An Honest Discussion About Why Is There A Female In Spirit Of Steam As Fireman

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Gabe_1.0, Jun 4, 2022.

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  1. Gabe_1.0

    Gabe_1.0 Well-Known Member

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    I want to have an honest discussion here because I could not on STEAM forums as a moderator banned me until july for this rubbish claiming i've offended someone. No it was meant to be a simple and honest discussion. It dose bother me.

    If TS2022 the black 5 features a fireman and a driver that are aged. They are both male with grey hair and an aged and worn uniform. That was very good. I was expecting the same to be in Spirit of Steam, maybe with dirty uniform with coal hand imprints on the uniform or dirty face because the fireman obviously dose alot more work to keep her running. Honestly I don't agree with this. It dose bother me because i don't recall there beeing any historical records that indicate females were fireman on the steamer. It is also very obvious that in the word fireman the word man is clearly indicating it's a male present. And you have their hats there as well on.
     

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  2. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    This argument is just not accetable, as the english language has plenty of these words - policeman e.g. Does that mean, that there is no way a woman could be a.... policewoman? There are so many words, using the male suffix. But if we go by that, women could hardly work anywhere. Also this point seems so have a dangerous normative imperative: "Women shouldn't work there".

    I get your historical point of view - that there is no record of a woman at the firebox. That probably never happened in that age. Totally agreed. But that was the case because that times were highly patriarchiac ages. Were people (especially men) would say: "Oh a woman as fireman? That's rubbish! A woman should rather be at home!11!!". And I don't see why TSW should reproduce this kind of (imo) really bad social rules. In fact, it's lovely, that the devs of TSW want to make this game inclusive and colourful. This might be a little anachronistic, but I reaaaally don't care what gender the person next to me shoveling virtual coal into the firebox has.

    After all, the whole train-scene is still dominated by men. In reality as well as the clientel who buys and plays this game. So it's very welcome to make it a little more welcoming to women as there is some kind of representation.

    And to be honest - if it really bother you thaaaat much, that the virtual fireman next to you is female ... well... yeah.
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As stated previously, it goes against historic realism which is surely what the DLC sets out to portray. It should not be the place for someone's revisionist agenda. The only thing I would add, is there are far more pressing issues to be solved with the route before I purchase and the presence of female footplate crew where there patently should not be, is not one of them. But maybe there should be a choice in the options - run authentic to the era, which would also include people smoking, adverts for Woodbines, Players Please and the infamous Roberston's preserves with the g......g logo, or the sanitised vision of DTG.
     
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  4. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    WoMAN, HuMAN - women don't even exist.

    Anyway, the second man in the locos on NTP and TVL can be a woman. I think it's more a case of they didn't bother making it so the character is always a white male because they didn't expect people to get so red-faced and angry over it, and is symptomatic of how we're actually going backwards in some respects - I doubt many people would've batted an eyelid had this DLC released 6 or 7 years ago.
     
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  5. Gabe_1.0

    Gabe_1.0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am very old fashioned and if you ask your grandparents, patriarchiac ages were actually the best times ever because both genders were given their specific purposes in society. I totally respect the fact that women are better at some things and men are better at others, specifically. So that's the cool thing about it. But I have to point out this was not an issue in 2018 when TS2022 had both males present as its suppose to be, and they had gray hair due to working hard.
     
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  6. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    I think the game should reproduce it, the game touts itself as a simulator after all, and historical accuracy should be one of them, no matter how much one might dislike said history. It's like making a WW2 game and have half the soldiers be women because of "inclusiveness" or whatever you want to call it. Though I haven't played WW2 games in a while, so no doubt that already happened! :D

    As cringy as the LGBT stuff in the containers is IMO, at least that makes sense on the modern routes.
     
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  7. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Oh were going down that rabbit hole, are we?

    Thank goodness for the "Unwatch thread" button.

    EDIT: Will explain my reasoning for the above comment before you all get 'eww snowflake' on me.
    As a gay man, it's disheartening seeing people describe the rainbow flag, or something wearing it, as "cringy". Also, it's annoying to see people who see something they disagree with and go for the shoot first, ask questions later approach and immediately jump to "woke" or "PC gone mad".
     
