There will be many rail sim fans who will still have a preference for Train Simulator Classic. It may be because they prefer the variety and/or length of the routes, the various TP enhancements or that there's enough traction and reskins in the game to make incredibly accurate scenarios or just don't find TSW immersive enough yet. For me it's all of the above plus the lack of routes and traction that interest me, but I'm being patient and building my collection like I did with TSC. The core updates are incredibly welcome as many of us have invested so much time and money into TSC over the years. I appreciate resources will currently be concentrated on bringing a better, more stable, more user friendly TSC but are DTG still developing UK routes and traction for TSC? Third Party routes usually are excellent (aside from having to use mostly old Kuju rolling stock) but there are still big gaps in the network and a dearth of modern and 1st Gen multiple units in particular and it would be a waste for DTG to not explore the commercial opportunities of the updated core. I see TSC as the Mini to TSW's the Mini Metro. They can co-exist can't they?
I'm not sure what makes you think there are no plans to have them co-exist. DTG have stated quite clearly that they have no plans to get rid of TSC.
For whatever reason, recent feedback has a general negative vibe - based on the expectation that the offering has to be absolutely perfect. If people actually feel that way and vote with their wallets, it's game over. DTG sort of needs to keep publishing as their cut is the ROI for their core updates. 3rd party sources, both payware or freeware, reduce that revenue, unless taxed (too late for that I guess). On top of being an unmanageable source of trouble, whenever some fixes are needed to keep things going after an update. On top of releasing content which then isn't lucrative anymore to release on Steam (Flirt 1, Railjet, Class 801), by reducing audience and raising expectations. DTG are a politician / businessman mix. They'll keep releasing until it's profitable, then they'll stop, whatever they say. The good news is, unless they troll us badly, TSC will be runnable for many years to come, so any collection you have you can still enjoy in the foreseeable future. There is a thread by (retired) torfmeister on how to install earlier versions, just in case.
I think DTG sees TSW as a bigger earner then anything from TSC. Each year they release a new version of TSW where the customer has to buy the whole thing again if they want new features that may or may not work.
Until the launch/announcement of TSW4, TSW had released a new version on a 2 year cycle. It's only between TSW3 and TSW4 that it has been reduced to 1 year.
I was gonna say. It's barely been out for 5 years, so if that were true, we'd be on TSW5, awaiting TSW6.
Well, if they hadn't renamed TSW to TSW2020 then this would technically be TSW5 if TSW2020 had been a new game.
Even if we had only one DTG release per year, it would still be advantageous to at least have a small trickle of official content coming to TSC. There are still many routes that can be made, extended or updated. West Coastway would be my first choice. I probably play TSW more nowadays, primarily because there is more new content released for that title than TSC.
My question was triggered by the recent takeover of DTG which occurred after the core update project commenced and a personal conversation with a content supplier about the TSC team being very small nowadays. Having experienced takeovers of employers on a number of occasions, I found that it's not long before big changes are made to the business plan. So I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask DTG at this time. The lack of DTG-built UK routes and assets recently is mostly likely because of the focus on the core of course but perhaps it's time for a Roadmap for this venerable old simulator. Edit - I should also point to the volte face over forthcoming fixes for TSW2 which doesn't exactly provide confidence in past announcements and ambitions.
I started the thread to point out a new route from Just Trains was coming to TSW4 and I wondered if JT might do a version for TSC. Although with a freeware version covering about 60% of the route that is probably a no.
There are still TSC releases on Steam. I have hypothesized that DTG are relying on that for the time being and spending its resources improving the core game. My logic here is that if they make routes at the same time, or loco DLC, they would have to turn around and update it at the same time and the workload would be repetitive, massive, and costly. I do not expect first party releases in the short term for this reason. But by updating the core - which we said we wanted in the summer of 2020 in a thread I think I triggered - it will provide a better basis for third party developers too, and better Steam releases, while there is not much in the way of third party for TSW right now other than Rivet and Skyhook. From a corporate perspective, it makes sense for DTG to focus route development there and improve the TSC core. what will happen after the core updates? No idea. Maybe we will have new routes again. Maybe not. But it is a guess.
