A Thank You To The Preservation Team

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jun 20, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well we need our resident 166 driver to comment but I would say about right. Put it this way, I was stopping from 800 yards from 60 MPH using a combination of Step 1 and Step 2. Step 3 is "full service" and in the world of the real railway, when we sent Class 158's out for a brake test after a report of poor brakes, they were required to stop in around 800 yards from 75 MPH in Step 3 to pass. So if anything the 166 is on the right side of that.

    And yes there are only three steps to the brake on Sprinter/Turbo traction - plus emergency which in practice is simply an immediate Step 3 application.

    We have become too conditioned in these sims to trains which stop as if they had car brakes when the reality is not the case. Also unlike some European trains, no UK rolling stock is fitted with magnetic track brakes either (apart maybe for some tram or light rail vehicles).
     
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  2. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    After doing a stopping run from Paddington to Reading, a few thoughts. First the points need to be adjusted to allow for this new and, from the comments above, more realistic acceleration curve for the 166. I was 8 minutes late into Reading just due to this and the fact that the loading time at all stations is the same. Also, we need the actual schedule to be brought into line with reality and not this early, computer generated one we currently have for the runs. Too bad there is only one 'Joe' there at DTG. As for braking with the 166, if I have reached above 80 mph, I will go into step one at a mile and slowdown from there. Usually only need to apply 2 or 3 at the actually stopping point.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  3. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I think you can get closer to the time if you break very hard and very late, but that isn't very realistic...
     
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  4. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Found that that name was used from 1896 to 1974, before the station became Hanwell, which it was between opening in 1838 and 1896.
    Perhaps a result of GWB or a mistake.
     
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  5. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I can assure you the acceleration is much more true to life now than it was before - I sent off my GPS speed and real life unit acceleration evidence to Adam so they could compare what they were testing in the game to what happens in real life. It’s pretty spot on now.

    The braking is more realistic too. It was too harsh and sharp before.

    it needs no further adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  6. speedy2972

    speedy2972 Active Member

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    Has anyone also noticed that there are accurate PIS boards on Diesel Legends, only went on it for a trophy!
     
  7. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    For anyone not familiar with British DMU acceleration characteristics…..

    https://youtu.be/nc0SQPSfk4E








    Granted these are 170s and 159s…. But they al; take roughly 5- 5m30 to get to 90. my videos are very similar in terms of timings
     
  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For anyone having issues with the new Class 166 physics, I have a few tips and suggestions on how to keep on time whilst simultaneously braking smoothly.

    • When less than 0.6 miles from your station stop, you should be doing no more than 65mph. When going down to yards, immediately use step 2 braking, before easing off into step 1
    • Generally enter stations at no more than 25mph
    • Accelerate straight into notch 5, before shortly going into notch 7 when departing
    • Don't wait for the yellow loading circle to fully complete. Close the doors shortly before the yellow circle has filled.
     
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  9. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Finally, the GWE update. Now perhaps a certain user can find a new cause to unceasingly promote.

    Cheers
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, the phyics are good now- but it screws up the old timetable.
     
  11. w2sjw

    w2sjw Active Member

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    Another minor issue/question - no repaint support on the GWE/DBA Class 66? I went though the tools tonight & didn't see it.
    I've got some gorgeous repaints on the ECW Class 66 that I'd love to see on GWE...
     
  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Is that the way real train drivers drive? Because I get the feeling the timetable needs re-adjustment for the slower 166 physics.

    Especially your last point, that can't be the intended way to play this game, can it?
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Real drivers are taught to drive defensively, the more so in degraded conditions such as rain or autumn leaffall. So ragging the train away from stations like Fast and The Furious and scorching stops with no margin for error is not how it’s done out in the world. I don’t think the timetable needs too much tweaking - round up the odd seconds to the next minute and maybe insert recovery time of 2 minutes approaching Slough and Reading on the Down and Slough and Paddington on the Up.

    Are we seeing similar to SoS where the start time is input manually, but the rest of the times are populated by the AI rather than a proper template based on the full timetable?
     
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  14. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    It's a lot closer to reality, the previous physics were more akin to an emu rather than a diesel. Does seem like the TT might need a refresh though. Also regarding his point about the doors, the time it takes to close the doors varies from train to train, but it's never instant. So rather than wait for the "Lock doors" instruction to come up, and then waiting 4-5 seconds for the door closing process to take place, you can time it so that the doors close at around the same time the yellow circle fulls up, allowing you to leave instantly. Of course this only really applies when you're running late, & also if you mess up your timing you might end up being extra late as you need to open the doors again, before closing them.
     
