Does anyone else think that the friction coefficient of the 9F simulation is quite ridiculous? It slips at the slightest trouble and reducing power to get a grip really doesn't help too much. I have run tests where a Bo-Bo electric has better grip on the same track with the same load and that, quite frankly, is absurd. How do you fix it? TanyaJ
Try and start with the loco decoupled from the train. There is an old physics simplification which reduces grip as the train gets heavier. Grip depends on surface specific drag coefficients, weight and force (gravity), all of which are constants, but anyway. It is what it is. (The idea is, your acceleration is fixed, which means more Force applied to pull a heavier train by the inexperienced uneducated engineer, which means either you're good to start with maximum tractive effort, or you will at some point slip.) Mostly old locos are affected, I have just set up a Dash 9 last week in a consist of 60 loaded coal, and it slipped under minimum brake application.
Decoupled? How does that work? I think you mean set-back; i.e. start by reversing a little bit so all the couplings are loose and then go forward. That way you're only having to overcome the static friction of each wagon one at a time.
No, it doesn't have to do anything with realism like that. The technique you describe is valid in real life, and probably the inspiration for the coefficient - the stationary train sits in a bit, with tires flattening and pushing the rail, so getting it started can be challenging, you need some momentum to help out, so you start one wagon at a time. Simply, at the beginning of the scenario, the loco isn't coupled to the train, but either a bit ahead of it, or in a siding - so your first task is to pick up your train. My actual scenario was like that, first loco was fine, but the DPU was slipping. So the (awkward) solution is (supposedly, I'm sick so delayed) place loco, gap, wagons, gap, loco, gap, wagons, gap, loco. In case of a quick drive, or a free roam messed up like that, you just decouple, save, exit, continue, recouple, merrily move on. Same with free roams, best to save with the loco alone.
It is, but it improves if you turn on the sanders. There's probably a parameter you can edit in a file to increase adhesion, but I don't know how to it.
You would have to extract this file, create an identical file structure and place it. It will override the AP. (So, omitting the AP, you start with a RailVehicles in 9FPack01, then Steam, ...) Inside there are a lot of parameters: You can extract the bin (and then repack) using the serz tool: Then it looks something like this (minor edit to make it fit for capture): I suggest taking this for a couple locos (say, the default 5MT) and then setting it according to your preference. I can't help with alt_encoding but if you merely copy the Black 5 then that's trivial.
Thanks Triznya! I will try pluck up the courage to do that! I will make a copy and try it on that. The hallmark of bitter experience! I did try uncoupling the animal from its harness. It made no difference but I did find out that it even slips when light engine -- going down hill! That is ridiculous and needs sorting.
It's important to save and exit the game after uncoupling. That's the whole point of the trick, this grip coefficient is calculated upon loading the scenario state. At first, these experiences are a deterrent, but with the right mindset in the right moment they are great motivators to learn scenario editing and somesuch. Opens new perspectives and opportunities.
Hi! A good value for dry friction is 0.8 to 1; Snow and Wet 0.7. But to be honest, TS physics is mess up and does not work properly, especially with long trains.
Because if the people who asked the question 17 months ago have not replied since either they have found a solution or they are not bothered. Plus it could be a Spam Bot
I'm not sure the 9F needs editing, I used it quite a bit until the Victory Works version came along and never experienced any slipping whatsoever, even with heavy loads on gradients. I used it on some heavy trains over the Settle & Carlisle, including one scenario I created that required a start from stand at Kirkby Stephen after taking water - that is the steepest point on the line in the simulation. There, you had to take up power extremely gently if you weren't to slip, but it could be done. My only issue with the loco was that it is ridiculously over-powerful (I joke about it as an 18F and never drove it at more than 50% regulator to try and compensate for that) and that leaves me wondering if the driving technique may be the issue here. You really need to put up with a slow start, letting speed build up as gently as the loco and train wants. That's how it used to be in steam days - these locos were used on fully-fitted freights permitted to run at 55mph but typically they would never run that fast and would be doing considerably less than that on the long climbs on the S&C - 30 to 40 would be considered good! If you are used to driving powerful modern locos you need to take a fresh mind to steam. Well . . . if you don't want anything to slip - even if you throw the regulator about - use those settings. But for realism, you really don't want to be in big figures like that., Personally I wouldn't recommend much above 0.5 and 0.4 on any engine. John
0.5 is pretty much a default value. Use lower Reverser setting to start. If you have wheelslip you got high tractive effort, that means you can try to start at 40-50% Reverser. (Just like you'd start your car in 2nd gear in winter) Only AP handle this in a different way, by setting it to very high numbers (to prevent the core from applying wheelslip) but then do the wheelslip calculations via their scripts, bypassing the core wheelslip code. TS doesn't have bad physics - you can achieve almost everything with clever scripts - but the core physics are still okayish if you choose to use them.
I certainly take the point about driving technique. Mine is rudimentary at best with regard to steam locos, but the DTG version of the 9F does seem more prone to slippage than the original IHH version. One particular bone of contention for me is that it seems like a full brake application will almost always result in wheel slip, though again it's quite possible my driving technique is at fault.
Yeah, slowly apply brakes. Full application at speed will likely lock the wheels and cause sliding. If you want excellent simulation, then try Bossman Games' locos. Their Black Five is my all time favourite steamer.
Personally I have always felt that the original IHH 9F was the best of all three examples I know of in terms of power output and behaviour. But the model itself is obviously a bit dated against, say, the Victory Works one. John
The coefficient of static friction for dry steel on steel is usually in the region 0.4 - 0.8. The upper figure is rusty steel on rusty steel, the lower for polished steel on polished steel. My guess is typical railway operations would be in the 0.5 - 0.6 range.