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  8. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate this please and point out the difference to today?
     
  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If all things were equal, historically there should have been women working on the railway in 1958. I wouldn’t let past inequalities feed into your current view of life. There are plenty of old films around if people want to relive the ‘good’ old days when men were men and women were barely even recognised as people. This is a game in 2022 so everyone will have to live with that. Nobody drove a train with a keyboard and mouse or a PS5 controller in 1958 but happily they all fit the hands of women and men alike. TSW is not a historical document, it is a game for everyone to enjoy right now. So when you see a woman on the footplate, say ”Hi Sandra, how was your weekend? How are the kids?” and get on with driving you train.
     
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  10. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    "Patriarchy is better". Oh boy. The constant discrimination of women and other genders just for the sake of the old white man to stay on power. Seriously? We are not in the Middle Age anymore. Get over it and accept the fact that times change.

    And if you get bothered by a VIRTUAL female in a GAME then you better sort out your priorities.
     
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  11. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It is correct that in 1959 women were not allowed to a lot of things. In the Netherlands, once they were married the had to obey their husbands and could not do things like signing a contract for e.e. a telephone subscription. Also the government fired women once they got married. I disapprove of this way of thinking. And though, historically incorrect it is fully acceptable for me to have female drivers, fireman and same for coloured people. Let's stop nagging about this and not try to repair former discrimination.
     
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  12. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I thought it odd there weren't more women who were train fans, now I see why. It's like a golf club where the male patrons don't allow women to join because they want their own little space to themselves.

    Pathetic, grow up and get over yourselves, by the sounds of it you are old enough to know better.
     
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  13. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you call this thread "honest" says sooo much. It's like - nobody dares to say it because of political correctness, but I am the one who dares to do so. I'll spit out the "facts". I'll say how it is, i am the one, who speaks for all the poor men who feel discriminated by political correctness.
    And 10 mins later, you have people who more or less say "Women, go back to your kitchen", some really weird and not accetable WW2 comparisons and fighters for patriarchy. Thoughts of the past belong into the past. :)
     
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  14. Gabe_1.0

    Gabe_1.0 Well-Known Member

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    I'm bothered about alot of things with TSW2 because it's taking a very slippery slope into the abyss. First it started with LGBTQ containers, rainbow flags on trains and now it's trying to re-write history by putting women into a fireman's seat on a steamer to be "politically correct" and give a false fantasy. TSW2 has alot of left wing garbage in it already. Their previous title Train Simulator or Railworks was very straight forward period accurate, no "gay" agenda subliminal messages.
     
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  15. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    "Left wing" is all I read and now its clear from where you are coming. If a Train Simulator has "an agenda", then you might have some weird weird views on reality.
     
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  16. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but as a gay/bi guy, I personally find it "cringe". I feel it doesn't represent me or my sexuality, and I don't want to associate with such a "movement" that I feel has become blatantly political, not to mention how it has become a cynical consumerist marketing vehicle for companies.

    Anyways, my apologies for bringing it up, this thread just reminded me of that as well.

    Not having a female fireman wouldn't mean condoning any such behavior though? I mean, there is a difference between depicting something and condoning it.

    Curious, how is it weird and not acceptable? We are talking historical content here, fifties and forties weren't that far apart. Of course I'm well aware of the women fighting in WW2 (and other wars), wasn't my intention to downplay that. Just how such things get depicted.
     
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  17. laika

    laika New Member

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    Gabe man I'm sorry but you the biggest dumbass I ever did see, if you think the 'lefty' agenda is even a thing, and it's taking over a train simulator then I think you need to give your head a wobble.

    Maybe find something reasonable to care about and focus on the real problems in the world?
    A good friend of mine would tell you to take up yoga.

    You may find it beneficial.
     
