Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by davidh0501, May 6, 2021.
Thanks for that information on the Oakville.
A quarter mile is standard in the US also. The specific form of whistle posts, though, is different for each RR. CSX uses tall concrete posts with a black W. UP uses small white squres with black Xs
It’s likely not universal, but the ones I see tend to have mechanical bells. I would imagine that if the bell breaks it could be replaced by en e-bell though.
I think most of the mainline would be bell only, at least as far down as Aldershot (though that should still have a silent whistlepost sign), likely in the industrial areas of Hamilton you would need regular whistle posts though.
This route for me has always been a bit of a frustrating enigma. It’s a route that is primarily passenger services, I really though those passenger trains/services would be coming in a future DLC but they haven’t.
I grew up in Port Credit and riding the Lakeshore West GO Trains is what led to my love of trains…a full Toronto Union Station to Hamilton route really is my dream route but it doesn’t seem like that’s anywhere in DTG’s plan unfortunately.
Having played the excellent Boston Sprinter route for most of yesterday, I couldn’t help but think that an updated/extended OSD route could be just as fun/interesting, with a plethora of GO Trains running a mixture of local and express services, VIA Trains running through at high speed making only a few stops (Union, Oakville, Aldershot), and local freights trying to grab whatever track occupancy is left.
The bones are there for what could be an amazing DLC if DTG wants to make it happen.
One addition I would love to see is the entire track map back like it was when it was first released. (I dont care whether we can use it or not). Its a shadow of its former self in its current form. Also I would love to see at lease the use of CSX and UP GP 38s sub in for the CN ones like they do in real life. Also the same for the GP38 to sub in on Penn Corridor and Sand Patch Grade.
No. Most GP38s these days are confined to either yard or local work on their home railroads, they do NOT travel onto other railroad systems like mainline locomotives such as the AC44s.
Its bad enough that we have the Clinchfield SD40 subbing into SPG.....
I usually hit the restart option as soon as I see the Clinchfield SD40 at the start of a run on Sandpatch.
Not sure if i'm the only one with this issue but the ethanol loading doesn't seem to be working in service mode, you can attach the arm and open the valve, but the tankers stay empty despite the pump audibly working. Just stays empty no matter how long the valve stays open.
Following the new Rush Hour passenger improvements, and the introduction of new "scenes", I'd love to see a few humans spawned along the route, (walking along the sidewalk etc) in addition to the station platforms. just so there's some human "presence".
The overall lack of human presence really detracts from immersion on all routes.
I hope you'll consider this Adam - OSD could be an ideal test route for this!
I have the same issue on PS4. Instead of just 'waiting 20 minutes' I would go load the tankers with ethanol. Now, as you wrote, even after I've attached the arm and turned the pump on, the cars don't fill.
Some Dash 8 and/or Dash 9 services would be very nice.
TrainSim-Adam Heard the great news of the Baby Bullet layer on Oakville. Just wanted to let you know just in case, The locomotive always faces north/east, and the cab car always faces south/west.
What? The preservation update will make the Baby Bullet layer into Oakville?
As per the roadmap stream, the Caltrain Baby Bullet will layer into the OSD timetable
Nice. But how? It will get correct livery to go with it as well?
Controversially no, it looks like it will stick the non-authentic Caltrain one the idea being it's better this than nothing. Adam did say they would take feedback though so feel free to let him know your feelings.
I do like the addition of the Baby Bullet layer, as this route does have many passenger trains.
I just hope they are oriented right as I mentioned above, extremely unrealistic, pretty much impossible, to see them facing the other way.
Correct and when DTG gets the GO Transit licence from the Province of Ontario Government Baby Bullet gets a reskin from Caltrain red to GO Transit Green & White with the MP36 being renumbered to the 600s.
Can't recall, did he mention that on the stream that they are looking into a GO Transit / Metrolinx License?
TrainSim-Adam Will the Baby Bullet layer have a separate timetable?
Oh, well that's a bit of a bummer then. But I do agree, it's much better than nothing.
At worst case scenario, modders can take care of it on PC. But if they managed to get GO Transit licence and make the Baby Bullet spawn in that livery on Oakville, that would be amazing. I mean it's a pretty big game changer for that route. What was originally a mostly shunter exclusive route that felt pretty dead, will now have the opportunity to be a commuter passenger route as well - and whichever side you are playing, you get to see the other services doing their thing as well.
I think it's great news, definitely increased my interest in this route and in the Baby Bullet add-on . The latter I originally didn't care about, as I prefer the F40PH on the CalTrain route, but the new layers for Oakville make it worth getting then.
Conversation about Baby Bullet layer on Oakville starts at 38:14 if anyone is interested.
Well done Adam and Co..
This will breathe new life into the old dog.
If it actually happens, it will be great news. Oakville was very much a missed opportunity from the get go.
I'm all for it. Oakville never really got a chance to shine for various reasons, but no passenger service was really glaring (even though i swear some of the platforms had people waiting for trains that would never come).
What would the service patterns for this layer be like?
Wasn't there a poll regarding this, with the most popular opinion being, that the operator at least should be correct in case a complete match does not exist? This would be quite the opposite.
In fact, while they're at it, any chance of an MP15DC layer for Oakville?
You should have been awarded achievement points for spotting passengers.
They always hide when they see me approaching...
Can guarantee that CN doesn't have any MP15s in their fleet. So no point in having any more locos that would be inaccurate on this route (the MP36 was a compromise just for the PIS system, nothing more).
Maybe they're thinking/hoping about making a GO Transit add-on in the future (either as a train add-on for Oakville, or as a new separate route), and this could serve as a placeholder until then. I mean I don't know if it's planned or not, but it's definitely a possibility.
