And This Is Why I Keep Going Back To Zusi

I am really trying to love TSW. Now that I can experience it in the glory of VR, it should be perfect. But..................

To be a train simulator, the first thing that should work (and I mean 100% of the time) is the signalling systems. I just played the 61888 service on Linke Rheinstrecke. I selected PZB art M (as it was a 600T train) and off I went (although I couldn't for the life of me work out how to close the cab door from the outside having switched the PZB mode in Cab2).

Approaching Heidesheim, I come round a blind corner and there is a Vr0 Vorsignal (Halt erwarten). It has the repeater light (white light between the two ambers). As I pass it I am scrabbling to notch down from 20 and brake. I press the wachsam button, but it doesn't register. It's as if there isn't a 1000Hz magnet. No change to the PZB display in the cab.

About 10 seconds later you go over the 500Hz magnet and get a Zwangsbremsung.

In Zusi, if you get a Zwangsbremsung, it is because you have missed something or done something wrong.

In TSW, 90% of my Zwangsbremsungen are due to bugged signalling, loks not using the correct logic etc.

It just gets tiring!!!!!!!!

I am starting to feel that I shouldn't have pre-ordered Salzburg. I noticed in the live stream that Matt went past an LF6 showing a reduction to 80. There was a magnet in place. He did not acknowledge this and nothing happened.

 

Excellent choice Zusi.
Maybe try using it with a Commodore 64.
Both, the device and Zusi, are perfectly in line with 1982 graphics...

 

You could refund it

 

I do realise this. And I love TSW in VR. It is absolutely glorious driving along the Rhein.
But, this is supposed to be a train simulator, not a scenery simulator. I have never understood the rivet counters who get excited about placing adverts on boards and counting how many bins there are on the platform. I drive (and fly) simulators aiming to recreate reality as close as possible.

Each to their own. The thing is, TSW could be so perfect. Just a bit more attention to detail and it would be amazing!

 

I know this is an option, I have only ever done it once.
Watching the preview, it did look nice, and I'm just hoping that it will be almost perfect by the time of release. I know that there are some very good people working on this, and it is light years ahead of what we used to get. People like Maik etc... have made a huge difference, but there are still a few bugs which just detract so much.
Like the PZB lights on the BR103 showing the wrong information. This has been going on for over a year. It has been acknowledged, but still not fix.

All I was trying to say about Zusi was that you know when you load it up, it will be 100% reliable. All the time!. Once you have experienced this, it is hard to live with all the little bugs TSW throws at you

 

Graphics is irrelevant when the game doesn't work.

Also, you act like the graphics in TSW are good. The train models look fantastic sometimes but the scenery, straight from TSC2008 or some ****.

 

While the scenery in TSW is severely lacking in accuracy and detail... I prefer what we have over blurry textures and Building textures placed on flat surfaces.

 

In fact the trains in TSW are beautiful.
I concentrate on them and the surroundings of the railway.
The side dish interests me little.
A useless waste of time.
It can never be perfect anyway.

For example, when I go to train stations or along railway lines to take photos, I don't worry about seeing the houses or streets around.

I am focused exclusively on what interests me at that moment.

Trains and the railway.

If you change the way you see things, you will never be disappointed.

In general I mean.

 

TSW4 is a train simulator GAME. There are many buttons and switches inside the cabs that we can’t interact with, if it was a true simulator then we would be able to. Primarily it’s a game to have fun with and relax.

 

Zusi 3 graphics are not that bad and as someone who plays a variety of the train sims both that and Run 8 can provide a vastly superior driving experience. To compare Zusi 3 with a 1982 game is just plain bad manners.

 

I do agree in a way, it should be fun and relaxing,

But how can you enjoy and relax if you get random emergency braking and signals which don't actually give you the correct information.

Just driving along and watching the scenery is fine for the first couple of drives, but after a while you do need a challenge. And you can only respond to a challenge if you get the correct behaviour of the game, otherwise you can never achieve the challenge.

 

Just had a delightful run along the Obereruhrtalbahn in Zusi 3, managed to get from Schwerte to Arnsberg. Yes the only drawback is you can't save so I will have to pick up the run again using fast forward. But a very sublime, relaxing experience helped immensly by having the Ebula on my iPad next to me.

 

How fast was Matt going? An 80 restriction should be protected by a GPA, in which case the 1000Hz magnet isn’t necessarily active.

 

Been messing about in Zusi 3 to see how the 218 compares to the TSG one just released for TSW.

