do justice to performance and visuals, as well as a bespoke SimuGraph® upgrade to handle the unique experience of steam locos. Sound recreation is very important, as is detailed training and in-cab support during gameplay. It’s a very large jump from passenger and freight, which we have concentrated on perfecting so far, and high speed – a key focus for this year. After this we’ll continue our work towards steam.

    Where is Multiplayer?
    We want to bring Multiplayer to Train Sim World, and we now have a design that we think will give a great social experience. It’s been crucial to design based on the experience of the mode, bringing the right roles and communication to our online experience. Multiplayer is not part of Train Sim World 2, but it’s on our future roadmap.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  16. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    i've had the game since founders edition on the xbox and for me multiplayer isn't a concern for me that needs to be added to the game i'm not really fussed with steam engines but i know it will still be a while yet as they said they need to make an engine update to allow this. the reason why i got tsw 2 was well it was a bargain to get 3 routes that i quite like to play and with preserved collection i can carry on playing these routes and play future routes which i have an interest in all of them
     
  17. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    I certainly don't remember any specific promises that either steam locomotives or multiplayer would be forthcoming with TSW2 and while steam would be great, multiplayer doesn't interest me at all. TSW2 was described as an upgrade, I was interested in the route Köln ~ Aachen, and the cost was reasonable. Simple as that.

    Oh, as this was addressed to TSW veterans ~ I've had TSW since the autumn of 2018 I think ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  18. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    I don't care steam locos (not yet) or multiplayer, just bought TSW 2 because of the revised CSX heavy haul,
    all the new features and future DLC.

    Finally there are high speed trains like the ICE (which I waited years for) or the upcoming TGV,
    LZB safety system and all the other new stuff etc..
    The fact that I can use all my old DLC in TSW 2 is a bonus for me too and more than welcome.

    In my opinion TSW doesn't need a multiplayer, what should the second player do all the time, just sit around?
    I imagine it to be super funny if you see each other for less than 3 seconds while racing past each other and honk (irony).
    DTG should not waste time with multiplayer, not in the near future. There are enough more important things to do yet.

    But everyone thinks different and I respect the opinion of those who want multiplayer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  19. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    For me it's just an evolutionary step from MSTS to Railsim to TS and now TSW and TSW2. The immersive, first person aspect is the real attraction along with being able to interact with the locomotives and the environment. Plus I think the potential is enormous with the Unreal engine. Don't see myself involved with multiplayer but steam might be fun when it comes along.
     
  20. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I bought TSW solely for the graphics
    I have a spare hard drive full of TS stuff that I never play.

    Multiplayer doesn't interest me.
    No wish to meet juvenile thrill seekers online.

    Steam engines nearly always needed two people.
    One to keep it rolling, the other to drive it.
    Do you want to be the guy spending half an hour shovelling coal?
    Real authenticity.
    For variety you could have different quality coals, some in large pieces you need to break up before using, or just poor quality requiring double the work.
    I'm happy to wait until they come up with a workable compromise.
     
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  21. hibiki

    hibiki Active Member

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    The reason why I bought TSW was for the North Trans Pennine route and got TSW2 for anything that new gets released. Personally I am another in the not bothered about Steam or Multiplayer. Especially the latter. I have always prefered to play solo.
     
  22. diamondderp

    diamondderp Guest

    I buyed TSW2 for the ICE 3M and Bakerloo line. I completely forgot about steam trains and multi-player, I don't care because I don't need it in my opinion just because Im the modern-train fan and I just don't need multi-player.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2020
  23. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I bought TSW2 because I keep my existing routes, it is a steal price wise, I love the ICE, am a fan of the London tube and wanted to keep up to date for further dlc which would not release for TSW2020.
    To be fair DTG was very vocal early on that TSW2 would probably not get Multiplayer or Steam Locos for a long time. If you bought it for these reasons I fear you were not informed well. It even said on their Q&A on their homepage back then that there will probably be another engine upgrade necessary before implementing steam will be a thing, and multipalyer was mentioned with "we want to to do it in the future, but no plans when". So I cannot blame them for misinformation personally.
     