  15. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit late to the party - only just tried the 166 as I'm still driving SoS to death! Wow - both GWE and the 166 are a million times better than they were. The acceleration rate is perfect. Thank you and well done guys!
     
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  16. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    isn’t it just amazing ? I haven’t stopped playing it since it updated :)
     
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  17. heliq

    heliq Member

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    There are no passengers on the NTP, the stations are empty at any time of the day. Why hasn't it been fixed? Where is Rush Hour?
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there are no passengers because of the U.K rail strikes ;)
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I got round to driving a 166 service. I like it a lot. It even has head-out camera views now which is a lovely bonus. I changed the PIS on the front to a random destination just because I could. Shorter station stops with the door closing being changed is a great help. Loving it.
     
  20. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Rush hour passenger were not part of the NTP update. Unfortunatly while PIS adding and other update are nice, this route is still lacking a lot. Mostly a new timetable...

    Overall while GWE update is very nice to have and have corrected à lot of things i found that we are very happy with only things that should be here since eons. We are happy because old routes get some due corrections. That nice but i hope its just the beginning.
     
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  21. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is something we’d all want for GWE but probably wishful thinking at this stage:

    • New and improved Class 166 sounds (still sounds a bit like a lawnmower)
    • A complete timetable overhaul by the master, who is of course Joethefish
    • Timetable improvements would include 6 car Class 166 services (by using duplicate 166 numbers)
    • More HST services. (There’s quite a few missing as well as a lul in services at times)
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I had a wander around Paddington in the sim at around 2pm and there were no trains at one point and looking on the map the nearerst HST approaching was miles away. I am sure the timetable was busier when it was released or I am imagining it.

    The only trouble with the class 166 is that there already aren't enough, I have seen the same set number on two different sets in the same journey before, it does kill immersion a bit, although I guess a lot of people wouldn't notice.

    Why they didn't include a class 165 either instead of, or as well as, is beyond me.

    I would definatley like a new timetable, I think NTP needs one too as both are not busy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Theres are times in the day on GWE where the station is virtually empty of trains. Particularly the HSTs. This obviously isn’t true to real life, hence why a timetable overhaul is needed.

    It has always been like this for GWE.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    What's the difference between a 165 and a 166 anyways? They seem similar.
     
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  25. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    What i find puzzling is that GWE number of services is roughly the same that the add on one of SKA, but Koln is so much busier that Paddington, you virtually have always coming and departing trains at rush hours.
     
  26. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Things like lower top speed (75mph) on the /0, 2/3 car variants and all windows being openable.
     
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  27. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Well-Known Member

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    They're electrically different as well. The engine start up sequence takes longer for the 166s than it does for the 165s. 166s power Britain's most useless HVAC - it gets very hot very quickly. They also have different seating arrangements and tables with legs in the middle car. 166s are carpetted, and the door electronics are timed poorly in the middle car as well... so an alarm may only sound for just 1 second before the leaves slam shut. They also sound different and there's only one subclass.
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The Thames Valley 165's were geared for 90 MPH, AFAIR but as I said earlier, generally the 166's were kept off the Paddington stoppers being preferred for the North Downs, Newbury/Bedwyn services, fast Oxfords and down the North Cotswold Line.

    So back in the dim and distant past when GWE was conceived, someone missed a trick by going for the 166 instead of the 165.

    Anyhow back to GWE finish my run, leaving my poor old freight stranded on Donner Pass!
     
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  29. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the time table is pants. 10 mins late on a full run
     
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  30. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I highly recommend looking up Ruairidh MacVeigh on YouTube, and watching his ‘The History of the Networkers’ video. it’s a 16 minute doc that goes over why they were developed, their various classes, what could of been and how they ultimately failed to deliver on their purpose.
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oof. I wouldn't want to be the unlucky soul having to ride the 165/166 on a hot summer day then. Doesn't sound like the differences then are that big to be honest.
     
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  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    A crude way to put it would be this; the 166 is a long distance ‘express’ unit, the 165 is a commuter unit, the 165 technically came first (at least in terms of planning).
     
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Having finished the 2R37 run to Reading, I came in about 5' late overall.