However it has been causing a bit of frustration. Once you find the train you want to drive, it takes ages to load the route in. Then you have to timeskip to the start time of the train you picked. If you are using timeskip with a later train with the intention of cutting it off to rejoin an earlier service at an intermediate station (where you left off previously due to no save function) there is no running clock (without switching on cheat mode) and even then if you are using skip the time doesn’t show. Then when you go to pick a different train, the whole route has to go through the loading process again.

This could be avoided if, 1. Zusi 3 had a working save or checkpoint system. 2. You locate the train you were driving previously and get the sim to start from an intermediate station.

Also when I tried to call up the “Help” screen using the internal function, the sim just locked up.

In total I probably spent 15 minutes driving and 25 minutes trying to set things up.

Great sim, terrible interface.

 

But this is the base concept of how Zusi works and that is why it works better than TSW.

In Zusi, the whole timetable is always simulated from the beginning, if you choose timetable that starts at 4:00 but train at 12:00, the game will simulate everything from 4:00 in background, for every train it will dispatch it variously between possible paths, generating random small delays that slow the network and build up over time. Then, when your train spawns, the rest of the simulation will always be in a different state, with AI trains being on different places at the time.

In TSW, this simulation is ran by route developer and baked in. Which means that if you pick a train starting at 12:00, the game has pre-computed where all other services are placed and can get you right in. But you will never have any sort of variability. Unless some train bugs out (AI or player holding the traffic), the same service will play exactly the same every time you start it. There will never be delays, there will never be alternative routings. If there are delays in TSW, it is because somebody designed the timetable wrong, not because of "natural reasons" during dispatching. Additionally, any even the littlest change into timetable requires you to drop everything and bake the whole timetable from scratch. Which is why it is extreme effort to fix mistakes, add any new services or any other touches like that.

 

Oh I understand how Zusi works and appreciate the benefit of truly dynamic timetable and AI signaller.

It’s just a shame things couldn’t be organised better at the menu basis and, as I’ve probably said before, in the absence of a save or checkpoint system make it easier to pick up a train from the timetable, at the intermediate station or time you left off.

As regards a difference between the Zusi 218 and the TSW version, hard to say. Both are very, very good though I would probably have to say the TSG/TSW version has a slight edge. Both are way better than the 218 supplied with the Kiel to Lübeck route in TSC. Assuming it is discounted in the Steam sale, planning to buy the Virtual Railroad version along with the Pegnitztalbahn on which its scenarios are based, for TSC, as it has been personally recommended to me.

 

If the maximum speed allowed on the segment the train is traveling on before encountering the 80 km/h reduction was no more than 90 km/h, Matt was right not to press acknowledge. This is what I learned about PZB. If the maximum speed on the segment (segment of track, not train) was 100 km/h and Matt encountered the lf6 with an 8, he should have pressed acknowledge instead. Below 100 km/h, if the difference is a maximum of 10 km/h, you do not need to press acknowledge, but if it exceeds that, you do. We are not talking about the speed of the train (which in the example above could go even below 80 km/h when it encounters the triangle with the 8) but about the maximum speed of the segment of railway in which the train is traveling. I hope I explained myself well.

 

Hopefully we'll have this (AI delays, some randomisation etc) in TSW5, or some other major new and interesting feature (multiplayer?). Fingers crossed..

 

Small correction - not pressing acknowledge violates the official rules (see Ril 483.0101, page 10, 4 (1)). Officially, any restriction below 100km/h must be acknowledged. You are right not to expect 1000Hz monitoring though in the case you describe.

 

The dozens of bugs that are there now are not enough for you. Do you want to multiply them by adding multiplayer? Then there will be less and less DLC and DTG will spend most of its time fixing bugs. Many people regret Ruhr-Sieg Nord (released in 2018), I understand them.

 

And to think that, over time, I had become convinced of the opposite: initially, under 100km/h, I reported them all. Then I learned not to report when the difference is no more than 10 km/h from the maximum speed of the route in the section preceding the LF6 with the reduction. I thought it was even more correct than reporting them regardless. Good to know.

 

It sounds like OP found the Left Rhein signal with the missing vorsignal. It was never fixed.

The first you know of hauptsignal state is the repeater "mit kennlicht" and the 500hz magnet. Zu spät!

 

Not possible, and Carsten has stated that many times and explained the reasons. TSW trains stuck on signals are the result of a savegame or the datatrack "quick jump" into any spawn time, that's why Zusi will simulate the whole timetable to your entry time. It needs to do so, and therefore it can be considered bug free. And timetables are constantly being updated, extended with each patch that adds new route modules. Users would complain "the update broke my savegame". It is not a game based on achievements, no completion status is necessary. You can jump between trains and always find a way to continue where you left.