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  24. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Well I certainly didn’t buy TSW2 on the promise of Steam and Multiplayer because 1) I’m not that interested in either (Steam would be nice, but not essential for me, multiplayer doesn’t interest me at all) and 2) So far as I’m aware they never promised it in the first place for TSW2.

    The main reason I bought it was because I was happy with TSW2020 and wanted to continue to be able to play new DLC. The fact that I wanted 2 of the DLCs that came with it helped and made it pretty good value.

    So far I’m pretty happy. I’m enjoying both Bakerloo and Köln Aachen. Plus the new routes Island Line and München Augsburg are both in my opinion, excellent. I also like the road map approach. For all the faults in the past, communication has been mostly clear for TSW2. I’m not always happy about the lack of progress of some items, but at least I can see them and know that they should still come eventually. If Raildriver support is good, then I’m only going to get happier.
     
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  25. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Multiplayer isn't a selling point for me at all, I'd prefer TSW stay a single player experience. I'd rather those resources be put into more route and loco DLC packs.

    Steam locomotives on the other hand, are too big of a milestone in rail history to be left out of TSW. As DTG have said numerous times, they want to get steam exactly right and that is something that I'm willing to wait for. The second there is an announcement of steam in TSW, I'll have a hype explosion! :D

    TSW2 was a no-brainer purchase for me. I was extremely happy with TSW2020 and the fact that they were selling three routes for the price of one, plus a discount for existing players, was great value. I know some bugs have surfaced here and there but overall, I'm extremely happy with it. We're getting more third party content and München - Augsburg is fantastic! These are only a postive sign of things to come, TSW gets better with each release :)
     
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  26. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    As you can see above, assume nothing about what most players want, with one exception: all players want what we've told them we're going to deliver.

    We got that wrong with the initial announcement of TSW. We talked about what we wanted to deliver, not what we were certain we were going to produce.

    This time around we're detailing exactly what we are producing, and while it might be an overused reference, until you see something on the roadmap assume we're never going to make it. That's not a cop-out. That's simply not writing cheques we don't know if we can cash.

    The easiest thing in the world is to talk about what you aspire to do, and we have to fight against our instincts to do just that.

    Players were and are rightfully disappointed that we failed to live up to all our initial aspirations. We not only understand that, we can relate to it. We won't be making the same mistake again.
     
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  27. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    I got TSW2 because i wanted all my stuff from TSW and I'm obsessed with all things railway, nothing more needs to be said.......
     
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  28. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Just out of interest, why can’t the original TSW have steam locos? After all, the original Train Simulator had steam. It’s strange that a shiny new game doesn’t have something that the old one does.

    It also begs the question (to Rivet rather than DTG) why the IOW - which is for TSW2, not TSW - doesn’t have the steam line, when TSW2 is supposed to support it. The old TS version has both lines.
     
  29. ghall59

    ghall59 Active Member

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    Personally I don't care for steam trains (in game that is) or multiplayer. There are some things with the game that I really don't like (getting a gold medal for turning up, a zillion and four points for managing to flick a switch to name a couple). I would really like a career path in the game but that's another story. But the game is what it is and there is no need to throw the toys out the pram because I don't have all I want.
     
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  30. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I bought TSW2 because I wanted to continue with the franchise that started with Train Simulator franchise way back in 2011. I enjoy DTG’s approach to the way they do train simulators. Yes there are some bugs, probably better routes to chose and a myriad of things one could complain about if one was looking to complain. But for the past 9 years or so, their products have provided me with several thousand of hours of entertainment. Steam locomotives will be nice when(if) they come, multiplayer is not even an inkling of an interest for me.
     
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  31. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    TSW 2020 couldn't have steam due to the unreal engine making it not perform well you really can't compare ts and tsw as the same game really as both are run on a completely different engine with many pros and cons due. tsw 2 isn't supposed to support steam if you look at the faq they did when they announced tsw 2 they said they would need to do another engine update to have particle effects do justice to performance and visuals, as well as a bespoke SimuGraph upgrade to handle the unique experience of steam locos
     
  32. maxthum

    maxthum Active Member

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    I was hesitant about purchasing TSW2 but man I was right to purchase it. Being a TSW player since the CSX Heavy Haul day's, the game has illustrated potential and still has a long way to go. Dovetail Games has been doing a stellar job in my opinion, with the first-person perspective and making you feel like a worker in real life.

