Ai On Brighton Mainline

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Aran, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Southern Services

    With Boston Providence we have seen what DTG are trying to do with Rush Hour in terms of traffic to populate the route and I'm impressed. Having all those trains leave Boston simultaneously really made it believable that this was a very busy route with lots going on so I really hope all of this will be carried over to both Riesa - Dresden and Brighton Mainline.

    Class 377 Allocations and  Numbers.PNG

    The problem with doing this on Brighton Mainline is that there are not enough Class 377/4s to fill all Southern Services in and around London. DTG have already said that they will add the /1 to this which still only leaves 137 Units to use for all Southern services on and around the Brighton Mainline instead of the 214 units Southern actually have. This would obviously cause problems when taking the same approach as on Boston Providence.
    My worry is that DTG will limit the amount of services to only use the 137 trains they have instead of filling the route to make it as busy as it should be. Instead of doing that, which would potentially make the route feel dead there are several things they could do.

    1. Allow duplicate Numbers
    This one is quite simple and also my preferred method, just add all services as they exist in real life and allow the game to reuse the available numbers when choosing which number to give to the unit. This was also done on Peninsula Corridor with the F40PH-2Cat Locos to fully populate the route where there weren't enough Locos to do so normally.

    2.Add fictional Numbers
    This is similar to the first one but instead of having numbers repeating DTG would add fictional numbers like 377 499 to compensate for the missing subclasses. This should also add enough trains for them to fully populate the route, even though we'd still be 14 Units short of the real fleet.

    3.Implement subclasses with /4 model

    This would involve them doing the same as they did with the /1. They would add the missing subclasses /2, /3, /6 and /7 but instead of making the appropriate model the trains would use the /4 model. This is far from perfect but would be a possible solution. The /6s and /7s could also use the 387 model in a Southern Reskin but as this would require more work I don't think this would be done.


    Southeastern Services

    Another thing that would massively increase the business of the route in the London Victoria area is an extra layer for the owners of Southeastern Highspeed that adds Southeastern services using the Class 375 from that DLC. These would ideally also have substitution enabled for those who have the Class 465 to add some more variety. The extra services would add a lot of traffic to the surrounding area just like we saw in the Boston - Providence stream.
     
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  2. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Going to hazard a guess and say that those 137 units should be enough to fulfil the full BML timetable (possibly even if they have to substitute in for some Thameslink services for the time being too). What you've screenshotted above would constitute the whole of Southern's 377 fleet, which is enough to service most of Southern's entire network.

    Even if (for instance) a Victoria - Dorking service is being depicted, as soon as it departs the map through the portal at Streatham that number will become available for allocation again.

    The 377 in real life is in service not only on BML, but also on Arun Valley, Mole Valley, East and West Coastway, East Grinstead, Milton Keynes and Tonbridge lines among others outside of the depicted area. There will also be some numbers that are out of service as well which won't be depicted in-game, so all the /1 and /4 numbers are available whereas in real life they wouldn't be as some may be undergoing repair or maintenance.

    It may possibly be more of a hurdle to clear if BML and ECW (and any other future Southern 377-served lines) are ever merged though as there will need to be enough numbers to satisfy the timetable - not beyond the wit of man to solve though as you've already pointed out.

    Fully agreed on the Southeastern services out of Victoria though.
     
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  3. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I think they'll go for mainline services to Brighton, then mainline services to other destinations, then anything else will go on the metro services - of course it may be that we get a 455/8 DLC later on so they probably won't want to fill the entire suburban London timetable, especially given it's mainly 3 or 5 car ones. Note it'll probably not be all 377/1s in the number list, I have a feeling it'll just be the ones with the updated headlights (they were changed mid-batch).
     
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  4. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, but given that most of the other lines you mentioned are at least partially depicted on the Brighton Mainline they will need services aswell, even if it is just half a mile to the portal. The Milton Keynes services travel along a reasonably large portion of the BML before leaving at Clapham Junction. There is a chance that the 137 /1 and /4 units is enough to fill everything but if it turns out that's not possible I'd rather sacrifice number realism than any services.

    It's also worth mentioning that a train still exists when it enters a portal, so the number can't be given out to a different train at that time. The train is stored in a storage type facility and can then be "spat out" through any other portal on the route.
     
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  5. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    A 455 DLC doesn't make a whole lot of sense, they rarely go to Victoria and when they do I believe they branch of well before East Croydon. So it would make more sense for them to add in the metro services from the start. And even if they do decide to make a 455, we only have 4 car 377s anyway so substitution wouldn't be a problem.
     
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  6. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I would say the 455 would make sense for the route. If it adds a small variety to the route it would be welcome, even if just a 10-15-minute drive between Victoria and Balham or Selhurst. Plus, it's introduction would bring London Bridge-origin services to BML that could be driven between East Croydon and Purley (which would go off the map to Tattenham Corner or Caterham).

    On top of that, if a 455 DLC is released for BML, it would bring opportunities to base a completely new metro route around the 455 in the future.
     
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  7. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I think it'd need to be the other way around. They could make a South London Metro route with a 377, 375 and a 455/8. The 455 could then layer onto BML.
     
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  8. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, I agree. However, my only concern would be how long would it be until such a route is released (potentially years?), if at all. Thus, I feel the 455 should come as a DLC for BML pretty soon to keep the route fresh.
     
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  9. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    As back of the envelope calculations and Excel spreadsheets are a red rag to this proverbial bull, I put together a spreadsheet to try and figure this one out (using the service frequencies from Wikipedia and transit times from realtimetrains).

    I calculated that for all of the services out of Victoria plus the Milton Keynes ones you'd need around 90 4-car units to run the whole Southern timetable in both directions at any given time off-peak.

    Assumptions:

    1) Every service out of Victoria (+Milton Keynes) operated by Southern uses 377s (unsure if this is true, but it's worst-case for this assessment)
    2) Most services use 8 car trains, with Brighton and Dorking-bound semi-fast trains using 12 cars each (I don't have all this information so it was a best guess - obviously if most trains are actually 12 cars then this will push the required sets up to near the limit)
    3) No Thameslink potential replacement services were taken into account
    4) Trains become available for reallocation once they have reached a portal - transit time to portal was determined by using the next realtimetrains waypoint/station beyond the hypothetical portal location
    5) Only trains that transit at least two stations on BML were taken into account (so for instance no Redhill - Tonbridge services were counted)
    6) I have accounted for running each route in both directions simultaneously
    7) No additional peak-time or special trains taken into account

    The only point of limitation IMO would be if Southern 377s replaced all of the Thameslink services too - given the frequency and length of the Brighton - East Croydon portal services, I could see that it would be easy to run out of numbers if you were only using /1 and /4. I didn't go to the lengths of adding these to the sheet though.

    Ultimately though as Matt has mentioned in another thread, I don't think the route will be quiet at all.

    If anyone else has done anything similar I'd be very happy to compare nerdy notes - in the meantime, I am enjoying the continuing wild speculation :)
     
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