There is an easy way to rejoin a service. Example:

You're playing service IR 2541, timetable Rund_ums_Weserbergland\Weserbergland_1996_5-11Uhr.fpn.
This goes from Paderborn to Kassel-Wilhelmshöhe, taking about 90 minutes.


You make it to Hofgeismar and may have to stop playing. To rejoin the service later, pick a train that starts at roughly the time your train is supposed to be in Hofgeismar. It doesn't matter where that train starts. I've found IR 2481 starting at 6:39, which is close to our service that's in Hofgeismar at 6:45. Start IR 2481.


Now go to the Navigation menu and select "Anderen Zug übernehmen" (select another train) - this will show you all trains in the timetable and their state (driving, finished, not yet spawned). Select 2541 here and you'll be roughly where you left.




There you are, 5 minutes before you left. At Lone Pine Mall


About the "terrible interface": I disagree. It is based on giving you all information possible, not shiny looks. It's a simulator, not a game needing flashy intros. Form follows function. In TSW, you can't check your consist or timetable before playing. Zusi even shows you substitutions (reload a timetable and your train might be hauled by a 112 instead of a 110. The substitution is implemented on a per-train base, using percentage and a range of valid alternative locos which the author selects).

 

This is a fundamental Signslling bug in TSW across All routes.

If the driver is diverted from the mainline in a loop / yard and the siding has a normal "mainsignal hp0", the vr works as supposed, (Usually approach with Langsamfahrt erwarten vr1 40kmh etc.)

But; if your siding in the yard / loop has a red shunting signal sh at the end, The Vr on the mainline wont recognize it and show a green "freie fahrt erwarten" aspect.

Could also be the problem of the hp0 + sh1 / zs7, which leaves the dispatcher believe its a green and puts the esig distant to vr1.

Easy to test this bug at linke rheinstrecke, making a run direction koblenz into Bingenbrück: there are 2 sidings which are used by the freight services as loop. (The other sidings are not electrified)

Run into the right one:
1.
2.

3. At the end of the siding

Zwangsbremsung!!!! From the dispatcher tasks i know i have to slow down, but i got nasty brake applications from that bug on many routes. (No hud driver)

 

Nope, in this case the problem is that through tracks in Uhlerborn do not have distant signals mounted on the exit signals for the following Sbk 16. What LCYCowboy sees is really a repeater that informs him that the stop signal is imminent, but he never went around the original Vr0, because its signal head is just missing from the game. That is why the repeater also does not have 1000 Hz magnet. The following 500 Hz correctly zwangs the train, but it can do little for trains that are worse than R+Mg.

Yet another game-breaking bug that DTG never bothered to fix.

 

Unfortunately signalling appears to be v hard to fix once the route is released to us. Therefore, care needs to be taken by the devs that the signalling is up to snuff prior to release. We still have signalling issues in Midland Mainline for example, even after a decent and significant update.

 

That's part of the TSW problem. Timetables are built around flawed and unfinished signalling. You patch the signals, you risk breaking the timetable. Too much effort that doesn't pay for the devs.

 

I remembered this video from a very similar situation, if you want to see how hopeless is 500 Hz vs freight trains. For the brake curves to work effectively, the 1000 Hz has to be there first

 

Had the same going from bremen direction oldenburg in one of the freight loops to hude. Surprising hp0 + sh1, but saw it after the right curve and pulled the emergency brake. Fun situation as no hud driver .

Even Salzburg Rosenheim has a few of thoae sections..

On most german routes i had this at least once. I prevent it with early breaking on my target destinations.

 

Lucky the path was still set and was a "minor" thing.

 

Oh gosh again a discussion about team Red or team Blue.... And what is better! We in the Netherlands say "The grass looks always more green by the neighbours" i hope that will fill this discussion that leeds to no noting. Small tip... Buy both of them test it and have fun and enjoy both good and bad sides.

 

No need to disturb a discussion on a technical level because you don't like it. You're not a moderator.

 

Sorry we live in a free world and people can give a opinion and its not beyond borders. You can not prevent me from writing here! And no im not a moderator and you the same. So look in the mirror before you complaining about something. Otherwise use the button to contact the real moderator team

 

You started complaining, not me. Is it so hard to move on and don't leave a derailing comment if you don't like a topic, which is signalling and timetables? There's something to learn in here.

I suggest you just click "unwatch thread" if it annoys you, but let the others discuss. Trying to dismiss a discussion between various members, in a much more mature way than your comment, just because you don't like it is fairly inappropriate.