There has been NO dtg releases on steam since huddersfield the releases for TSC on steam are 3rd party developers.
Irrespective there has been no DTG releases since then and all releases have been 3rd party so since they release at the start of the year almost 6 months later NO DTG releases ALL being 3rd party
UK Releases from DTG: Last new traction was the Class 700 in January 2022. Last new route was Huddersfield Line in October 2022. Nothing in 2023 as far as we know. 1 modern UK traction release in 6 years from DTG and we can't blame TSW and TSC core updates on all of that. For context nearly 20 new classes of unit have been introduced to the UK network in that time. As one of them, I don't think it's unreasonable for a stakeholder to ask Dovetail what their plan is.
There plan is quite widely known, Improvements on Core Function. The TS team is small now, its unlikely that they are working on any content at the moment, Hence why they are only publishing 3rd party stuff on steam as a stop gap for now.
That's fine, however while not releasing routes might be fine, they should at least bring those 3rd party rolling stock options to Steam. Especially since they are proven and probably past their 3rd party zenith. Overall, a win-win. From a revenue perspective, there isn't much for DTG out of it. Really just a couple new players buying the core to then buy enhancer and stock. (Sure, many products have Steam prerequisites.) With a bit of luck, these players find a 1€ bundle. From a player perspective, it's cool that I could get them elsewhere, but what if I don't want to worry about installation, conflicts, etc.? What if I desire workshop compatibility? (Again, ignore specific me. My position is easy because I splurged years ago and now just play those.) What if I don't trust external random websites, save for the platform? As Wivenswold has well put, Steam players are stuck with older offerings, not only in terms of release date but also real life production. Anyway, that's the solution I see - I suspect DTG will keep focusing on TSW.
Again, Pegnitztalbahn. February 2023. Why is no one remembering this one? And yes, this is the last one so far. Some third parties don't want their content on Steam. Otherwise, we'd already have Chat Moss, the Cambridge route, King's Lynn, and others from ATS. Missing Link (as it's known) would find a good userbase, for certain.
One thing that keeps 3rd party content off of Steam is licensing, as anything released on there has to not have anything that DTG doesn't have the rights to, or has to be edited to not have any of those from the base content. Example, the SS CP AC4400CW, which has a multitude of logos removed (GE, WABTEC) removed on the steam version vs the one from their own website.
Oh here we go let’s bring ATs into the argument as usual with you. We all know you dislike ATS. If you want the ATS so badly buy it on the ATS website. Why would he want to sell his products in steam and pay steam a commission when he has a perfectly workable website that generates enough traffic for him. I fail to see this whole thing if everything must be in steam for you. Also missing link is a Subware route you need to have an active sub to have the latest version downloaded and installed. Once your sub runs out you can still use the version you have installed but any future updates won’t work until you have an active sub again and are able to download the latest installer
There is no complaint here. I was referring to their products as examples of products not on Steam. Please don’t go off on a tangent here.
Not going off on a tangent here your known for your dislike of ats both on here as well as a discord server
Look. I made a reference to ATS products as being items not available on Steam as an answer to the comment of "That's fine, however while not releasing routes might be fine, they should at least bring those 3rd party rolling stock options to Steam". Maybe you're in some way beholden to ATS (I have no idea how), but my comments have nothing to do with an opinion (there are items there I'm still considering, if you want the truth), but only with actual fact, Please take your condescending tone elsewhere. I'm not entertaining it and will not be responding further to your garbage.