I also feel quite bad about CalTrain trains running in Oakville, but maybe they can change this later. Or as I said earlier, in the worst case scenario we will have mods to correct it on PC. But I'm really hoping they can make it a proper GO Transit layer.
There is a mod in progress made by TheShotte for the CN SW1500 (a shorter MP15DC) - see: [wip] Canadian National Sw1500 Locomotive For Oakville Sub | Dovetail Games Forums
There will be trains operating Oakville - West Harbour as well as Oakville - Aldershot. Those are confirmed during the roadmap stream.
Unknown if there's AI only doing Oakville - Hamilton GO Centre or Oakville - Niagara
For service patterns, if they decide to do the weekday timetable, all trains would make all stops. as Lakeshore West Express Services are local west of Clarkson.
If they decide to do the weekend timetable and represent the weekend seasonal niagara trains, there would be a few trains making limited stops only.
In my opinion, the weekend timetable would be much better to represent.
Info about Lakeshore West timetable:
As Adam mentioned half of the passenger services will end at West Harbour, I assume that shall be August or October timetables as West Harbour just get all-day services this August.
So, from that information, the timetable should look like this:
- All-day 1tph between West Harbour and Oakville
- All-day 1tph between Aldershot and Oakville
If what they make is the weekday timetable, the following extra trains probably exist:
- 4tpd Hamilton Centre Express, which will start at Aldershot in-game, and make all stops in the current map
- 1tpd Niagara Falls Express, which will start at West Harbour in-game, and make all stops in the current map
If it is the weekend timetable, the following extra trains probably exist:
- 3tpd Niagara Falls Express, which will start at Aldershot (as this train do not stop at West Harbour), and do not stop at Appleby and Bronte
Since this is the case, I would prefer a weekend timetable, since the frequency is very similar (there will be more services between Oakville and Toronto Union in real life during weekdays, but I doubt they would exist, since they will be AI only anyway). But for weekend timetables, we get several extra express trips, which is slightly different than other regular services.
If I did not know at all I would happily accept Caltrain to run Oakville passenger service, but it feels somehow a bit disturbing because I know it is not realistic. Despite, we should appreciate Adam's effort and experiment. I do hope there is a separate timetable where the Caltrain stuff is included., but it should be mixed with freight. In that case you still can choose not to see it.
Whilst only an option for PC users, and still not totally prototypical due to the Baby Bullet not operating on this line a re-livery mod / pak file will be something our group of modders should have no problems creating pretty quickly so at least there is no CalTrain livery on the trains you see.
Good to see small steps toward GO service on Oakville. Hopefully it leads to more!
Passenger services will definitely make route much better, but usage of caltrain livery is from my point of view worst than some fictive one. Maybe livery with DTG logo (replacing GO) or CN passenger reskin will be better.
Vote up for Rudolf idea of separate timetables (basic - frieght only/ enhanced + passenger)
If I would not know about the existence of Caltrain it would be a very nice fictional livery ... So this all is in our minds. So why would caltrain be worse than a fictional livery? Maybe Livery editor 2.0 will make it possible to set preferences for liveries to show up during gameplay. This would enable us to swap the livery.
I think it isn't that difficult to create an own "Go Transit" livery for the MP36 and its bilevel coaches, by trained "Livery Designer" users. But in the long run, a suitable license would be the best to simply create more realism on the route. All in all a very good decision from the preservation crew to enable a passenger service layer on OSD, because the monotonous emptiness on the platforms has been overwhelming so far.
It won't spawn 100% of the time (so you will get mixed GO/Caltrain consist), both in Peninsula Corridor and OSD, which seems like the worst of both worlds
As I’ve said above though a pak conversion will mean all services would be in the correct company livery.
Except then you'd have GO running in San Francisco.
I am pretty certain the Caltrain timetable will be separate from the original, so you can either play 64 service timetable without CT or ca 164 service timetable that is using an incorrect train. As a free upgrade for a "forgotten route" I see this being completely fine. Gameplay and business that is so much needed here. And yes, modders will probably deal with this rather easily. Independent shunters from TheShotte show us independent MPX and Bi-Levels can exist giving us possibly the GO version on OSD while keeping CT on Penn Corr.
It’ll be interesting to see how the usage of the MP36 affects the timing between stops, as it is a less powerful, and slower, locomotive than what GO uses IRL. I am slightly concerned that this layer could prevent an accurate layer from ever appearing, with the correct locomotives and cab cars (GO uses a completely different cab car than what Caltrain does), but honestly that is unlikely ever to happen anyway. I can only imagine what the people complaining about the class 40 on WCL would think about this as well LOL. But hey, it’s a start!
Well GO locos often ride in pairs, so we could have 2 locos or a reduced number of cars. I would personally be pleasantly surprised if they went for let's say 2 locos + 10-12 cars formations.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it “often”, it’s an extremely rare thing to see for the MPIs (I live in Toronto and see GO trains frequently), and from what I’ve found it’s only for breaking in potentially unreliable new locomotives. You’re right though, that is a relatively good way to do it- although changing the number of units in a consist to have 2 locos would make accurate substitution impossible.
What do you mean by this exactly?
Substitution can only be for trains of the same length as the original? Which is why the 313 operates in its own timetable on ECW. And as I said, double headed GO trains are extremely rare IRL, with an accurate substitution having one loco, not two. I guess they could create a third, accurate timetable, but then things would start getting really convoluted. Sorry, I realize I’m being a bit argumentative here haha, not trying to be
Double header GO Trains are not rare, and especially not "extremely rare". Stick around Union Station long enough during peak periods and you'll most likely see a few.
Ah, ok. But if the loco we have is not powerful enough for those trains, would you prefer the trains to be shorter or double headed?
I agree, but then you would see these trains as well in California, so this is not the best solution.
Double headers would be nice occasionally, but you’d need the passenger density to justify it.
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