 

feel you man

happened to me a couple times

in general, yeah, in TSW it can be sometimes very hard to discern if sth is a bug or a feature, even more because most of us are not IRL engineers/loco drivers and loco manuals arent exactly floating around the internet to make sure

 

Is Zusi ever on sale?
Edit: I see it’s 20% off right now in fact.

 

As far as I understood it should actually be possible to add this advanced signal with the official editor. I had a discussion with someone at some point if this would not be possible. It was never really confirmed but this person seemed positive that you could place the signal and somehow script it into the existing set up of the main signal.

I have absolutely no idea if any of this is possible even remotely. Maybe someone from the community with more knowledge could make a more robust explanation around this?!

Especially this specific missing advanced signal as described in this thread has caught me out in the past as well and it really is annoying! I simply do not understand why DTG is not fixing stuff like this!

 

Distant signal is not a "real" signal that would affect the flow of trains in schedule in any way, the simulation does not care about its existence as AI trains know what the main signal shows anyway and calculate brake curves just for that. So adding it should be fairly easy, but it likely requires recompiling/rebaking the whole route after you are finished with (any) edits.

DTG Matt DTG Lukas This is probably worth your attention. TLDR: Uhlerborn station is missing distant signal heads for following Self-blocking signal 16 on exit signals towards Heidesheim on LFR. This causes unavoidable SPADs on any service or scenario where you closely follow previous train, because you will not get any information about oncoming stop aspect.

 

This... Everytime when there is some "core" patch, most fixes are "scenario XY is finally doable", but missing/wrong signals are the biggest problem of this game. Sometimes it looks like it is big problem just to add missing speed sign (or change number on it) as we can see on most of routes.

 

Not sure what the historic low is, but generally I think 20% off is about the most you’ll get. Quite pricey but offset by the fact additional content is added free of charge, though I’m not sure what has been released recently.

Just bear in mind, that although a serious simulation beats at the heart of Zusi 3, it is not plug and play or user friendly as TSW or even TSC to get there.

 

May I suggest downloading ZUSIBU? This aims to combine the good features of TSW (customizable gamification) with the good features of Zusi (realism).

https://gverkade.home.xs4all.nl/ZUSIBU

I wrote it for myself, but as it might be useful to others too, I have put it online with a version number and everything. No install though.

 

Have you tried the revamped Linke Rheinstrecke on Railsim for Train Simulator Classic with a decent Expert Loco? That should give a good experience with better graphics than Zusi.

 

I gave up with TSC, because everytime I downloaded new scenario packs I would have to go around chasing hundreds of consists to make it work. I must have spent a fortune buying stuff that I would only see as AI so that I could use a certain Scenario Pack from 3DZug or similar.

I just had another go with TSW (as MSFS2020 was not working due to server problems.................again). I drove the flixtrain northbound from Frankfurt to Fulda. As I left the first LZB area, it did not revert to PZB, so I kept getting LZB signalling even though there was no LZB signalling there.

Then I switched to a Southbound ICE tilting train. At about KM60 I got a Zwangsbremsung for no apparent reason. I replayed and got the same Zwangsbremsung at the same place. No speed reduction signal, or Vorsignal.

Then I switched to the new over Shap route. Fired it up, but the Class 47 seems to have the DSD (Sifa) tied to the AWS key instead of the DSD key configurable in the keybinding. So you have to press the same key for AWS and DSD............

Back to Zusi...................

 

If Zusi had a save function... It would be train sim paradise.

 

Zusis operational realism should have been the benchmark for TSWs signalling engine.

 

Yes, I really hope DTG can implement a better signalling engine that can cope with random AI delays, TSR's, even platform changes. Going to be difficult I think, but will be a game changer. I just find myself getting bored with TSW a bit too easily these days, so many green light runs even with busier routes such as WCMLS. Always nice to have adverse signalling at some points, just to keep the interest up.

 

I keep looking at Zusi and think I should give it a try. I still use PZB helper in TSW so I probably need to learn German signalling properly first.

I do look at the graphics and wonder if I would get fed up with them after being spoilt with TSW.

Not having a save game at all also seems odd.

Train Planet looked like it could have been promising but it seems to have gone quiet.

 

Operationally Zusi is on a different level. If you can manage PZB and Sifa in TSW then it's manageable in Zusi. Why TSW is built on if the train moves then that will do operational model I don't know but Zusi is worth the downsides of dated graphics and no save IMHO.

 

The excuse for Zusi not having a save game ranges from it being too complex with all the trains running (other sims manage reasonably okay), it’s an affront to being a piece of professional training software in its other iteration, to Gordon Gecko “save games are for wimps”, school of thought. However with some runs in excess of two hours, badly needed.