Good evening, can I please ask that you move your arguments to private messages? I would obviously prefer for you to start seeing eye to eye, but if that's not possible at least try and not derail threads. I'd also like to remind you that you are able to put users that you just absolutely can't agree with on your ignore list, hiding any and all posts they make from you. Again, this is not the ideal solution. I would much prefer if we could all just get along nicely, without having to sit you into seperate corners of the house. But since things don't seem to improve there needs to be some action. Also, as a general reminder, any personal attacks or insults will result in warnings and eventually temporary or permanent bans. Have a good night, Jan
Most of the payware on ATS is developed by external developers and sold through ATs. As mentioned above selling on steam has more clauses such as branding and license issues it’s not quite as simple as selling on steam as it is on a website. Imblue developed the 185 and other developers have worked alongside ats for the routes etc. and like I said above missing link is payware so that wouldn’t go down to well if he was to sell that via steam. He has a very good model structure and customer base already as the saying goes if it’s not broken don’t fix it.
Fair enough. To be clear, I'm not criticizing ATS at all, even if I did use the term "don't want to" instead of "can't" in error. The Class 185, for instance, was produced by...well, someone, and I know many reskins are things DTG might not be able to license. But using that example, it would be nice to get a slimmed down package on Steam to use in the Workshop if that were a possibility. That's all I was saying. Similar to the 313, 315, etc. Will it ever happen? Likely not. But it doesn't mean the opportunities for good content in the Workshop using it do not exist. Huddersfield Line, Hope Valley, and maybe even Liv-Man (sadly not Chat Moss) for instance.
Not denying that. I mean, the requirements lists for some are insane, but that's a different discussion. And people can obviously use what they want. Thus, so be it.
Requirements are insane because more people want realistic scenarios. If you are missing stock swap it out problem solved. Now as Jan has said this is detailing the thread so let’s leave it at that.
Possibly because I was talking about UK DLC releases? ATS and other third party developers have a valuable place but it's that list of requirements that makes me want more from DTG. Remember WCML South has an excellent freeware version that's slightly better than the Dovetail version, but the official release didn't need a long list of other DLC. This alone is why Dovetail should, in my opinion, be doing more to keep the game as up-to-date as possible and should be churning out new base DLC. Still no response from DTG unfortunately.
That's like saying Long Island Railroad is the most recent because it's the last U.S. route. *shrug* While I agree with you in principle, BTW, I will repeat that they would be best to wait for core updates to be complete - or near completed - before working on any new DLC. I would love to be wowed with something new and unexpected after the core updates go through.
Yes, though Thomson Interactive, so technically a Third Party release but it's excellent news nonetheless.
As long as new supported DLC is being produced (third party or not) it is a possitive. I recently bought the last offering the Saluda line, completed it and really enjoyed it. Some of the logistics scenarios were well thought out. I will certainly be contributing to the Glasgow Dunblane DLC when it comes out. Born and bred in Glasgow and have been to Dunblane several times! Thank you DTG for all of your hard work
I am eyeing that one as well. The 385 having features telling the player he is behind is cool, and if that can be utilized on other routes with the 385, that would be awesome. My concern is it might require actual route modifications to add those points along the way.
Where was this new route announced? Nothing on the announcements page https://forums.dovetailgames.com/forums/dovetail-live-article-discussion.99/
I first saw it announced on here by someone on the other thread relating to it. Had a gander on Thomson interactive site and its on their home page.
I had noticed it when I loaded up steam, the banner popped up when I clicked train sim. Only way I noticed.
It has been available to pre order on steam store page Since it was announced and the manual available. Again off topic to this thread so perhaps best to move further discussions to appropriate thread
And a link to the manual for those who might not know where it is https://store.steampowered.com/manual/2403286
I was not replying to you, thank you. Good stuff there. I see a lot of information relating to this. I'm sure this will get some reskins for other routes that it runs on. For instance, Iain Mackay's interpretation of the Cathcart Circle Lines added onto WCML North could see it (Glasgow Central to Lanark also runs them), as could ECML North if it were to be upgraded by someone (either Workshop or ATS). The Inverclyde Line, I believe, is already part of an Ayr network at ATS and signs could potentially be added to it now making this a requirement for the 385 to run. Lots of potential play exists for this train. Updates to the E-G Electrified route in the Workshop could also be made if Joethefish is still around.