    Sure, I understand why people are annoyed about Steam Trains not being included but eh, is it really something to complain about? Like everything, give it some time. They nearly perfected diesel-electric and electric trains physics which are absolutely commendable and gives the added challenges of adhesion and braking.

    TS2021 has taken roughly 13 years to what it has become today, TSW is roughly 4 years old now. So it's really unfair to compare the content between the two games, tho TSW content-wise, is getting more vast and expansive.
     
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I want to see steam very much so but I didn't purchase TSW because they promised steam locomotives, I assumed we would see them at some point but I would have still purchased it as I liked the graphics and the idea of service mode.

    They haven't promised steam or multiplayer for TSW, it is an aspiration. I would like to see the evidence "most of us bought into the idea of steam engines", I wonder where these "factual" statements come from. A lot of the posters on here don't seem to like seeing anything released built before 2000, going by the complaints when the second BR period route in a row was released and subsequent comments about hoping more modern routes are released!

    But if you look on streams or on here you will see reference to steam engines and the fact they want to develop steam but are not ready to at the moment, or this version of the sim isn't ready. They specifically mentioned steam when they announced TSW2.

    As for multiplayer I have no interest in that at all, and whilst I would like to see it released for those that want it, as far as I am concerned there is a lot of other priorities which should be addressed first.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Though the biggest train I've driven IRL is a 7.5" gauge battery loco, driving the "preserved" Class 45 quite a bit in TSW" I am pleasantly surprised how realistic the physics are starting to feel. I was a huge critic of TSW1 when it first launched and the awful handling of the American diesel locos and had little to no faith that Simugraph was the right solution. I now solemnly and humbly eat my hat on that one (!), assuming of course they keep the good work up. In fact, would be nice to see what the team have learned retro applied to the content in TS (Railworks).
     
  35. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because of the routes and trains? Since that is what the game is actually about..
    Never buy something for aspects that are not included.
     
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  36. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    There are two reasons I bought TSW2.

    1. The old routes were "preserved" and not abandoned.
    2. Scenario planner, which finally held out the promise of recreating interesting railway activity, visiting all those yards on Tees Valley, realistic operations at Manchester Victoria using the correct platforms etc. This, as we've all come to realise,is a work in progress and hopefully things will improve as more location markers are added to the maps enabling trains to reach more than one platform on the Trans Pennine route for example.

    I didn't buy TSW2 for steam because it wasn't on offer. I'd love it to be so but as an ex volunteer on a heritage line and a builder of live steam locomotives, I think it'll be very difficult for them to recreate that atmosphere sitting in an armchair with a screen to look at. Steam is all about sound and smell. Sound they aren't great at and smellovision hasn't been invented yet. I've no doubt it will look fantastic though. Maybe they haven't pursued it because they know their players. People who struggled with the 101 DMU are going to find steam locomotives even more difficult to master. Like the 101, those who persevere and take the time to master it will find it very rewarding but many others just won't get it.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There are some very immersive steam engines in TS1 including many with realistic sounds sets so it is possible to get a pretty realistic steam experience in a sim. Hopefully they will get SSS involved as they did with some of the TS1 offering.
     
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  38. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    I know, a friend has just bought the Stainmore route for his PC. 100+ miles, loads of goods vehicles, sidings you can actually use, steam locomotives..... If I could afford £1000+ for a decent computer, I'd be buying it myself.
     
  39. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Active Member

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    Bought it just to have my TSW UK addons in the latest version. No interest in DTG doing steam, they can barely get diesel and electric traction right. No interest in multiplayer and no real interest in anything none UK. Scenario editor slightly pushed me towards buying. As now i can run Brush Type 4's and Westerns, over Padd to Reading. Modern privatisation rubbish doesn't fill me with love either.
     
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  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    My computer cost around £400 six years ago, apart from a more recent graphics card. I can run the Stainmore route without a problem.
     
  41. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    Each of us has many expectations from TSW. Someone is waiting for steam locomotives, someone their favorite locomotive, someone new routes, someone an expansion of the released routes, someone a multiplayer, someone an editor and other tools, someone all taken together. Let's be patient and we'll have it all. TSW is actively developing, many interesting things await us.
     
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