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  18. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Weird, because a shooter game and a train simulator reaaaally don't belong into the same category. Not having women soldiers isn't just a comparison on the same level as not having women at the firebox. And as you mention it rightly, women played a big part in fighting against the fascists. As spys and in other terms. But yeah, i get your point :)
     
  19. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Here's Arcola Philpott, the first Black conductor for the Los Angeles Railway, hired in 1944. She's notable as the first Black conductor because she was not the first woman hired, which happened years earlier. Just one example on one railroad.
    1_2XQxW17oSSRIWAJJZLy3sg.jpg

    It may come as a surprise to some that women have been doing *cough* "man" things for quite a long time. Like Pearl Young here, a physicist who was the first woman hired in a technical capacity by the agency that would become NASA. In 1922. 1037498main_Pearl I Young-NASA LaRC-29-Mar-1929.jpg

    And Chicago reporter "Collie" Collier, here showing considerably more spine than I have in covering skyscraper construction in 1920.
    xlmkPsAe_zHpoOh7jx5O3nrAK3-fxSUql825IHZZ1GE.jpg

    There's quite a logical gap between "no record" and "probably never happened", and for that matter between "probably never happened" and "never happened". Gaps big enough for an agenda, or even some genuine research. If one actually wants an honest discussion.
     
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  20. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    It does look odd for a route set in 1958, I have to agree. Obviously more common to see black/white female drivers in modern times and doesn't look out of place on modern TSW2 routes, but in 1958? Nah, if there was option to turn female drivers off then I would use it for SoS, just to keep some sort of authenticity. Would probably do the same for NTP and TVL era too.
     
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  21. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Who actually cares? What does it change about the experience in this game? If you're so ridiculously prejudiced that you can't stand the sight of a woman or a flag, you need to take a serious look at your world view. Your opinions have no place anywhere in 2022, let alone on the internet or in this forum.
     
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  22. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm looking at it from a historical perspective, whether the game simulates shooting or driving a train doesn't really matter IMO. In fact, in comparison, having women soldiers in WW2 would be more realistic than women firemen in fifties Britain?
     
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  23. Gabe_1.0

    Gabe_1.0 Well-Known Member

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    I like how you jumped straight into attack mode when I am seeing a very concerning issue especially knowing children play the game, whereas I am concerned about their welfare knowing there is a [removed - JD - antagonistic]
     
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  24. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    This thread has a natural political side to it but the OP and those agreeing with them are correct, to a degree.

    In 1958 it was rare to see a woman working on the railway. The first female driver was only given that role in 1978, leaving a 20 year gap between, in that sense. Unlike the Pride containers on Sherman Hill, which aren't an unheard of thing in the modern world, but also do have a political side depending on who you ask, this is a matter of Historical Accuracy. And unfortunately it falls foul of the history, and shouldn't be there. The game has it's arcade side however it's also a simulator, and should reflect the period the route is set in.

    HOWEVER, the suggestion that women being there isn't good because kids play the game is ludicrous. And also, there's a clear conservative-ish agenda here.
     
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  25. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    And what's the concerning thing about that? That a girl sees a female engineer or fireman and then thinks "oh wow, that's so cool, i want to do that as well"? Sounds actually really great and not concerning at all. Or they see a coloured flag and then become... gay? Where is the logic?
     
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  26. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    What the hell? Are you now really saying that A TRAIN SIM GAME is sexualising kids? How about asking the kids what they do think about this instead of pretending to be Worlds Kids Association speaker because you are not. Leave the rest of the world alone with your unenlightened, uneducated views from 60 years ago that nobody cares of.

    I really hate this whole right wing agenda of "lets protect our kids from ANY form of education because they could start rethinking their own identity"-[removed - JD - language]. If there is any threat to the children then it is you closed world view of prejudice and intolerance.
     
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  27. laika

    laika New Member

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    Don't hide your blatant homophobia behind being 'concerned' for kids, it's frankly embarrassing.

    Next thing you finna tell me is the moon shouldn't be in game because it's subconsciously conditioning kids to turn into werewolves.
     
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  28. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Okay, let's stop this before we descend into somewhere nobody needs to go.

    There are female firemen (firepeople?) in the game, and representation is important to us as a company. There are a significant amount of women for whom we owe a lot when it comes to the railways. Whether it it prototypical or not, this feels like a small way in which we can honour that. There is no 'political', 'sexual equality' or 'gay agenda' here (and it feels awful to have to write that sentence), but people should feel represented.

    Locking this thread before I need to start issuing warnings to individuals.
     
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