    It was noticeably harder to keep time on the longer sections and on reflection I do think the top end acceleration physics might need a slight tweak. After the drive shift at ~57 MPH it does take ages to get over 60 MPH and on the just under 6 mile stretch from Maidenhead to Twyford I could only get to a maximum of 70 MPH, after four and a half miles before shutting off power. So the top end grunt could need a bit of a nudge.

    You don't seem to lose so much time on the shorter 1.5 or 2 mile stretches as most of the time the transmission is in first stage, you're not going over 50 or 55 before shutting off for the next stop.
     
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  35. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it isn't there a achievement for doing 90MPH in the Class 166? Jesus I wonder how difficult that is now?
     
  36. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    A trip to France with it, would probably be necessary.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You would have to find one of the Class One non-stop runs from Paddington to Reading to test the ability, probably a Newbury or Bedwyn service.
     
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  38. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It took 7 or 8 miles at full throttle leaving Reading to hit 90, got it up to 100 with 7 miles to go to Slough, so yeah its possible.

    upload_2022-6-22_21-30-18.png
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I've done 90 in the 166 on gwe. Not really diffucult
     
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  40. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad drive with the 166.

    Timings could be tweaked a bit though, along with the loading times being adjusted accordingly instead of 30/60 seconds at every station.

    upload_2022-6-22_23-48-22.png
     
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  41. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    It's been nice getting back to TSW with the new upgrades to the GWE. It breathes fresh air into what was already a fantastic route. I've always loved seeing the incredible amount of scenery particularly around Reading and London, with tons of different things scattered around the railway, which gives the route a much more lived-in feel compared to the newer additions.
    The Class 166 is fun to drive, and the sounds are outstanding! Much of these details were already there, but the new update is like adding the cherry on top!

    If there is one thing I do want to point out however, it'll have to be the passenger behavior on this route. Particularly, passengers still spawn on the platforms with the high speed lines. How come they are spawning on those platforms if absolutely no trains are due? Furthermore, it seems that nearly all the passengers disembark after the first one or two stops, especially when driving the 166.
    This has always been an outstanding issue with TSW since its release, but for some reason it's much more pronounced on the GWE. I've literally had entirely full trains, with passengers filling every seat, only to have the train completely empty out when arriving to say...Ealing Broadway (after departing Paddington). Its as if there's an unload instruction, however the timetable shows only load instructions. So I'm not exactly sure what's going on there, but it would be nice if this issue was finally addressed.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The issue with passengers also happens in routes such as BKL and SKA where the train is full but will get empty after one or two stops. Not to mention stations practically being empty and when doors are open, only a few or no people get on the train despite there being a group of passengers. This is something that needs addressing. It's nice that dtg made the rush hour passenger system but it was poorly executed in my opinion based off the routes I have with rush hour passengers
     
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  43. countcussy

    countcussy Member

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    Anyone else getting massive frame dips/pauses at the start of the down the line scenario? I start the scenario at a solid 60fps (Fixed).
    Walk to platform 8 to get the train without issue. Opening the door then causes a pause and massive frame drops, as does turning on the master switch and setting the lights. Even pressing the guard button before departure does the same. I have to press it once, then wait before I can press it again. It seems like the game prompts cause the delay. I can go to external camera and fly around Paddington without a single issue, but as soon as the game asks me to do a task in the cab, the resultant sound and confirmation of the task seems to cause the issue. Once I get moving, game returns to a solid 60 fps.

    Other than that, great work. The route has become a favorite of mine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  44. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    no the top end does NOT need a tweak - on level track, it should take around 4.5 miles to reach 90mph, ( longer on sluggish examples ) and I’ve just tested that and in the game it does that exactly. As I said - the physics are perfect as they are.

    For the record - I have had NO issues with the timetable running of any of the 166 services.

    FD265281-BC21-4E12-B30D-05368F0754B5.jpeg 998FCC04-468C-4A95-994E-0886B664934C.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Have they changed the close doors op on the 166? as it used to be as soon as you hit the close doors button the loading cycle stopped, so you had to wait until the end of the cycle to start the door close procedure
     
  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough Gary!
     
  47. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they have. It works the same way as per all other trains do now.
     
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  48. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz Active Member

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    Thank you Preservation Crew!
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You can do it on a 1-headcode express, only stopping at Slough. But if you have to stop at Twyford or Maidenhead you'll never get up there.
     
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  50. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Delighted with the upgrade.

    Glad they included something for everybody, solid updates, yet leaving room for further moaning over the timetable...
     

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